Tie rod binding at full lock

[flanders]

This question has been killing me. I've tried googling it a bunch, and I can only find a few threads talking about this and I don't understand their conclusions.

When I tighten the lock nuts on my tie rod, I'm very careful to keep as much slop in the bar as I can. That's to say I try to keep the ends parallel so I can rotate the bar up and down through the full range of the joints. This is all well and good.

The weird thing is, I'd expect the amount of up/down slop in the tie rod to remain constant no matter where the steering wheel is. I would think this because I imagine the tie rod holes in the knuckle are parallel to the ball joint axis. But as I slowly turn the tires, the amount of play in the tie rod slowly decreases. Right before I get to full lock all the slop is gone and the tie rod has to bind slightly to turn the tires the rest of the way. This happens turning right and left.

Has anyone noticed this, or is there something weird with my knuckles? Are the knuckles not in the same plane or something?

Thanks in advance for your help.

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[flanders]

All I can find is someone saying it has to do with the drag link angle, but that doesn't make sense to me. I don't think the axle flexes like that. I've used my angle meter to see if the housing is twisting and I can't see it.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Not sure I understand what you mean by "slop"??

There should not be any slop in the tire rod.

Then the binding turning righ tand left???


The Tie rod is your key to alignment and the Toe in/out. is a key factor.

Jeep typically have Toe in, not sure what it calls for on. your Jeep and or any mods you made that affect the suspension.

The goal: Same amount of Toe in left and right. Lets say oe in as measured in Inches is ⅛ toe in on both sides.

Make sure your steering wheel is centered and you Pittman Arm is centered.

Now you can center you front tires. HOW? Take a tap measure the using the ground plane measure the rear of hte tire either the inside or the outside and measure the distance. Lets call it 60 inche on the nose

Now got the front and using the ground plane repeat the measure on the front. Now you came up with a new number, say 60 ¼ in. Now you are Toe Out ¼ inch. What you want is Toe in 60 ⅛ in.

Now adjusting you Tie Rod by turning it and reducing the 60 ¼ down to 60 ⅛

What you want it tires as straight ahead as possible, how ever upon acceleration the tires wil want push to straighten out so I always use 1 /8 of an inch as my Toe on my Jeeps.

Too much Toe +/- and you will get SCRUB with eats the tires up as they are scurbbing against the pavement.

Make sure you are working on your Jeep on a FLAT HARD surface and you should be on the money...

Check caster after you TOE and you can look it up but you might want to start with 5.5 degrees and see if that works...

Let us know!

 

[flanders]

Not sure I understand what you mean by "slop"??

There should not be any slop in the tire rod.

Then the binding turning righ tand left???

Thanks for your help. I guess I didn't explain very well, it's hard picking words when staring at all the rods at the front of the jeep...

I have my caster at around 6* which has been great. I've done a bunch of testing with the toe, and I think between 0-1/16in is where I'll keep mine. Too much toe gives the whole thing a shimmy over dips.

As for the word 'slop', here is what I'm trying to explain:

The tie rod has I think heim joints at each end that give it some play or 'slop'. I tighten the lock nuts on each side so when I try to twist the tie rod with my hand, I get as much up/down play as possible as shown in the gif above.

But as I turn the wheel, it gets to the point I can't rotate the tie rod anymore. Sorry, I'm lousy with words.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Thanks for your help. I guess I didn't explain very well, it's hard picking words when staring at all the rods at the front of the jeep...

I have my caster at around 6* which has been great. I've done a bunch of testing with the toe, and I think between 0-1/16in is where I'll keep mine. Too much toe gives the whole thing a shimmy over dips.

As for the word 'slop', here is what I'm trying to explain:

The tie rod has I think heim joints at each end that give it some play or 'slop'. I tighten the lock nuts on each side so when I try to twist the tie rod with my hand, I get as much up/down play as possible as shown in the gif above.

But as I turn the wheel, it gets to the point I can't rotate the tie rod anymore. Sorry, I'm lousy with words.

That does concern me. How many miles on your Jeep?

Can you back off and let me see the Tie rod...take a pic . I don't think what I am seeing is kosher, that is a lot of play and there should not be any.

 

[flanders]

That does concern me. How many miles on your Jeep?

Can you back off and let me see the Tie rod...take a pic . I don't think what I am seeing is kosher, that is a lot of play and there should not be any.

That's just a gif I found online, not mine. But my tie rod does move about that much. As far as I know, this as it's designed to be.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/tie-rod-movement.31464/

 

[Old Jeeper]

That's just a gif I found online, not mine. But my tie rod does move about that much. As far as I know, this as it's designed to be.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/tie-rod-movement.31464/

The answer is below:

If it's rotating at the joints at the knuckle and the drag link, that's normal. It's designed to rotate a bit so that it doesn't bind up as the axle moves up and down and flexes.

If there is vertical play or clunking in the joints, that is not normal.

 

[flanders]

These are what I have at the end of the tie rod. The joints are moving with the tie rod. They have since new.

 

[word302]

You should be torquing the tie rod to spec, not based on movement.

 

[Roky]

That's just a gif I found online, not mine. But my tie rod does move about that much. As far as I know, this as it's designed to be.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/tie-rod-movement.31464/

The movement is normal, it has to move because when the axle droops it also gets pulled back, and slightly forward when stuffed… the more you turn the wheel the less it will rotate…I’m not sure why yours is binding without checking it out…..

 

[flanders]

The movement is normal, it has to move because when the axle droops it also gets pulled back, and slightly forward when stuffed… the more you turn the wheel the less it will rotate…I’m not sure why yours is binding without checking it out…..

That makes sense for the drag link, which has the same movement in it. One end is on the axle, the other on the body so the rod needs some play to deal with that misalignment through articulation.

But the tie rod, both ends are on the axle. Both knuckles should be parallel, so why does the slop change with steering?

 

[Roky]

That makes sense for the drag link, which has the same movement in it. One end is on the axle, the other on the body so the rod needs some play to deal with that misalignment through articulation.

But the tie rod, both ends are on the axle. Both knuckles should be parallel, so why does the slop change with steering?

The tie rod is also connected to the axle by the steering stabilizer….

 

[flanders]

The tie rod is also connected to the axle by the steering stabilizer….

Ah very good point! I had the same thought. I removed the steering stabilizer and it still acts the same. Didn't fix it It has the same limits when rotating the tie rod, but it's a little easier to turn the rod since the stabilizer isn't changing length.

 

[flanders]

Maybe this is normal and people don't notice? I just can't figure out why. Is it tolerances in the ball joints or something? I've tried to see if the knuckles aren't parallel but it's hard to tell.

 

[Roky]

Maybe this is normal and people don't notice? I just can't figure out why. Is it tolerances in the ball joints or something? I've tried to see if the knuckles aren't parallel but it's hard to tell.

It’s just the way the ball joints on the tie rod work… the movement isn’t as important as it is in the drag link, but it’s still a ball joint….Some/most aftermarket rods have anti wobble bushings or internal washers that limit the rotation, but it can’t be eliminated….

With my RK linkages you can see they provide a poly anti wobble bushing along with internal anti wobble washer on the tie rod…….

They don’t provide an external anti wobble on the drag link due to movement needed when maximum articulation with short/mid arm lifts. Since I’m running long arms, my axle doesn’t get pulled back or pushed forward so I made my own external anti wobble bushing, because I couldn’t stand driving around with my drag link flopped over like this…..

now I’m driving around like this…

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