Ecodiesel Eco-nomics & Issues

[john adams]

I appreciate all the work. The diesel will probably cost me a little more vs the V6 but I like the good MPGs, not because it will save me money, but because I like using less fuel.

I don’t mind a little more regular maintenance and DEF isn’t that big of a deal.

The real reason I picked the JLURD: More fun. (I originally had na order in for the 4xe, which is also very fun to drive but I got concerned about the many issues.)

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[treillw]

Ok then why the wall of text?

No one else can decide really.

Because I think I would enjoy the diesel more, but wanted to get some more input on it.

 

[treillw]

Around here you can get the blue def box at pretty much any station that sells diesel. Walmart and Home Depot carry them too. As somebody mentioned, it does have a shelf life so pay attention to how it’s stored. Inside or outside, and if there is a layer of dust on the boxes.

You’ll probably get a lot of opinions on lift kits. I hear good things about Rock Crawler, but personally put the AEV kit on. To it, I added front and rear adjustable track bars to center the axles. An important item to maintain good handling is either extended or adjustable lower control arms or geometry correction brackets to reuse your existing LCAs.

Definitely interested in picking your brain on the AEV kit, as it is one that I'm considering. I'll send you a link to my other post soon.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Because I think I would enjoy the diesel more, but wanted to get some more input on it.

Yeah, reading back my comment may have sounded snarky wasn't meant to be.

Myself I bought 2020 before I knew they had the diesel out. Got the 3.6 with M6, but no way would I get the 3.6 over the 3.0t. Just so unique and wanted a diesel in a Wrangler for 20+ years.

So I ordered 2022 which should be here in a couple weeks. I have had 2 3.6's a Jk and current JL, good reliable engine. About all the cool factor it has. I get about 15 to 16mpg but I don't really care about overhead cost all that much I drive less than 7500 miles a year since most of my work is from home. I will not save enough in fuel to ever pay for the diesel but oh well not the reason for me buying it. To me I even want it over the 392.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Diesels are very popular in Alaska also. So DEF is in many Chevron's etc. The cost is not significant deterrent to me. The few I know with diesels in Rams etc. have no complaints from CDJR dealers service departments either. But small number.

 

[treillw]

Diesels are very popular in Alaska also. So DEF is in many Chevron's etc. The cost is not significant deterrent to me. The few I know with diesels in Rams etc. have no complaints from CDJR dealers service departments either. But small number.

How are they starting up there in AK? Any issues with the cold?

Thanks.

 

[rickinAZ]

One dip into that endless reserve of Ecodiesel torque and you'll trash the spreadsheets. And...I'm a retired numbers guy.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

How are they starting up there in AK? Any issues with the cold?

Thanks.

No complaints that I know of. My good friend has a 2500 Ram with I think 6.7 diesel. Too big for the garage and he has never complained, too big for his garage and his wife owns it anyway.

Probably plugged in the block heater back in december when we were -10 or worse most of the month. But when we are in the office he always just auto started 10mins before leaving. He has drove diesels for decades no issues that I know of.

Last diesel I owned was 99 Super Duty, it could be a pain sometimes.

 

[GSLSE21B]

Section 179 covers the diesel $$$$$ saved over the gas v6

 

[treillw]

Section 179 covers the diesel $$$$$ saved over the gas v6

Elaborate... haha

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Taxes?

 

[treillw]

You can deduct it somehow?

 

[guarnibl]

I've been reading a ton about the Ecodiesel. Trying to decide between it and the V6. Based on what I see, operation costs between the V6 and Turbo 4 are pretty much the same. I feel that the V6 is the safer bet, because it's time tested and naturally aspirated (less to go wrong in my mind). Initially I thought the Diesel would be cheaper to drive, since it gets better gas mileage. Others have stated high costs for DEF and oil change. I wanted to see how the numbers add up, so I just broke down all the operation costs. Based on my math, the diesel costs about $0.013 more per mile to drive than a V6 or T4 (please check my estimates below and let me know if anything is glaringly wrong). If you are frugal and order mass quantities of oil, DEF, etc when it is on sale, I would think you might be able to get the diesel to cost the same as the gas engines, but never cheaper - unless fuel/gas costs reverse, which can go both ways. So my thoughts on the diesel are it builds more torque and will be more fun to drive, but don't expect it to save you money.
I have a couple of additional questions. What is the cheapest quality oil people are using for the diesel? Are there any cheaper alternative sources for oil filters?

