Sponsored

Speaker replacement upgrade

carstereochick

Well-Known Member
First Name
Annie
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
56
Reaction score
93
Location
Brookfield, CT
Vehicle(s)
2019 Wrangler MOAB and 2014 Wrangler 2-door Freedom Edition
Hi! I have a JL with 7” Uconnect. Tried to have Focal ICU100 speakers put in without an amp/additional modifications however when they were connected, no sound came out.

Do you have any recommendation on how to get them to work? I would want them to work but if I have to add an amp and line output converter it may not be worth it for such a seemingly minor upgrade. Are there any plug and play options? And if not, what are the complete requirements for your recommended setup above?

PS: I have two JBL Basspro SL8s under each of the front seats and they add a nice amount of fullness to the sound, however the stock speakers are awful. I would be happy with a slight improvement if it means not having to add any more equipment.

Thanks in advance!
Hi there - I highly recommend you read Mike's post on his upgrade where he explains the need for resistors to be in line on the factory speaker lines otherwise there is no output from the radio. At our shop so far we've only seen and done upgrades on the JL's with the premium Alpine which can use Pac's AP4-CH41 easy pre-amp adapter for a full system upgrade. It is my understanding based on comments here and install guides read on the Metra AX-DSP that the stock head unit needs to see resistors in line. I'm guessing based on your experience the resistor is on the stock speaker connector and when you removed it, you lost output on those channels.

Additionally it appears based on another user's RTA test on the stock basic head unit, the output of the factory radio is lacking in mid range and bass appears boomy. So even if you put better speakers in on the stock head unit, you will probably notice a minimal improvement due to the output of the factory radio. Which is why we're all talking about DSP processors especially for the non amplified models.

If it was my vehicle I would do the following for parts:
  • JL Audio Fix-86
  • JL Audio DRC-205 (master volume control knob, bass knob, EQ preset selector and clipping indicator)
  • JL Audio VX1005/i 5 channel amp with internal Twk-88 DSP processor (gives us the fine tuning control, EQ, time alignment, crossover points, software to control via laptop)
  • Morel Hybrid 402 components in front
  • Can do same in rear or save a few bucks and do the point source coaxial Hybrid 402 Integra
  • JL Audio stealth box (I'd probably do both sides if budget not a concern :))
  • I like JL's under seat amp rack and fuse holder too
Now, if you want to keep the under seat subs you already have, go for the JL Audio VX400/i 4 channel instead of the 5 channel. I know it these aren't cheap parts, but it's well worth it. Having a good sound system in these cars, at least for hubby John and I, is a huge part of the enjoyment we have in driving around with the top down on sunny days. That's what we do for fun when the weather finally gets nice in CT.

For a bare minimum, you could do a regular 4 channel amp, the same Morel speakers, the Fix-86 and DRC-205 and forgo the fine tune control of the Twk-88 processor built into the Vxi amps from JL. The Fix-86 will at least clean up the output similar to what a base line output would be on an aftermarket head unit with everything set flat (bass, treble, mid etc). The Twk-88 and their Vxi amps is what gives us the fine tune EQ control to perfect, but we have done a fair amount of upgrades with just the Fix-86 in many vehicles for our more budget conscious customers.

If all that seems too much and you really need a plug and play set up, wait till Alpine comes out with something better than the PSS-23WRA. I don't know that they're working on anything specifically, but I imagine since they are so Jeep focused, they may and if not them, hopefully someone comes out with an easy upgrade for do-it-yourselfers.
Sponsored

 

JeeJeep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2019
Threads
9
Messages
60
Reaction score
12
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sport S
Hi there - I highly recommend you read Mike's post on his upgrade where he explains the need for resistors to be in line on the factory speaker lines otherwise there is no output from the radio. At our shop so far we've only seen and done upgrades on the JL's with the premium Alpine which can use Pac's AP4-CH41 easy pre-amp adapter for a full system upgrade. It is my understanding based on comments here and install guides read on the Metra AX-DSP that the stock head unit needs to see resistors in line. I'm guessing based on your experience the resistor is on the stock speaker connector and when you removed it, you lost output on those channels.

Additionally it appears based on another user's RTA test on the stock basic head unit, the output of the factory radio is lacking in mid range and bass appears boomy. So even if you put better speakers in on the stock head unit, you will probably notice a minimal improvement due to the output of the factory radio. Which is why we're all talking about DSP processors especially for the non amplified models.

