Waiting for diesel?

[GARRIGA]

That 3.6 looks pretty good after watching this video.

For me it’s the 2.0. I’m thinking there torque can be increased. My kid’s Subaru puts out 360 HP and don’t recall the torque but it was also increased and there are others who have gotten 600 HP. His was done by modifying exhaust, E85 (I’m not doing that) and tuning. From what I’ve researched the 2.0 has more potential to squeeze extra torque than the 3.6. The eco diesel has the most potential yet already out of the box has more than the other two might ever see. Torque wise. I don’t care too much about HP.

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[#diesel]

This is promising

This is promising.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...e-a-breakthrough-that-can-save-diesel-engines

Very promising indeed!

 

[#diesel]

For me it’s the 2.0. I’m thinking there torque can be increased. My kid’s Subaru puts out 360 HP and don’t recall the torque but it was also increased and there are others who have gotten 600 HP. His was done by modifying exhaust, E85 (I’m not doing that) and tuning. From what I’ve researched the 2.0 has more potential to squeeze extra torque than the 3.6. The eco diesel has the most potential yet already out of the box has more than the other two might ever see. Torque wise. I don’t care too much about HP.

Same sentiments here about torque over HP. I loved the reliability of my 02 VW TDI manual trans (42/49 mph, 200,000 Miles), but that ALH engine wasn’t as complicated as the new diesels. Hate to admit it, but I’m having second thoughts about the 3.0, but I’ve got plenty of time to wait and see.

 

[GARRIGA]

Just finished reading the diesel supplement provided for the Grand Cherokee and feeling more at ease with the DPF. Still need to do more research and read up on the Ram owners having engine issues. All this waiting might have a silver lining in that I can brush up and fully understand my options. I want a diesel so long as it's practical to my application. I really hope it is.

 

[JustinTN]

Guys I would not hold my breath waiting on an EcoDiesel Wrangler nor would Inwant to be one of the first people to buy one. I have a 2015 Grand Cherokee Eco with 25,000 miles. My dad has a 2014 with a little over 100k miles. My wife has a 2014 3.6l gas GC. The EcoDiesel is great... or it can be. We have not had issues with the motor and the torque is nice. However, these motors have an extraordinarily high failure rate of main bearings - to the degree Chrysler has revised the oil specification. In addition, fuel economy has something to be desired on the highway still. The Ecos get 28-30 mpg on the highway but the ‘fix’ to reduce NOx will likely knock that down. In the city, the Eco fuel economy is at best 1-2 mpg better than my wife’s gas 3.6l. To put this into perspective, I can get 30+ mpg out of a gas powered Audi A5 2.0T under similar Highway driving conditions. Vehicle weight is comparable and both are AWD. That begs the question - why manufacture the more expensive diesel?!? It’s a $5,000 option!!!!

In addition resale value on the Ecos is horrendous. I paid a premium for the Eco and it sells at a discount to the gas counterpart - partly because of the emissions, partly because of the catestrophic failures.

Do I like my Jeep? Yes! I have been fortunate to not have any problems and I do not intend to sell it anytime soon because there aren’t many better options on the market in that class (aside from the aforementioned A5 or the more costly Volvo XC90 T8). Would I buy an Eco again in light of the points I have mentioned above? No. I would have kept driving my Supercrew and waited for a better offering to come to the market.

Chrysler has a long way to go in diesel powertrain development and frankly, I don’t think the economics or performance of diesel measure up to hybrid electric options - specifically the Volvo T8 powertrain.

If you buy the Eco, you are paying a premium for a half-baked product that will likely be abandoned in favor of gas-turbo-electric hybrids that out-perform the diesel in every respect and cost less.

 

[GARRIGA]

That sucked

 

[TurboTJ]

For me it’s the 2.0. I’m thinking there torque can be increased. My kid’s Subaru puts out 360 HP and don’t recall the torque but it was also increased and there are others who have gotten 600 HP. His was done by modifying exhaust, E85 (I’m not doing that) and tuning. From what I’ve researched the 2.0 has more potential to squeeze extra torque than the 3.6. The eco diesel has the most potential yet already out of the box has more than the other two might ever see. Torque wise. I don’t care too much about HP.

A turbo engine will always be easier to add horsepower to. That’s just how it works. However, reliability of a turbo (gasoline) engine (especially a Subaru) is very suspect. I was one of the first to turbocharge a TJ and after years of screwing around with it, IMHO a bigger engine or supercharger is a far better option.

