This is not Good - Jeep Turnaround

[gato]

Not that I put that much stock in these "rating" consulting companies, but they somehow reflect a bit of the state of affairs.

As Jeep and Stellantis try to course-correct, they need to move quickly to the top right quadrant. To get there, you need to improve quality and price (affordability). Hoping they have a plan for that.

The other ingredient, of course, is fresh desirable products. Keeping the Wrangler basically unchanged, now in it's 8th year of the JL generation, and keeping things like the Durango unchanged going into it's 15th year seems to be insane.

This particular graph combines the JDPOWER, Cox Automotive and Kelley Blue Book data into a single view of quality vs affordability.

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[JKJ]

Yeah but we got ducks.

 

[entropy]

I am honestly ok with the wrangler being mostly unchanged. It is always been like that. The wrangler is a fine vehicle. One of its kind. No other like it in the U.S. market. It is everything else from the Jeep brand that is absolute shit. And all the stupid stuff they keep doing thats high tech, expensive and difficult to get done right (like the 4xe).

 

[The Last Cowboy]

Wranglers have never been, nor will they ever be affordable in relation to other forms of transportation. Hopefully Jeep recently learned though, that they aren’t luxury vehicles and those willing to pay luxury prices dried up pretty quick.

There is little excuse for the quality. That is something corporate could easily fix, and would reap cost savings benefits on the warranty side from. However, to be fair, Jeep has always had a somewhat low reliability reputation for most of it’s existence.

Making a new Wrangler into something it isn’t wont fix the issue. Even a new version, based on the current formula, won’t. Hell, the vast majority of the public can’t tell the difference between a JL and a JK. For the most part. Only those of us here, and other Jeep people can.

 

[Wbino]

Profit above all else is the corporate mantra.
Sure a quality vehicle that is also somewhat affordable is a nice dream but that's not the world we live in.
Just like all forums of any product most here are enthusiasts, a small section of buyers.
Jeep to be more profitable will move into any direction that sells more product and makes more money.
(The only reason companies exist.)

 

[gato]

I am honestly ok with the wrangler being mostly unchanged.

Hell, the vast majority of the public can’t tell the difference between a JL and a JK.

While I agree, that there is a benefit to have a long production run - for example more aftermarket support for mods, etc -, the issue is that there is a lot more competition now than when the JL launched.

There was no Bronco with 35" and 37" (Bronco Raptor) factory standard tires across the line up. There was no Grenadier (though that missed the mark wildly). There was no Defender for sale, now they have 3 sizes 90/110/130 with 4 different engines all the way to twin turbo V8s - they are picking up all the soft roader/adventure more affluent buyers. The rrunner, Land Cruiser, GX, LX Tacoma, Sequoia are all brand new and much more capable than before.

I don't think standing still for several more years is going to work well for the Wrangler.

 

[gato]

Apparently I'm a sadist since I just read all 12 pages.

I have nothing to add except to tell the OP to remove that stupid grill cover.

Are you on the right thread - this one is still on the first page and I only have a winch cover

 

[3TV]

Not that I put that much stock in these "rating" consulting companies, but they somehow reflect a bit of the state of affairs.

As Jeep and Stellantis try to course-correct, they need to move quickly to the top right quadrant. To get there, you need to improve quality and price (affordability). Hoping they have a plan for that.

The other ingredient, of course, is fresh desirable products. Keeping the Wrangler basically unchanged, now in it's 8th year of the JL generation, and keeping things like the Durango unchanged going into it's 15th year seems to be insane.

View attachment 1019515


This particular graph combines the JDPOWER, Cox Automotive and Kelley Blue Book data into a single view of quality vs affordability.

Where is Chevrolet on that graph? I see GMC but not Chevrolet. My brother and I were just talking about this today. We both pretty much felt that the only thing Chevrolet makes is SUVs, and they all look the same. I personally can't tell the difference between them other than small differences in size.

 

[gato]

Profit above all else is the corporate mantra.
Sure a quality vehicle that is also somewhat affordable is a nice dream but that's not the world we live in.
Just like all forums of any product most here are enthusiasts, a small section of buyers.
Jeep to be more profitable will move into any direction that sells more product and makes more money.
(The only reason companies exist.)