If it was my vehicle I would do the following for parts:
  • JL Audio Fix-86
  • JL Audio DRC-205 (master volume control knob, bass knob, EQ preset selector and clipping indicator)
  • JL Audio VX1005/i 5 channel amp with internal Twk-88 DSP processor (gives us the fine tuning control, EQ, time alignment, crossover points, software to control via laptop)
  • Morel Hybrid 402 components in front
  • Can do same in rear or save a few bucks and do the point source coaxial Hybrid 402 Integra
  • JL Audio stealth box (I'd probably do both sides if budget not a concern :))
  • I like JL's under seat amp rack and fuse holder too
Now, if you want to keep the under seat subs you already have, go for the JL Audio VX400/i 4 channel instead of the 5 channel. I know it these aren't cheap parts, but it's well worth it. Having a good sound system in these cars, at least for hubby John and I, is a huge part of the enjoyment we have in driving around with the top down on sunny days. That's what we do for fun when the weather finally gets nice in CT.

For a bare minimum, you could do a regular 4 channel amp, the same Morel speakers, the Fix-86 and DRC-205 and forgo the fine tune control of the Twk-88 processor built into the Vxi amps from JL. The Fix-86 will at least clean up the output similar to what a base line output would be on an aftermarket head unit with everything set flat (bass, treble, mid etc). The Twk-88 and their Vxi amps is what gives us the fine tune EQ control to perfect, but we have done a fair amount of upgrades with just the Fix-86 in many vehicles for our more budget conscious customers.

If all that seems too much and you really need a plug and play set up, wait till Alpine comes out with something better than the PSS-23WRA. I don't know that they're working on anything specifically, but I imagine since they are so Jeep focused, they may and if not them, hopefully someone comes out with an easy upgrade for do-it-yourselfers.

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation! I will look into getting the upgrades you suggested with the 4 channel app Vxi amp and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again!
 

jonsavino

Active Member
First Name
Jon
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
28
Reaction score
50
Location
Northern NJ
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLU Sahara
Hi there - I highly recommend you read Mike's post on his upgrade where he explains the need for resistors to be in line on the factory speaker lines otherwise there is no output from the radio. At our shop so far we've only seen and done upgrades on the JL's with the premium Alpine which can use Pac's AP4-CH41 easy pre-amp adapter for a full system upgrade. It is my understanding based on comments here and install guides read on the Metra AX-DSP that the stock head unit needs to see resistors in line. I'm guessing based on your experience the resistor is on the stock speaker connector and when you removed it, you lost output on those channels.

Additionally it appears based on another user's RTA test on the stock basic head unit, the output of the factory radio is lacking in mid range and bass appears boomy. So even if you put better speakers in on the stock head unit, you will probably notice a minimal improvement due to the output of the factory radio. Which is why we're all talking about DSP processors especially for the non amplified models.

If it was my vehicle I would do the following for parts:
  • JL Audio Fix-86
  • JL Audio DRC-205 (master volume control knob, bass knob, EQ preset selector and clipping indicator)
  • JL Audio VX1005/i 5 channel amp with internal Twk-88 DSP processor (gives us the fine tuning control, EQ, time alignment, crossover points, software to control via laptop)
  • Morel Hybrid 402 components in front
  • Can do same in rear or save a few bucks and do the point source coaxial Hybrid 402 Integra
  • JL Audio stealth box (I'd probably do both sides if budget not a concern :))
  • I like JL's under seat amp rack and fuse holder too
Now, if you want to keep the under seat subs you already have, go for the JL Audio VX400/i 4 channel instead of the 5 channel. I know it these aren't cheap parts, but it's well worth it. Having a good sound system in these cars, at least for hubby John and I, is a huge part of the enjoyment we have in driving around with the top down on sunny days. That's what we do for fun when the weather finally gets nice in CT.

For a bare minimum, you could do a regular 4 channel amp, the same Morel speakers, the Fix-86 and DRC-205 and forgo the fine tune control of the Twk-88 processor built into the Vxi amps from JL. The Fix-86 will at least clean up the output similar to what a base line output would be on an aftermarket head unit with everything set flat (bass, treble, mid etc). The Twk-88 and their Vxi amps is what gives us the fine tune EQ control to perfect, but we have done a fair amount of upgrades with just the Fix-86 in many vehicles for our more budget conscious customers.

