The clutch gang!

[KDB]

I'm new here and was very excited to see there was a thread for the manual breed. I have not owned a manual since my old TJ (about 15 years ago) and I was a little nervous about ordering the manual because this won't be my daily driver and I plan on using it off road in the Arizona rock country. Everyone I talked to said to go with the 8-speed auto, literally not one person said anything positive about the manual, but I went with my gut and ordered anyways. I just remembered the fun I had working the gears with the top down, no extra hands to worry about answering the phone or reading a text, just the sound of wind and occupied hands. While I sit in wait in the "JB Freeze" as some call it, I'm not going to lie I am a little nervous hoping that I didn't make a mistake. I'm nervous about the steep rock crawling while working the pedals. Any advice would be appreciated. Cheers!

No worries on the manual in AZ, I drove my manual JK sport S a lot off road when I lived in Phoenix and also in Tripp’s to Moab. When in 4L you can restart (if you do stall it) without pushing in the clutch. If your in 4H you wouldn’t be in any situation where you would be compromised by using the clutch to restart.
And all your have read is true, the JL MT is 100% different and better than the MT in the Jk, apples and oranges.

Welcome back to being a Jeep driver and don’t forget to wave

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[Torero]

My oldest is 16 and he has his permit
So far he's only driven our automatic (a 2004 minivan), but he can't wait to learn to drive the Jeep. Like you, I think teaching kids how to drive a manual is important and cool.

Minivan

 

[Chuck]

My wife and I have owned 12 different vehicles over the years, and only one of them has been an automatic. We both prefer manuals, especially in sports cars and 4WD vehicles.

I like manuals for a variety of reasons, but mostly it comes down to control and the sense of connection to the vehicle. Plus, they’re FUN. But I’m one of those people who actually loves to drive, so I could be biased.

When going uphill at high speeds in the mountains, I don’t like how many automatics keep shifting up and down gears in an attempt to maintain a speed AND maximize economy. Similarly, when driving in snow or off-roading on loose/slick terrain, I don’t like how autos upshift after tire spins, which is often followed by lugging and loss of power and momentum.

When going downhill, whether at highway speeds or crawling in 4 low, I like using compression / engine braking to hold the vehicle at a consistent speed, which also reduces the need to ride your brakes constantly (which can lead to brake failure in extreme cases). Most automatics continue to speed up while going downhill, even if you have your foot off the gas, and even if you use one of those stupid paddle shifters. I rent many cars (i.e., automatics) every year, and even if you select a gear, it never “holds” the car back from accelerating on descents. RPMs just continue to rise until the car is screaming, and in many cases, it will override you and upshift on its own before burning out the engine. IMO, these “manual” shifters in automatics are completely worthless. I just don’t see the purpose in them, but that’s another topic.

Overall, I am really impressed with the manual tranny in the new JL. The throws are just right (i.e., not too long like some trucks); there’s no gear-shifter “wobble” when it’s in gear; and it shifts smoothly and precisely from one gear to another.

As mentioned by others, the clutch engages very close to the bottom, which is different than my Xterra (which is high) or my FR-S (which is somewhere in the middle). That’s not necessarily a good or bad thing, just something to note. The clutch pedal is also fairly easy to depress, which makes it easier on the leg muscles – especially when you’re rowing through stop-and-go traffic.

One surprise I discovered the other day: After being stopped at a light on a steep uphill, I found that when I moved my foot off the brake, the Jeep kept the brakes engaged for a brief period, giving me a chance to move my foot to the gas. So, the system has some sort of auto-brake, which essentially “holds” the Jeep from rolling back. I fancy myself an experienced shifter, so I’m rarely concerned with starting on steep hills, but I think many people will find this feature useful – especially when clueless drivers pull right up behind you on hills.

One complaint I do have is that there’s no room to the left of the clutch pedal for my foot to rest (and I’m not a large/tall person). All of my other vehicles have/had dead pedals or kick plates. In the Wrangler, I have to bend my leg in when it’s not doing any foot work. And if I want to stretch it out while on a long stretch of highway, let’s say, I have to put my foot under and behind the clutch pedal, which isn’t ideal. This isn’t a major problem, though, just me being nitpicky, and I’ve already kind of gotten used to it. I also realize that the lack of foot space probably allows for better wheel well mechanics, articulation, etc., so I’m OK with it.

