The "hate" on Jeeps + Speed

[yokramer]

If you were just building a desert only rig of course it's start with a trx. But what if you want to run the Rubicon trail and go faster than most in the desert? The OP didn't ask about track cars or of the Jeep would be the best prerunner. Yes it can do both. No it won't beat out trophy trucks in the desert or ultra 4 cars through the Rubicon. If you can afford it build terrain specific vehicles for all types of use and tow rigs and trailers then of course each one will be better at is intended use. For those of us that aren't billionaires, the Jeep is still the best starting point for an off road rig in my experience. And the solid axle durability probably contributed to the win for the gladiator as it's total time over 400 miles not who attained the highest top speed at a given time. Context, it's the reason the classes exist in the first place. Otherwise only the ultra wealthy could run the baja in their full trophy trucks and everyone else would be out.

And again none of that makes the jeep the "fast" choice. Just the one that can do just about anything in the off road world pretty damn good. Like you said its the choice that you pick if you want to do a bit of everything well, or rock crawl better than anything else out there.

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[3TV]

Its more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow... even if the actual speeds are identical.

I agree completely with this statement. And taking it one step further, it is more fun to push the limits of a stock JL on a tough technical offroad trail where it is clawing and scratching its way through than it is to drive a rock buggy down a graded gravel road. It is the challenge that is fun, and the amount of challenge is dependent on what you are driving.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I don't know OP but this sounds like someone who has never gone deep into Jeep work or someone who just drops it at a shop and swipes the card. an IFS Swap is heavy work and kind of a pain in the ass to DIY and there's a lot of things that can go wrong.


This looks like the Savvy offroad JT. IT competed in King of the Hammers several years back. It did well in the EMC class before Ford and other manufacturers started pouring money and pro drivers into the EMC class.

I think this is a design question: Do you want one thing that can do everything kinda ok, or one highly specialized thing. Most people don't buy Jeeps to do Autocross, or go fast: They're looking to go rock crawling or overlanding or get out in the back country.

The other thing to keep in mind: Going fast is expensive. I learned this in my brief stint with modern muscle cars. Going fast AND jumping things puts a lot of stress and requires a lot of overbuilding and over engineering. Some Prerunners can do that easier than Jeeps but to do it right and make it reliable? Still a lot of engineering and money going into that to make it perform and drive home reliably. If you're going to spend that much money, probably spend it wiser with your beginning platform.

Despite all this, Jeepspeed racing was a thing.

The OP isn't trying to go trophy truck fast, or even raptor or Jeepspeed fast. He literally said 50-60mph off road. You don't need to re-engineer the Jeep for that. It will do it stock. A shock upgrade will make it do it far better. No it will never be fast compared to $250k+ trophy trucks or 911s on the track. Good thing nobody asked that or implied that it would be...

 

[Whaler27]

The OP literally stated off road speed. The physics of traveling through Johnson Valley are far different than the freeway which is far different than Laguna seca which is far different than the drag strip. If you're simply looking at the distance/ time as in true speed, context still matters. Is it only top speed that matters? What is considered fast? 150? 200? 230+ like a Bugatti? Track fast? Drag strip fast? A top fuel dragster would be slower around Laguna seca than any stock street vehicle, must be slow?

When I was about 9 my formal and often grumpy grandmother announced, “The horse is the fastest animal!” Fresh from science class, I said, “No, the cheetah is much faster!”

She glared at me and sternly said, “I was referring to long distance travel… Mr. know-it-all!!”

I said, “Long distance? Then it’s the wolf, because a wolf can maintain 6 to 8 mph and cover over 50 miles per day.” (That’s when I got sent to my room.)

 

[Zandcwhite]

And again none of that makes the jeep the "fast" choice. Just the one that can do just about anything in the off road world pretty damn good. Like you said its the choice that you pick if you want to do a bit of everything well, or rock crawl better than anything else out there.

If you had to buy a bone stock rig and run king of the hammers (big rocks and desert running), I don't think you'd find a faster choice? The tie rods on IFS rigs aren't known to hold up in the rocks, especially if you're trying to do it quickly. Obviously a 4400 car is going to be faster, but that's 5-10x the budget easy between the build and the tow rig and trailer.

 

[RubiSc0tt]

The OP isn't trying to go trophy truck fast, or even raptor or Jeepspeed fast. He literally said 50-60mph off road. You don't need to re-engineer the Jeep for that. It will do it stock. A shock upgrade will make it do it far better. No it will never be fast compared to $250k+ trophy trucks or 911s on the track. Good thing nobody asked that or implied that it would be...

That's fair. I skimmed some posts, honestly. and if you're doing 50-60 in the sand that's 100% achievable. It's when people started comparing to prerunners that I got lost.