Though a platform turbocharged from the factory will be much more reliable, they still have the same heat dissipation, fuel and vibration concerns. Splashing water on your 1600F exhaust manifold while crossing a river never does good things. If your fuel pressure regulator line gets damaged, your gasoline engine will detonate. They are much less robust and much more sensitive to less-than-ideal conditions (e.g. low quality gas, other noises triggering the knock sensor). Add all the hybrid reliability concerns to this and it’s a recipe for disaster.

Time will tell how good the Chrysler 2.0L is but for a Jeep that could have you far away from civilization, I just want something reliable and I can’t imagine this new hybrid engine will be.

 

[SamIam]

I made up my mind and my choice is the gas v-6. The reliability of the Pstar is unquestioned (I own one and had a 2013), which is still in the family. Maybe the impression was the ED was going to be like the old Land Rover Defenders and Toy Land cruisers in Africa and Europe that are still around. But the one thing that got me off the diesel bandwagon is the cost of maintenance and the issues that other GC and Ram owners are having. I want to go cross-country with my wife to Moab and I think the gas v-6 is good enough. I am not doing any heavy rock-crawling or off-roading and this platform with the 8spd transmission is going to be plenty good. Still praying that the green goblins at the EPA get castrated for good so their stupid globalist agendas are no more. We will take care of the environment for we are GOOD stewards of the land. We are becoming energy independent, so there's plenty of gas for all those jeepers out there. Keep on jeep'...

 

[GARRIGA]

A turbo engine will always be easier to add horsepower to. That’s just how it works. However, reliability of a turbo (gasoline) engine (especially a Subaru) is very suspect. I was one of the first to turbocharge a TJ and after years of screwing around with it, IMHO a bigger engine or supercharger is a far better option.

Though a platform turbocharged from the factory will be much more reliable, they still have the same heat dissipation, fuel and vibration concerns. Splashing water on your 1600F exhaust manifold while crossing a river never does good things. If your fuel pressure regulator line gets damaged, your gasoline engine will detonate. They are much less robust and much more sensitive to less-than-ideal conditions (e.g. low quality gas, other noises triggering the knock sensor). Add all the hybrid reliability concerns to this and it’s a recipe for disaster.

Time will tell how good the Chrysler 2.0L is but for a Jeep that could have you far away from civilization, I just want something reliable and I can’t imagine this new hybrid engine will be.

If the 2.0L is left stock then is it still not dependable because it’s a turbo? I’m not wanting to break down mikes from a main road or cell service.

 

[TurboTJ]

If the 2.0L is left stock then is it still not dependable because it’s a turbo? I’m not wanting to break down mikes from a main road or cell service.

A turbo gasoline engine will always be less reliable than the exact same engine without a turbo. They are more sensitive and have more parts that can break/malfunction. Turbo engines in general run higher exhaust gas temperatures, higher oil temperatures, higher fuel pressures, and higher intake/exhaust manifold pressures.

If it’s left stock, it could be decent on reliability. My concern is that this is the first wrangler with this drivetrain and with that, there will always be bugs to work out. Further, Jeeps regularly see harsh environments - hot/cold climates, vibration, water, dirt, mud, sand, etc. You start throwing all this over a turbo engine and hybrid-ish electric drivetrain and I would guess that reliability will suffer.

Non turbo gasoline engines are extremely reliable and this particular engine has a great track record, so I would go with the 3.6 over the 2.0. Jeep could create some miracle of a 2.0 drivetrain, but I’d guess that won’t happen. I would keep it simple with the already proven 3.6L or ecodiesel (based on the feedback of those familiar with the ED).

 

[GARRIGA]

A turbo gasoline engine will always be less reliable than the exact same engine without a turbo. They are more sensitive and have more parts that can break/malfunction. Turbo engines in general run higher exhaust gas temperatures, higher oil temperatures, higher fuel pressures, and higher intake/exhaust manifold pressures.

If it’s left stock, it could be decent on reliability. My concern is that this is the first wrangler with this drivetrain and with that, there will always be bugs to work out. Further, Jeeps regularly see harsh environments - hot/cold climates, vibration, water, dirt, mud, sand, etc. You start throwing all this over a turbo engine and hybrid-ish electric drivetrain and I would guess that reliability will suffer.

Non turbo gasoline engines are extremely reliable and this particular engine has a great track record, so I would go with the 3.6 over the 2.0. Jeep could create some miracle of a 2.0 drivetrain, but I’d guess that won’t happen. I would keep it simple with the already proven 3.6L or ecodiesel (based on the feedback of those familiar with the ED).

