Drag Link Loose?

[nh4x4jeep]

Does this look right?
Is this normal for a 2018 stock JL?


Thx!

~ Jon

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[GhostActual762]

Thats not good at all. Is there a gap between the nut and top of the hub assembly? That is a tapered “bolt” and should not be under any circumstances loose. Are you having steering issues? IE: loose steering/wandering/shimming/deathwobble?

 

[californiajeeping]

Does this look right?
Is this normal for a 2018 stock JL?


Thx!

~ Jon

Mine does that too and I checked another JL and it did as well. Here are some existing posts saying it is normal. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...has-play-and-drifts.3691/page-157#post-486247

 

[GhostActual762]

Mine does that too and I checked another JL and it did as well. Here are some existing posts saying it is normal. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...has-play-and-drifts.3691/page-157#post-486247

I was under the impression that tierods should have some play in them(twisting movement) but an audible clunk and measurable movement is never good in any steering component as it will lead to very poor performace. A 1/4”(tie rod) of movement at one end could mean 4” at the other end(steering wheel). With all of these JL steering issues maybe there’s a bad batch of tierods? Just waiting for the OP to tell us if he has steering issues or not. If not then i guess that crazyness is “just a fca thing” because i’ve never seen anything like that before on a new vehicle.

 

[HiJinx69]

Does this look right?
Is this normal for a 2018 stock JL?


Thx!

~ Jon

Is that oil on your steering stabilizer? Leak?

 

[nh4x4jeep]

..Thanks everyone for responding so quickly! We had 6" snow with temps under 10 degrees last night, so I haven't been able to get back under there yet to check the ball joints.

@GhostActual762 - I took it to the dealer and showed this to them. They said that was "Normal". I'm still skeptical, though.
>>Are you having steering issues? IE: loose steering/wandering/shimming/deathwobble?

Yes/Yes/Yes/Not Full-on DW, but very disturbing, the whole Jeep rattles loudly for up to 30 seconds after hitting an expansion joint!
I went out last night and checked it again before the snow and followed the components as in PLANMAN's videos. There is a definite thunkng SOUND and a visible looseness to the drag link. When I had my wife turn the wheel, I didn't see any visible play, but I'll check it again lifted on a jack once the weather improves. It was a high of 14 yesterday. :-( I can definitely feel the thunk closest to the wheel on the end of the drag link all the way up to pitman arm. There is no clunk in the tie rod. No, it's definitely NOT an FCA thing!

@californiajeeping - Thanks for the link!
Sorry, I've read so many posts, my brain is full! I presume you had some of the issues above?? You said that your Jeep's Drag link was loose too. Was it still loose after the shop tightened everything? Were you ball joints OK?

@HiJinx69 - NICE CATCH! Yes, the steering stabilizer was visibly leaking! I took it to the dealer and had it replaced under:
Steering Shimmy / Wobble - Steering Stabilizer Failure, Date Code 257 or Less
(Case # S1819000004) - November 2018
FWIW, my factory original stabilizer date code was X165MB.
The loose steering/wandering improved by a small margin, but it did not affect the shimmering/deathwobble. The more I drive it, though the looser the steering is becoming.

 

[californiajeeping]

My drag link still makes the thunking sound after they torqued everything to spec. My JL is no longer wandering and doesn't have loose steering. I'm 99.9% that it is normal for the drag link to do that based on my research. You might want to do a poll type post and ask everyone to check if their drag link is loose and makes that sound. It would be a good idea to include your video to demonstrate (shorter version perhaps as most will think it is too long to watch it) and ask them if they have any steering issues as well. So the poll would be something like this:

Q: Does your drag link move and make sounds like the one in this video? (allow multiple check boxes so they can choose more than one)
Option Answer 1: Yes my drag link does that too.
Option Answer 2: No my drag link does not do that.
Option Answer 3: My JL has steering issues.
Option Answer 4: My JL does NOT have steering issues.

 

[nh4x4jeep]

I found this video this morning:


"Original customer complaint was that by simply grabbing them, the steering components rocked back and forth"
"Steering Stabilizer is NOT a fix for Death Wobble"

He explains how the ball joints wear out and get looser over time. Everything should be stiff. As Ghostactual762 said, I did see in one video that that said that a slight twisting motion in the tie rods was normal.
It's cold and snowy out, so it's hard to get under the Jeep, but I have a bunch of things to check now.

 

[GhostActual762]

With a lot of these issues stemming from mutiple parts in the steering. Loose tie rod ends, known steering box issues, track bar bracket...ect it’s not going to be easy to fix I don’t think unless everything is changed out with new parts.

That “loose” tierod was on the passenger side correct? If so what does the other side do and does it feel like it’s pushing back down when you let pressure off of it?(like a spring)
Does the ends of the drag link do this also?(pitman arm to knuckle)


For a long time now that kind of movement and clunk would 100% indicate a worn out joint, unless fca is using some new design thats spring loaded and with a weak spring lol.

Usually these parts have a spherical end which is either coated in a polymer or ride in a cup made of polymer(to obsorb energy that is put through the whole steering system) and the other end is a tappered shaft with threads at the end to secure it into the pitman arm, knuckles....ect. If those coatings or cups are out of spec it will be loose and clunk. Again unless they reengineered the tierod ends they should be very similar.

