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2in Mopar lift concerns! (Solved)

Remorseless

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The subject is DW, which is at the very end of line as far as failures go, as in it doesn't get any worse than that. Complete failure of a tie rod, although terrifying, is not as bad as DW.
The very first place you look when DW is in play is caster as it is the cause of DW.
Your assertion that excessive toe is somehow at fault is false. Toe in or out should be 1/16th of an inch, and it doesn't matter which, but it should never be zero.

To be clear control arms and wear on their related bushings and/or end joints will cause caster to go out of spec. However, nothing you can do in your garage can measure that unless you happen to have an alignment rack.

If you have adjustable control arms you can assure, via measuring tape, that the tops are the same length, and that the lowers are both the same length, but those measurements do not indicate caster, or account for discrepancies in the wheel ends.

Worn ball joints typically manifest themselves as camber problems, not caster problems. That's why checking ball joint wear is done by pushing and pulling the top or bottom of the tire, and not trying to make the knuckle move forwards and backwards. Really worn, as in almost worn out, ball joints will certainly lend themselves to caster error.

Furthermore, simply tightening up components without a means of measuring change as you do so has the potential to cause worse or additional problems.
A front end is not one system as you suggest. It is two systems. One makes it go straight, and one makes it turn. They are not mutually dependent on each other although they do work in concert with each other.

DW in a JK or JL Jeep comes down to one measurement that is not within spec. Caster.
Why caster is not within spec is a subsequent, yet different, discussion.
Bump steer can be a product of toe, camber, and/or caster, but bump steer is not DW.
Steering geometry is generally not a DIY project.
I definitely agree that caster is one of the first things you check, but it is not always the singular cause of DW. In general, my assertion is not that there is one singular cause of death wobble and it is toe - this is certainly not at all what I've asserted - but rather my assertion is that death wobble - which is an uncontrolled oscillation of the front axle components - can be caused by multiple components being either worn or incorrectly installed, and the behavior influenced by multiple other components, of which toe is one and of which caster is one. DW hasn't got a singular cause.

FWIW, you can roughly measure caster in your own garage as a layman without access to an alignment rack - Dana axle specifications specify that the vertical plane of the diff casing (most folks use the flats on the face of the differential housing, plug weld locations I believe, but machined flat), is ~6.0* off of the ball joint axis in the Cs - giving you 6* of caster built into the axle, physically. The realized caster will change due to the positioning of the axle and control arms at ride height, but is how the axle is assembled. So, using an angle finder on the flat on the face of the differential housing, you can calculate your caster - at least roughly.

Toe spec is between 0.05* and 0.35*, all positive, so technically only toe in. JLs are within spec from 1/8" to 1/16"-in by most recommendations. Mainly it's when running larger than OEM tires that aftermarket steering companies recommend 1/16"-out, with an absolute maximum of 1/8" toe out.

I would like to point out that I also never said just tighten things up - just to check that bushings are at torque spec. Ensuring things are at factory torque specifications - or aftermarket torque specifications, if an aftermarket component - is generally good advice that I will stand by. Not saying to crush it down, or to make adjustments to adjustable components - but just make sure the attachments to the frame and axle are at the appropriate torque spec for the part, per the manufacturer. And if it's a rubber bushing, make sure that the torquing was done at ride height with the weight of the vehicle on the suspension so that you're not binding the bushing. A rubber bushing on a control arm or trackbar that is entering and exiting bushing bind throughout suspension travel can cause death wobble.

I definitely also stand by the one system statement. Some components in the front end locate the axle laterally, some vertically, and some locate the wheels/tires relative to the axle throughout the steering arc, but it's all one system designed to keep the axle under the Jeep and allow you to steer and keep angles appropriate at the same time.

