Help identifying noise, spyder gears bad?

[roaniecowpony]

M

Buying a bronco carrier would require rechecking backlash and pinion depth anyways right? At that point might as well get something like an OX locker unless I am wrong. I ordered the sensor kit if that doesn't fix my locker I might give that actuator hack a try only if I am 100% sure that there is no mechanical issues with my differential.

It was working before dropping it off at the shop so they either installed something wrong or my sensor got oil and metal particles on it causing it to malfunction. I did check for noise on the gears and the two gears I can see look good as new (video). When rotating the tire they sound good. But halfway through the video if I rotate the tires back and forth quickly I hear like a clunky noise. I am not sure if that's normal or not. Thanks.

Link:

There's always some good amount of backlash in the spider gears, because you are dealing with 4 separate gears. They should rotate smoothly with perceptable feel (when turning the axle flange by hand without the wheels on) of teeth meshing because they are straight cut bevel gears.

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On the lockers, you have some big choices to make.

All the aftermarket locker diff carriers, that I'm aware of for the Rubicon axle housings (OX, Eaton, ARB) require changing from the OEM 32 spline axles to larger 35 spline axles. Read their literature carefully and you can call OX and they'll help. So, you spend $1200-1500 on the locker diff carrier, then whatever 35 spline axles go for, which IIRC was $1k + as well.

If you decide to keep the OE size locker diff carrier, and need a replacement, again, Jeep doesn't sell the diff carrier below the axle assembly. The Bronco carrier I showed (Dana-Spicer 10039946) is a direct replacement. Same part. I have one right next to me as I type this. It runs from about $460 to 700 depending on where you get it.

If your locker actuator (solenoid coil) is bad and you need a replacement, Jeep doesn't offer this part for sale at any assembly level below the entire axle assembly, flange to flange. You either have to find a used one or retrofit in something else. I found that the Bronco Raptor (and other high trims) used the M220 Advantek in slightly different configurations, and the Bronco actuator coil worked when my locker actuator died and I was already heavily invested in my 32 spline chromoly axles. You simply need to change the connector to match the JL and add a Z-Automotive JL Sensor jumper. If you want to look into this route further, I can provide more detail to help you through this route. It's really pretty simple, but finding the connector was a easter egg hunt. Fortunately for you, I have a lot of them.

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[Jahernandez90]

There's always some good amount of backlash in the spider gears, because you are dealing with 4 separate gears. They should rotate smoothly with perceptable feel (when turning the axle flange by hand without the wheels on) of teeth meshing because they are straight cut bevel gears.

---------------------------------------------
On the lockers, you have some big choices to make.

All the aftermarket locker diff carriers, that I'm aware of for the Rubicon axle housings (OX, Eaton, ARB) require changing from the OEM 32 spline axles to larger 35 spline axles. Read their literature carefully and you can call OX and they'll help. So, you spend $1200-1500 on the locker diff carrier, then whatever 35 spline axles go for, which IIRC was $1k + as well.

If you decide to keep the OE size locker diff carrier, and need a replacement, again, Jeep doesn't sell the diff carrier below the axle assembly. The Bronco carrier I showed (Dana-Spicer 10039946) is a direct replacement. Same part. I have one right next to me as I type this. It runs from about $460 to 700 depending on where you get it.

If your locker actuator (solenoid coil) is bad and you need a replacement, Jeep doesn't offer this part for sale at any assembly level below the entire axle assembly, flange to flange. You either have to find a used one or retrofit in something else. I found that the Bronco Raptor (and other high trims) used the M220 Advantek in slightly different configurations, and the Bronco actuator coil worked when my locker actuator died and I was already heavily invested in my 32 spline chromoly axles. You simply need to change the connector to match the JL and add a Z-Automotive JL Sensor jumper. If you want to look into this route further, I can provide more detail to help you through this route. It's really pretty simple, but finding the connector was a easter egg hunt. Fortunately for you, I have a lot of them.

So judging by the video, do you think my spyders are good? Really good information you provided there with the bronco carrier solution. So OX does make 32 spline lockers. The Z automotive sensor bypass was my first attempt at solving the locker issue. Plugged it in, nothing. Then I ordered two sensors from Ebay. Little did I know that Mopar sells a 5 sensor kit for a reason.. YOU HAVE TO TEST ALL 5 AND ONLY ONE WILL WORK. So with my luck, I tried the two random sensors and nothing happened. If the Kit doesn't fix it I guess it's time to consider the bronco actuator. And I will definitely contact you about the connector.

If I were to purchase the carrier. Can I use the current carrier bearings and shims? Or does it ship with bearings and everything? The backlash shouldn't be so bad that it will destroy my ring and pinion when driving 12 miles to the shop, so they can adjust the backlash for me the right way.

 

[azwjowner]

If I were to purchase the carrier. Can I use the current carrier bearings and shims? Or does it ship with bearings and everything? The backlash shouldn't be so bad that it will destroy my ring and pinion when driving 12 miles to the shop, so they can adjust the backlash for me the right way.

No, you should put new bearings because they wear in a particular pattern. (Shims don't matter new or used but they tend to get bent on repeated use). The carrier won't come with any of this. You will need to buy new bearings. I absolutely would not drive 1 foot without backlash set properly. I have replaced carriers and let me tell you, there's no guarantee that the new carrier will have anywhere near the same backlash. You will destroy (or drastically shorten the life) of your gears.