I could go on and on about why I love manuals – and why I love this new JL – but I think I’ve already rambled on enough for now. Cheers to the Clutch Gang!

 

[Cornfed]

Bought a stick because I wanted my son who will get his learners permit in February to learn. And when he turns 16 I feel like it will force him to be more focused on driving. Also it’s just more bad ass to have a stick.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Minivan

It’s very intentional. The other vehicles are a 2016 GMC Yukon XL and a 2018 Wrangler. He’s not getting behind the wheel of either until he has some hours under his belt. I’ll see how insurance looks, soon. I may sign the title of the minivan over to him and get him his own policy if it’s the cheapest option. (i.e. he won’t be able to drive anything except the van) No 16 year old needs to be behind the wheel of $60k and $40k vehicles, in my opinion. If he doesn’t like driving a 15 year old minivan, he can save his pennies.

Luckily, while he has just a permit, insurance is not an issue. So he will learn to drive stick in my Jeep, and then not get to drive it when licenced. Them’s the breaks! I sure as hell never got to drive a brand new Jeep when I was 16.

 

[spoiledkari]

In the 22 years I've been driving, I've never owned an automatic vehicle. I feel like I have more control in winter driving conditions with a MT. Plus I feel pretty sure that my left foot would get bored if I owned and automatic Jeep.

 

[Grindhouseknives]

.

One surprise I discovered the other day: After being stopped at a light on a steep uphill, I found that when I moved my foot off the brake, the Jeep kept the brakes engaged for a brief period, giving me a chance to move my foot to the gas. So, the system has some sort of auto-brake, which essentially “holds” the Jeep from rolling back. I fancy myself an experienced shifter, so I’m rarely concerned with starting on steep hills, but I think many people will find this feature useful – especially when clueless drivers pull right up behind you on hills.[/QUOTE]

That is the Hill Start Assist. I didn’t know it was standard equipment on the JL either. It definitely was not an option on my 07 JKU with manual everything. It can be turned on and off on the Uconnect under safety. I only use it when I’m towing a loaded trailer.
I got honked at today downtown when the jeep rolled back slightly when the light turned green. I just threw up my hands and drove away!! Doesn’t anyone drive a stick anymore!!

 

[Chuck]

Grindhouseknives, that makes sense. I'm not used to getting any sort of assist when driving -- aside from my wife's verbal commands to let me know I'm about to miss an exit.

Even though I don't need hill start assist, I suppose it's kinda' nice to have. BTW, this feature may be standard on the MT Rubicon, but I don't know if it comes standard on the Sport (AFAIK, Sahara does not come in a manual). That said, no one buys manuals anymore these days, so only about 14 people in America would be concerned with this.

And, yeah, I think most drivers out there just assume that everyone's in an automatic, which is why so many people roll up right behind my rear bumper on steep hills.

 

[Grindhouseknives]

@Chuck - Mine is a Sport S. I’m pretty sure it’s standard on all manual JL’s too bad that’s less than 10% of all JL’s made!!

 

[Chuck]

@Chuck - Mine is a Sport S. I’m pretty sure it’s standard on all manual JL’s too bad that’s less than 10% of all JL’s made!!

Oh, I read your reply wrong. That's cool that it comes standard on all JL manuals!

It's so sad that manuals seem to be going extinct. My dealership said they'd never order a M/T Jeep because they "wouldn't be able to sell it."

Curiously, Europe seems to be the opposite. All the cars I've rented over there have always been manuals (in the right-hand-drive countries, it's odd shifting with your left hand, but at least the gearing is in the same format ... and thank god the clutch is still on the left!). Automatic rentals are rare, and if you find one they cost a premium.

I really hope Jeep continues to offer a manual, because I feel like I may want another one after I wear my current one out. Love it that much already.

 

[Brew211]

No worries on the manual in AZ, I drove my manual JK sport S a lot off road when I lived in Phoenix and also in Tripp’s to Moab. When in 4L you can restart (if you do stall it) without pushing in the clutch. If your in 4H you wouldn’t be in any situation where you would be compromised by using the clutch to restart.
And all your have read is true, the JL MT is 100% different and better than the MT in the Jk, apples and oranges.

Welcome back to being a Jeep driver and don’t forget to wave

Thanks for the reassurance, I am grateful.
Thank you @Torero too.