At the end of the day though, I think you're too hung up on caster. Caster is important - not arguing that, in fact if you look at my original post you'll find that I specifically called it out as a point to validate - but caster is not the be all end all of death wobble. My original post to point out that I did call out caster:

Can be caused by a multitude of things:

Worn bushings
Worn ball joints
Improperly torqued bolts through bushings
Improper caster setting
Improper toe setting
Worn out rod ends
Wallowed out frame/axle brackets
Wallowed out knuckles

I'm sure there's some I forgot in there too

People need to know that rubber bushings must be torqued at ride height so that they don't do something like torque their axle end trackbar bushings while it's in the air and cause wild horizontal oscillations when they're constantly entering and exiting bushing bind driving down the street - causing, ya know, death wobble (and death wobble without impact to caster I might add, just binding and releasing of lateral axle movement, is a common issue with freshly installed suspensions). They need to know that exceeding the recommended toe-in spec can cause oscillations, yes that bad caster can cause oscillations, that wore out bushings can allow enough slop to allow oscillations, etc, etc. Focusing in on only caster doesn't check all of those other things that can cause death wobble.
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AcesandEights

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I said it earlier, but improper caster causes death wobble. It's the singular reason death wobble exists; however, it doesn't mean there aren't other things wrong.
 

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I said it earlier, but improper caster causes death wobble. It's the singular reason death wobble exists; however, it doesn't mean there aren't other things wrong.
It is 100% possible to have death wobble with caster being in spec. A loose trackbar or worn out trackbar bushing is one of the best examples of this, as caster would not change. Definitely agree that improper caster can cause death wobble, but it's definitely not the only reason it happens.
 

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It is 100% possible to have death wobble with caster being in spec. A loose trackbar or worn out trackbar bushing is one of the best examples of this, as caster would not change. Definitely agree that improper caster can cause death wobble, but it's definitely not the only reason it happens.
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Caster changes as the suspension cycles.
 

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Caster changes as the suspension cycles.
Yes, it does - that is very true, but appropriate caster at ride height is what matters for death wobble, particularly since the discussion is about driving down the street where you're generally only partially compressing/extending the suspension. On the street at ride height is also where death wobble is generally a concern. Nobody's really out there hitting whoops at 80MPH on the interstate to trigger death wobble from marginal caster at full suspension extension during rebound (caster will increase, generally, as the suspension compresses, and caster will decrease during extension)...
 
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I’ll say this and leave it at this,

1. The OP needs to go back to the installer and get it fixed.
2. I wish @Remorseless and @Yogi would open a shop together, because they both have great knowledge of the subject at hand. Just different approaches, which in my opinion would make a great service team.
 

kah.mun.rah

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It is 100% possible to have death wobble with caster being in spec. A loose trackbar or worn out trackbar bushing is one of the best examples of this, as caster would not change. Definitely agree that improper caster can cause death wobble, but it's definitely not the only reason it happens.
I agree. In my experience (which I realize differs from Jeep to Jeep) DW has been when there are issues with my trackbar connection and bump steer has been from bad caster.
 

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2. I wish @Remorseless and @Yogi would open a shop together, because they both have great knowledge of the subject at hand. Just different approaches, which in my opinion would make a great service team.
Oh man, I've thought about it, but no way I could handle the decisions some folks make. "Sir, your death wobble was 100% caused by your angry grille. I'm gonna have to ask you to trust me on this."
 

Beachcomber72

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Oh man, I've thought about it, but no way I could handle the decisions some folks make. "Sir, your death wobble was 100% caused by your angry grille. I'm gonna have to ask you to trust me on this."
True that, but you both seem very very knowledgeable about the subject and I’d personally drive far to come to a shop where the people are knowledgeable and expressed hardened concern to address an issue.

Most current dealerships/independent shops have lost that aspect of the service industry.
 

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I agree. In my experience (which I realize differs from Jeep to Jeep) DW has been when there are issues with my trackbar connection and bump steer has been from bad caster.
Yeah, bump steer and caster has always been my nemesis. I know better, but I'm cheap and lazy on control arms and push it a bit sometimes on caster the later I get into a build and I start swapping out parts to "see how I like it temporarily".
 

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True that, but you both seem very very knowledgeable about the subject and I’d personally drive far to come to a shop where the people are knowledgeable and expressed hardened concern to address an issue.

Most current dealerships/independent shops have lost that aspect of the service industry.
Appreciate the kind words, and definitely agree at the current state of shops most places these days.
 

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Oh man, I've thought about it, but no way I could handle the decisions some folks make. "Sir, your death wobble was 100% caused by your angry grille. I'm gonna have to ask you to trust me on this."
The weight of the excess amount of ducks on your dash was causing a weird binding in your steering causing your shimmy.
 

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