What has drawn me to the 2.0 is eTorque available from start and the increase torque at lower rpms. Were it not for the emissions implemented with diesels the ED would be my first choice. Luckily I have a few more months to make my decision. The 2.0 seems like a great compromise between the two other options once all are available.

 

[JLURD]

Guys I would not hold my breath waiting on an EcoDiesel Wrangler nor would Inwant to be one of the first people to buy one. I have a 2015 Grand Cherokee Eco with 25,000 miles. My dad has a 2014 with a little over 100k miles. My wife has a 2014 3.6l gas GC. The EcoDiesel is great... or it can be. We have not had issues with the motor and the torque is nice. However, these motors have an extraordinarily high failure rate of main bearings - to the degree Chrysler has revised the oil specification. In addition, fuel economy has something to be desired on the highway still. The Ecos get 28-30 mpg on the highway but the ‘fix’ to reduce NOx will likely knock that down. In the city, the Eco fuel economy is at best 1-2 mpg better than my wife’s gas 3.6l. To put this into perspective, I can get 30+ mpg out of a gas powered Audi A5 2.0T under similar Highway driving conditions. Vehicle weight is comparable and both are AWD. That begs the question - why manufacture the more expensive diesel?!? It’s a $5,000 option!!!!

In addition resale value on the Ecos is horrendous. I paid a premium for the Eco and it sells at a discount to the gas counterpart - partly because of the emissions, partly because of the catestrophic failures.

Do I like my Jeep? Yes! I have been fortunate to not have any problems and I do not intend to sell it anytime soon because there aren’t many better options on the market in that class (aside from the aforementioned A5 or the more costly Volvo XC90 T8). Would I buy an Eco again in light of the points I have mentioned above? No. I would have kept driving my Supercrew and waited for a better offering to come to the market.

Chrysler has a long way to go in diesel powertrain development and frankly, I don’t think the economics or performance of diesel measure up to hybrid electric options - specifically the Volvo T8 powertrain.

If you buy the Eco, you are paying a premium for a half-baked product that will likely be abandoned in favor of gas-turbo-electric hybrids that out-perform the diesel in every respect and cost less.

Define an “extraordinarily high failure rate of main bearings” with numbers.

I highly doubt Bosch’s new exhaust management system is going to reduce mpg significantly, but we’ll see. Regardless, most of us with Jeeps tend to load them up with hundreds of pounds of accessories and gear which a diesel will most certainly manage with a less severe mpg penalty than gas.

Your use of an A5 2.0T for comparison might be the most spectacular straw man argument I’ve seen this year.

 

[JJW_ND]

I will jump in as I have also been waiting for a Wrangler Diesel since I got my 1st Wrangler 8 years ago. My exposure to diesels is all in light trucks. Getting close to a million miles of behind the wheel in diesel pickups.....the majority of it with a trailer in tow. My 1st diesel was a 1996 Dodge 2500 5sp. At the time it was either the top or near the top for the most powerful pulling/towing factory truck at the time. Between that truck and a new work truck (diesel pickup) every three years, I have a 1st hand experience of the growing pains with diesels and the EPA. Bottom line is the EPA has long hated diesels.

My interest in this new Wrangler diesel is it will come with more HP and torque then the killer pulling 96 Dodge Ram did with its 215 hp and 440 torque.

I have had 200K+ miles BTW with DEF, regen, particulate filters. I'm not scared.

Just give us a Diesel Wrangler.

Built it and they will buy it.

jjw
ND

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

My dad's ecodiesel GC has an absolutely flawless 80,000 miles on it. Never a single issue with ANYTHING engine related, AT ALL. He has a 2014, which I think is the first year they were out.

 

[kogar]

In addition resale value on the Ecos is horrendous. I paid a premium for the Eco and it sells at a discount to the gas counterpart - partly because of the emissions, partly because of the catestrophic failures.

.

I'm a data point that proves the opposite of your claim. First, my ecodiesel truck ran flawlessly for the four years I owned it - I absolutely loved it. I had no desire to sell it, but I was approached by a dealer who made me an excellent cash offer for my truck, and the money I made for the truck now sits in the bank to make a downpayment on my ecodiesel Wrangler. He stated that they can't keep the ecodiesels in stock enough, so the used models have excellent resale value (at which point in time I probably should have tried negotiating a higher price on my truck, but I was signing the papers as we were discussing this )

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