It doesn't even make sense to separate it like this because the shop will have to repeatedly remove the carrier to set backlash anyway. It makes no sense to try to swap carriers yourself and then have the shop set backlash.

 

[roaniecowpony]

So judging by the video, do you think my spyders are good? Really good information you provided there with the bronco carrier solution. So OX does make 32 spline lockers. The Z automotive sensor bypass was my first attempt at solving the locker issue. Plugged it in, nothing. Then I ordered two sensors from Ebay. Little did I know that Mopar sells a 5 sensor kit for a reason.. YOU HAVE TO TEST ALL 5 AND ONLY ONE WILL WORK. So with my luck, I tried the two random sensors and nothing happened. If the Kit doesn't fix it I guess it's time to consider the bronco actuator. And I will definitely contact you about the connector.

If I were to purchase the carrier. Can I use the current carrier bearings and shims? Or does it ship with bearings and everything? The backlash shouldn't be so bad that it will destroy my ring and pinion when driving 12 miles to the shop, so they can adjust the backlash for me the right way.

The carrier is bare, no bearings or locker actuator. You'll need to buy new bearings and a shim kit. Bearings need to be pressed on. The locker actuator and actuator plate and spacer need to be slid on before the bearing is pressed on that side.

 

[azwjowner]

Before you buy an OX locker, you need to call them and verify that their 32 spline will fit a Rubicon.

By all accounts, aftermarket lockers, even 32 spline, are designed for Sport owners with the same M220 axle who want to add a locker. But the Rubicon has different length axles than a Sport, so if you put one of these aftermarket lockers in a Rubicon axle, it doesn't fit. Read:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/cannot-buy-a-rear-locker-for-jlur.116287/post-2444300

 

[Jahernandez90]

No, you should put new bearings because they wear in a particular pattern. (Shims don't matter new or used but they tend to get bent on repeated use). The carrier won't come with any of this. You will need to buy new bearings. I absolutely would not drive 1 foot without backlash set properly. I have replaced carriers and let me tell you, there's no guarantee that the new carrier will have anywhere near the same backlash. You will destroy (or drastically shorten the life) of your gears.

It doesn't even make sense to separate it like this because the shop will have to repeatedly remove the carrier to set backlash anyway. It makes no sense to try to swap carriers yourself and then have the shop set backlash.

You are right I was thinking that I would save some money that way but not really. Why risk it and cause a bigger issue. Just thought that since it's the same carrier it shouldn't change the backlash drastically. Thanks.

 

[Vinman]

Did you try running it without the rear driveshaft installed?

 

[roaniecowpony]

This video will give you all the sequence of dissassembly and reassembly.

 

[Maverick909]

save your self some headache and prove whats not wrong to find out what it wrong.... pull the rear drive shaft. It takes 10 mins to do. put it in 4 hi and drive down the street and back and see if you get the same noise. if nothing please pull the rear disc off and inspect the rear drum E brake. for failed brake shoe or mud/dirt in it. both are very simple things to check

 

[Jahernandez90]

Did you try running it without the rear driveshaft installed?

I will try that this weekend. This will sound dumb but it being rwd how you I make the tries spin? Jack the rear axle without the rear driveshaft?

 

[roaniecowpony]

One thing you can do without disassembling anything, is just chock the wheels, put it in neutral, crawl under it and grab the flange on the pinion and turn and move it around to see if the pinion bearings are tight. It woundn't be the first time a pinion nut has backed off and put a lot of play in the pinion bearings, causeing bad meshing of the ring and pinion.

 

[Jahernandez90]

save your self some headache and prove whats not wrong to find out what it wrong.... pull the rear drive shaft. It takes 10 mins to do. put it in 4 hi and drive down the street and back and see if you get the same noise. if nothing please pull the rear disc off and inspect the rear drum E brake. for failed brake shoe or mud/dirt in it. both are very simple things to check

Didnt know I could drive without the rear driveshaft well obviously not on 2wd. Although the mechanic inspected the brakes and driveshaft he probably did a stationary inspection not a test drive. Thanks for the advice.

 

[vtejada]

Interested in what your solution was for this as having a very similar problem with our 2020 wrangler. Come from off roading, first started as a clicking like a rock in the tire. Then the roar from the rear end. Everything has been checked and nothing is wrong from what we are seeing.

 

[Ratbert]

Interested in what your solution was for this as having a very similar problem with our 2020 wrangler. Come from off roading, first started as a clicking like a rock in the tire. Then the roar from the rear end. Everything has been checked and nothing is wrong from what we are seeing.

By "nothing is wrong" you mean you haven't yet tracked down the "something is definitely wrong" issue, right?

 

[vtejada]

By "nothing is wrong" you mean you haven't yet tracked down the "something is definitely wrong" issue, right?

correct, we have tore the rear apart 4 times, inspected the gears, pinion, alignment, all correct, did find the driver side axle shaft had a slight twist to it, replaced that, thought the spyder gears as well, replaced locker, bearings have been changed 4 times, even went as far to change out the housing, still having the issue. It’s only when you let off the gas. The sound can be heard in the rear.

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