 

[NavyVet1959]

Curiously, Europe seems to be the opposite. All the cars I've rented over there have always been manuals (in the right-hand-drive countries, it's odd shifting with your left hand, but at least the gearing is in the same format ... and thank god the clutch is still on the left!). Automatic rentals are rare, and if you find one they cost a premium.

I spent a month back in 2016 in the UK and Ireland driving around. It was my first time driving on the wrong side of the road and with the steering wheel on the wrong side of the vehicle. I've got so many decades of driving muscle memory that says that I shift with my right hand, it took a bit to get used to doing it with my left hand over there. I kept reaching for the stick shift with my right hand and hitting the electric window buttons and rolling down the windows instead. We're headed back there in August for another month. I do like the fact that it is possible to rent manual transmission cars over there plus they can be diesel.

I've been driving manual transmission vehicles in one form or another for 50 years, albeit with a few automatics interspersed in there, but I usually had a motorcycle at the same time as those automatics, so it wasn't like I was truly abandoning the manual transmissions. My wife knows how to drive a manual, but she refuses to do it, so I compromised on a couple of the vehicles over the years so that she could supposedly drive the vehicle. As it turned out, she still wouldn't drive the vehicles, so I decided that for this one, I was going with a manual transmission regardless of what she said. Considering my age, how many miles I put on a vehicle each year, and the fact that my last vehicle lasted me for 14 years and only had 88K miles on it when I sold it, I figure that there's a good chance that the JL might be my last vehicle that I will buy before I eventually croak. So, I decided to get a manual since I prefer them so much more than an automatic.

I hate the fact that automatics think they are smarter than you and decide to downshift on hills. Sometimes, I just want to stay in the gear that I'm in and settle for whatever speed that gives me on long hills instead of dropping down a gear and listening to the engine screaming in the next lower gear.

With my own personal style of driving, I find that I get better gas mileage with a manual than with an automatic, even if on that particular vehicle, the fuel economy estimates have the automatic as the same or even slightly higher than the manual.

And in reference to the previous talk about "parking brakes", I have to say that I *hate* the parking brakes that they put on cars these days. I prefer the old style *emergency* brakes instead. And no, they are not the same thing. Parking brakes these days require the electrical system on the vehicle to be working, but emergency brakes consist of mechanical connections, so even with a dead battery, they work. Parking brakes these days are also prevented from being activated while the vehicle is moving, but emergency brakes can be used whenever you want. Also, parking brakes are either ON or OFF whereas emergency brakes can be gradually applied to slow you down and now lock up your tire(s) in the process.

I ordered a pretty base 2-door sport model. I actually *wanted* the steel wheels, manual transmission, manual windows, and no power locks. The only things I added as options was air-conditioning, a hardtop, and the anti-spin rear differential. My price was a bit under $30K before TT&L. I just wish it did not have that stupid keyless ignition system and still had a very basic key that either went in the steering column or on the dash.

I'm thinking that the ESS system will not be as irritating in the manual transmission Sport model, but if I find it irritating, I already had a plan on a way to override it:

https://sites.google.com/site/navyvet1959/vehicles/wrangler-jl-electronic-start-stop

And to add a bit more security to the stupid push button starter, I'm thinking something along this line:

https://sites.google.com/site/navyvet1959/vehicles/wrangler-jl-start-button-security

My first mod though will probably be completely removing the rear seat since I don't need it. Next one will be adding a receiver hitch.

 

[beachbumm78]

I hate it when people roll up right behind my bummer. I'm that person at times---when I had my manual I'd purposefully let my car roll back some (just enough) to freak them out.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I hate it when people roll up right behind my bummer. I'm that person at times---when I had my manual I'd purposefully let my car roll back some (just enough) to freak them out.

The "hill start assist" feature eliminates that anxiety. To be honest, though, I keep toggling that setting. It works beautifully, but I'm not used to it so it feels weird and so I disable it. Then, inevitably, I run into your situation above and think, "If I had that setting on I wouldn't even be thinking about how close that asshat is to my bumper" so I turn it back on. Currently, I have it on and am trying to get used to the feeling.

 

[Chuck]

I hate it when people roll up right behind my bummer. I'm that person at times---when I had my manual I'd purposefully let my car roll back some (just enough) to freak them out.

Ha! Now we can throw it in reverse, then watch their expression on the back-up camera.

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