Taking the word of anyone at the dealership unless you know them personally, is not a good idea for a customer because most places would rather not have to fix a vehicle under warranty as they don’t make any money, yes they get paid but they’de rather have someone out of warranty that has to pay shop fees and upmark on the parts. Thats why they usually give you shit when you bring them the correct oem part to change as they can’t charge you their price for it and if all their bays are full of warranty work the customer out of warranty might taje their vehicle to someplace else.

Edit: check those balljoints too, lift one tire off the ground and lower it very slowly and use as much light as you can to see if there is any lateral movement in either balljoint, a little bit(1/16”) of up and down is ok. If there is any side to side jack it all the way up and grab the top and bottom of the tire and push/pull.

 

[GhostActual762]

Nvm that is the draglink lmao

 

[californiajeeping]

I found the product description bulleted items in this Synergy MFG drag link VERY interesting. I'm tempted to try this as it seems all drag links "flop" when you pull up on it. That can't be good and most JL owners are saying they all have the play in it, but no one knows if that is a good or bad design. But still, this is interesting. Maybe it will fix the 2 inch steering wheel play issue?

https://www.synergymfg.com/synergy-jeep-jl-heavy-duty-drag-link-kit.html

• Increased tubing wall thickness improves drag link strength and steering feel. Offers a more direct connection to the road/trail compared to stock.
• Bar is fully welded, unlike the crimped OEM design.
• Pitman arm side tie rod end is a single plane design to eliminate unwanted drag link flop. Drastically simplifies installation and only allows necessary degree of movement.
• No factory drag link components need to be reused.
• Includes Synergy HD Metal on Metal Tie Rod Ends with a Single Plane version at the pitman arm side to completely eliminate Drag Link Flop.
• Drag Link is CNC formed from 1.5 inch x .250 wall DOM tubing
• Both ends of the bar use pinch bolts instead of jam nuts to simplify installation and adjustment

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

I found the product description bulleted items in this Synergy MFG drag link VERY interesting. I'm tempted to try this as it seems all drag links "flop" when you pull up on it. That can't be good and most JL owners are saying they all have the play in it, but no one knows if that is a good or bad design. But still, this is interesting. Maybe it will fix the 2 inch steering wheel play issue?

https://www.synergymfg.com/synergy-jeep-jl-heavy-duty-drag-link-kit.html

• Increased tubing wall thickness improves drag link strength and steering feel. Offers a more direct connection to the road/trail compared to stock.
• Bar is fully welded, unlike the crimped OEM design.
• Pitman arm side tie rod end is a single plane design to eliminate unwanted drag link flop. Drastically simplifies installation and only allows necessary degree of movement.
• No factory drag link components need to be reused.
• Includes Synergy HD Metal on Metal Tie Rod Ends with a Single Plane version at the pitman arm side to completely eliminate Drag Link Flop.
• Drag Link is CNC formed from 1.5 inch x .250 wall DOM tubing
• Both ends of the bar use pinch bolts instead of jam nuts to simplify installation and adjustment

They state the same for the tie rod but include this statement

“Single plane tie rod end used to eliminate unwanted tie rod flop and prevent the steering deadspot encountered with hydro assist setups. Simplifies installation and only allows necessary degree of movement of the bar.”

Could just be marketing hype.

https://www.synergymfg.com/synergy-jeep-jl-heavy-duty-tie-rod.html?category_id=4980

 

[californiajeeping]

They state the same for the tie rod but include this statement

“Single plane tie rod end used to eliminate unwanted tie rod flop and prevent the steering deadspot encountered with hydro assist setups. Simplifies installation and only allows necessary degree of movement of the bar.”

Could just be marketing hype.

https://www.synergymfg.com/synergy-jeep-jl-heavy-duty-tie-rod.html?category_id=4980

Good point. Does your drag link flop and make that sound, like in the video from the OP?

 

[Moto_21]

They state the same for the tie rod but include this statement

“Single plane tie rod end used to eliminate unwanted tie rod flop and prevent the steering deadspot encountered with hydro assist setups. Simplifies installation and only allows necessary degree of movement of the bar.”

Could just be marketing hype.

https://www.synergymfg.com/synergy-jeep-jl-heavy-duty-tie-rod.html?category_id=4980

Id agree with thier statement. I have two videos i posted that show small movements with the steering wheel you can see the draglink flex before it engages the tie rods and wheels. Its creating a deadspot in my steering wheel.

 

[nh4x4jeep]

@GhostActual762 said: "With a lot of these issues stemming from mutiple parts in the steering. Loose tie rod ends, known steering box issues, track bar bracket...ect it’s not going to be easy to fix I don’t think unless everything is changed out with new parts."

You said exactly what I've been thinking and becoming concerned about. The dealer replaces the steering stabilizer, but unbeknownst to you other components are damaged. They may not show it yet, but they may be damaged and may wear prematurely. This causes the problem to happen again damaging all the other components to some degree. By that time, your warranty has expired and you are faced with replacing all your ball joints and your steering stabilizer. Perhaps you've also damaged your steering box too. Maybe the holes in your drag link and tie rod have become oblongated. If that's the case you may have so damaged both knuckles too.

I don't have the cash to replace all my ball joints, much less my entire steering system! Not should I have to do this!

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