 

[Zandcwhite]

When I was about 9 my formal and often grumpy grandmother announced, “The horse is the fastest animal!” Fresh from science class, I said, “No, the cheetah is much faster!”

She glared at me and sternly said, “I was referring to long distance travel… Mr. know-it-all!!”

I said, “Long distance? Then it’s the wolf, because a wolf can maintain 6 to 8 mph and cover over 50 miles per day.” (That’s when I got sent to my room.)

So facts don't matter when arguing with the elderly? This whole thread makes sense now.

 

[AskBin]

The OP isn't trying to go trophy truck fast, or even raptor or Jeepspeed fast. He literally said 50-60mph off road. You don't need to re-engineer the Jeep for that. It will do it stock. A shock upgrade will make it do it far better. No it will never be fast compared to $250k+ trophy trucks or 911s on the track. Good thing nobody asked that or implied that it would be...

id still rather a raptor before i bump steer a jeep into a rollover at 50-60mph offroad...

"it will do it" dosent mean there arent better options. why would i chose a JL to do the job of something more purpose built, why chose a jl that will be more unstable at those speeds, and more unsafe in a rollover into a tree.

you do you mate, OP asked why the hate. thats the hate. i take the long way home all the time, dosent mean its the better option

 

[Zandcwhite]

id still rather a raptor before i bump steer a jeep into a rollover at 50-60mph offroad...

"it will do it" dosent mean there arent better options. why would i chose a JL to do the job of something more purpose built, why chose a jl that will be more unstable at those speeds, and more unsafe in a rollover into a tree.

you do you mate, OP asked why the hate. thats the hate. i take the long way home all the time, dosent mean its the better option

How's the raptor look after the rubicon trail though? Or even tighter ones like the dusy? Sure if it's just a desert rig there are better options. What if you run additional terrain, especially big rocks and tight trails?

 

[AskBin]

That's fair. I skimmed some posts, honestly. and if you're doing 50-60 in the sand that's 100% achievable. It's when people started comparing to prerunners that I got lost.

OP brought up prerunners and original willys when talking about wanting to go 60 in some dirt and sand i guess

 

[RubiSc0tt]

OP brought up prerunners and original willys when talking about wanting to go 60 in some dirt and sand i guess

lol factory original Willy's were lucky if they could crack 50mph on a smooth surface with a tailwind. 4cylinder engine with something stupid like 85hp. It was basically a more comfortable tractor you could drive on the road easier.

 

[AskBin]

How's the raptor look after the rubicon trail though? Or even tighter ones like the dusy? Sure if it's just a desert rig there are better options. What if you run additional terrain, especially big rocks and tight trails?

are you doing 60 on the rubi?

dont need to ask me what i would do, i bought a JL to do those trails, and if i want to go racing ill start welding up a trophy truck cage and go from there lmao. i have no intentions in making a unicorn by starting with a donkey, ill go to my stable and grab a horse

its more of a question of whats the primary goal of the vehicle? is it primarily to go fast on some fire roads and then calm down and so some small rock crawling? id take a raptor or a bronco for that yeah. no its not gonna be a world beater at those, but lmk if you get your cake and eat it too...

 

[AskBin]

lol factory original Willy's were lucky if they could crack 50mph on a smooth surface with a tailwind. 4cylinder engine with something stupid like 85hp. It was basically a more comfortable tractor you could drive on the road easier.

yeah i really have no idea. he started saying willys and "as fast as possible" i dont know if he realized were 80 years removed from when those were "ok" and "good enough"

 

[yokramer]

If you had to buy a bone stock rig and run king of the hammers (big rocks and desert running), I don't think you'd find a faster choice? The tie rods on IFS rigs aren't known to hold up in the rocks, especially if you're trying to do it quickly. Obviously a 4400 car is going to be faster, but that's 5-10x the budget easy between the build and the tow rig and trailer.

And it still wont be fast doing it.

 

[2nd 392]

lol factory original Willy's were lucky if they could crack 50mph on a smooth surface with a tailwind. 4cylinder engine with something stupid like 85hp. It was basically a more comfortable tractor you could drive on the road easier.

Yes they were marketed as a “light tractor” Go Devil 60 HP , “can achieve 60mph” MB & CJ2A with 4.88’s - 45 MPH 3A with 5.38’s - 72 HP Hurricane 3B & 5’s still 5.38’s until the V6 was available iirc.
edit- Dad got the 3A from a farmer that got a real tractor. … my 63 had 5.38’s.
3A’s got the 5.38’s to enhance “Light Tractor” with the “Max Speed 45 MPH” compromise. “Light Tractor” is also why the D-18’s had a PTO port.

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