Another noteworthy item is that I'm not seeing a tremendous cost increase for the diesel motor itself. I want an automatic either way and am leaning towards the V6 Etorque. Using the costs on jeep.com I'm seeing that the diesel only costs $1,760 more, however I don't believe this reflects the recent price increases. Using the forum's pricing spreadsheet, I'm seeing the diesel costs $2,760 more. Why are so many people/car review articles saying that the diesel is $4,000 more? Am I missing something??

Further thought process: It will cost a hair more to operate, or if I'm lucky the same. The initial cost for the initial power (motor cost) isn't that bad. So I could justify purchasing it. But then I'm reading about the overheating issues while going over mountains (I live in Montana...), the computer incorrectly calculating how much DEF you have and shutting the engine down in remote locations (I live in Montana), finding DEF in remote locations (did I say I live in Montana?), etc. Just seems like it could be a real pain and princess of a motor to take care of. The reason I want to buy this vehicle is to keep me from getting stranded in my current vehicle in the absolute middle of nowhere with no cell service and a 10 mile minimum walk to the nearest house (who hopefully won't shoot me when I'm knocking their door down at 2am).

The diesel sounds like it could be a ton of fun. But it might be much less of a headache to get the V6. Is Jeep planning on fixing any of these issues, as I'm sure are aware of them? If I'd buy a 2022 and they would fix it, would mine be upgraded based on warranty?

Any advice on which to choose?

Thanks!

		Diesel				Etorque V6/Turbo 4
	Diesel Fuel Cost	3.75	$/gal		Gas Cost	3.34	$/gal
	Combined Diesel Efficiency	25	mpg		Combined Gas Efficiency	21	mpg
	Cost Per Mile	$0.150			Cost Per Mile	$0.159
	DEF Cost	9.6	$/gal
	DEF Efficiency	900	mpg
	Cost Per Mile	$0.011
	Diesel Oil Cost	81	($9/qt)		Oil Cost	23
	Diesel Oil Filter Cost	63	($38 on sale)		Oil Filter Cost	12
	Oil Change Interval	10000			Oil Change Interval	10000
	Cost Per Mile	$0.014			Cost Per Mile	$0.004
	Total Cost Per Mile	$0.175			Total Cost Per Mile	$0.163
			$12.52	more to drive 1000 miles

As others have pointed out, larger tires increases the gap in fuel economy. 37's on a gas motor got me 15-16 highway, diesel gets me 25 mpg. Going 70. Shit I was getting 16-17 going 95.

Also, diesel is 10c more per gallon here than 87 which isn't too bad.

 

[treillw]

Alright, what do I do for a lift if I go with the diesel?

Lots of others are trying to talk me into the XR package, which isn't a diesel option. My other contender is the AEV 2.5" lift. ....seemingly sends you down a black hole of thousands of dollars of other upgrades.

Wish they would do a XR package for the diesel and set it up with the right size gears - maybe it wouldn't overheat.

 

[SolarWizard]

Alright, what do I do for a lift if I go with the diesel?

Lots of others are trying to talk me into the XR package, which isn't a diesel option. My other contender is the AEV 2.5" lift. ....seemingly sends you down a black hole of thousands of dollars of other upgrades.

Wish they would do a XR package for the diesel and set it up with the right size gears - maybe it wouldn't overheat.

the overheating thing is wildly overblown. I’m on 39s with stock gears and I’ve pulled a 5500lb across Arizona in the heat without issue. Lift depends on goals. Buy the Jeep first then figure out your goals

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