Yes, but Stellantis just had record losses in the first half of 2025, so they clearly moved in the wrong direction, even by the profit metric. And they themselves said they need to change strategy, and felt they needed to fire the CEO.

 

[gato]

Where is Chevrolet on that graph? I see GMC but not Chevrolet.

Big grey ball just below Toyota - they are barely in the upper right quadrant, but they are there.

 

[gato]

Here is a slightly better image from the report....

 

[Wbino]

Yes, but Stellantis just had record losses in the first half of 2025, so they clearly moved in the wrong direction, even by the profit metric. And they themselves said they need to change strategy, and felt they needed to fire the CEO.

They need to sell more units outside of the US , Wrangler because of it's size and crappy gas mileage are not good fits for the rest of the world.
Maybe Jeep needs to make a mini Wrangler like Ford did with the Bronco.
QC needs to increase but there are a lot of other factors in a company losing money like tariffs and competition.

 

[3TV]

Here is a slightly better image from the report....

Thanks, I see it on the better image.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

While I agree, that there is a benefit to have a long production run - for example more aftermarket support for mods, etc -, the issue is that there is a lot more competition now than when the JL launched.

There was no Bronco with 35" and 37" (Bronco Raptor) factory standard tires across the line up. There was no Grenadier (though that missed the mark wildly). There was no Defender for sale, now they have 3 sizes 90/110/130 with 4 different engines all the way to twin turbo V8s - they are picking up all the soft roader/adventure more affluent buyers. The rrunner, Land Cruiser, GX, LX Tacoma, Sequoia are all brand new and much more capable than before.

I don't think standing still for several more years is going to work well for the Wrangler.

There is no way Jeep can, or should compete with Land/Range Rover. That was a dream Tavares had, pushing prices faster than inflation to push buyers higher, so that the luxury conversion could be realized. That plan failed, and it won't happen. Besides, the modern Defenders are built on Jag platforms, and are best suited for nothing more than bad weather, despite what advertising suggests. Jeep just needs to build a nice, durable, reliable vehicle at a fair price. I believe the car buying public is tired of paying for unwanted luxury features on vehicles that aren't luxury. The current luxury for everything trend reminds me of the 70s, when every car tried to be luxurious, even lowly Mustang 2 Ghias.

As far as trying to make the Wrangler like one of the Toyota platfomed full frame SUVs, why? Toyota will trounce Jeep if they abandon what the Wrangler is and try to make a presence there.

That having been said, Jeep should try to make a SUV that directly competes with the Toyotas. And they should make the best one of it's kind period, at just below the Toyota price point. Not a luxury one, not a high tech one.

But the Wrangler should, and needs to exist in order for Jeep to retain it's very soul. Not making a Wrangler in it's current formula would be a mistake akin to Chevy dropping V8s, or Harley dropping V twins.

If someone wants a high end luxury SUV, or a tight, buttoned up full closed body one, then there are manufacturers who already make very good ones.

The Jeep CJ/Wrangler has outlasted all comers over the decades. Scout/Scout II, Bronco (original and full size), Blazer/Jimmy, Ramcharger/Trailduster, FJ 40, Series Land Rovers/Defender, Samurai, and probably a few others I forgot that have at least some type of removable roof. Many of those sold better than the Jeep CJ/Wrangler, for awhile anyway, then they faded away. Yet the Wrangler remains, even though the last of the CJ based parts died with the TJ in 1996, there has been constant evolution vs revolution.

 

[gato]

As far as trying to make the Wrangler like one of the Toyota platfomed full frame SUVs, why? Toyota will trounce Jeep if they abandon what the Wrangler is and try to make a presence there.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I think you are commenting on changing the Wrangler vs adding another off-road light Jeep model.

As far as current SUVs Jeep has the Wrangler and a bunch of SUVs that have zero off-road capability, with all but the Wagoneer being crossovers. Some people want some off-road capability, without all the noise, leaks, safety issues that come with removable roof and doors. The Grand Cherokee should be better off-road than a Defender. The Cherokee should be better than a 4Runner. Instead they are just slightly taller station wagons.

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