If all that seems too much and you really need a plug and play set up, wait till Alpine comes out with something better than the PSS-23WRA. I don't know that they're working on anything specifically, but I imagine since they are so Jeep focused, they may and if not them, hopefully someone comes out with an easy upgrade for do-it-yourselfers.

great info. how would you compare the morel hybrid to alpines type r 5.25 components? I was going to get the morels but the dealer had the alpines in stock and told me they were the same and he can make them fit in knee panel and sound bar. I am using the same JL amp to power components and a jl 10w6 with separate alpine amp. Also, is DSP required for non alpine 7" units? My installer did mention the resistors but not the DSP. thanks
 

carstereochick

Well-Known Member
First Name
Annie
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
56
Reaction score
93
Location
Brookfield, CT
Vehicle(s)
2019 Wrangler MOAB and 2014 Wrangler 2-door Freedom Edition
great info. how would you compare the morel hybrid to alpines type r 5.25 components? I was going to get the morels but the dealer had the alpines in stock and told me they were the same and he can make them fit in knee panel and sound bar. I am using the same JL amp to power components and a jl 10w6 with separate alpine amp. Also, is DSP required for non alpine 7" units? My installer did mention the resistors but not the DSP. thanks
Hi Jon. Night and day, not even close. So scary that dealer told you that! Alpine Type R's are a great VALUE speaker, have good mid range punch, smooth tweeter and well balanced. Morel's Hybrids have a tighter, cleaner, more accurate mid range and incredibly detailed, accurate tweeter that is never ever harsh. The Morel tweeter is not even comparable to the Alpine Type R tweeter. Morel is known for their tweeters. Even their Maximo tweeter is better I think (and customer's usually too) than the Type R tweeter, but Type R mid range definitely more "bassy", but not as clean.

Type R's are a good, but Morel Hybrid just better quality speaker and price reflects that. Does he have Alpine Type X? I was REALLY impressed with those and they're reasonably priced at $450 for components, $350 for coaxial, but off the top of my head I think only offered in 6.5" or 6x9" component and coaxial so would need to modify both housings so in that regard you're spending more on labor.

As discussed early, the Fix-86 is HIGHLY recommended. I ran into same issue with a 2019 VW GTI like 2 weeks ago where customer really just wanted to use the Vxi amp to correct stock audio signal. I ended up calling JL tech support to discuss in detail to make sure I understood the difference. The thing that the Fix does is save massive amounts of time because it gets you to a clean flat signal first - with the press of a button. Very much like starting with the clean flat signal of an aftermarket head unit. Then you can use the EQ tools in the Twk/VXi amp to fine tune and correct. Yeah, it's possible to just use the Vxi amp and do a lot of the correction by hand, but you may spend more time on labor/tuning. Additionally, there are things the Fix-86 does that the Twk/Vxi amps do not do which is de-equalize and de-time correct factory signals. Also the Fix-86 has an option for putting everything back to stock *just* for handsfree calling. I don't know if this will be necessary in this vehicle because I haven't run into it yet, so far we've only done upgrades on the amplified models and for that we use the Pac Audio AP4-CH41 plus twk or Vxi amp. In some vehicles, handsfree call sound quality is thrown off when you add a DSP so this feature can revert for handsfree calling if necessary.
 

JLsport2019

Guest
So the Morel Hybrid 402 (4") component speakers are best?

4" in knee and the tweeters on the dash?
 

Sponsored

jonsavino

Active Member
First Name
Jon
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
28
Reaction score
50
Location
Northern NJ
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLU Sahara
Hi Jon. Night and day, not even close. So scary that dealer told you that! Alpine Type R's are a great VALUE speaker, have good mid range punch, smooth tweeter and well balanced. Morel's Hybrids have a tighter, cleaner, more accurate mid range and incredibly detailed, accurate tweeter that is never ever harsh. The Morel tweeter is not even comparable to the Alpine Type R tweeter. Morel is known for their tweeters. Even their Maximo tweeter is better I think (and customer's usually too) than the Type R tweeter, but Type R mid range definitely more "bassy", but not as clean.

Type R's are a good, but Morel Hybrid just better quality speaker and price reflects that. Does he have Alpine Type X? I was REALLY impressed with those and they're reasonably priced at $450 for components, $350 for coaxial, but off the top of my head I think only offered in 6.5" or 6x9" component and coaxial so would need to modify both housings so in that regard you're spending more on labor.

As discussed early, the Fix-86 is HIGHLY recommended. I ran into same issue with a 2019 VW GTI like 2 weeks ago where customer really just wanted to use the Vxi amp to correct stock audio signal. I ended up calling JL tech support to discuss in detail to make sure I understood the difference. The thing that the Fix does is save massive amounts of time because it gets you to a clean flat signal first - with the press of a button. Very much like starting with the clean flat signal of an aftermarket head unit. Then you can use the EQ tools in the Twk/VXi amp to fine tune and correct. Yeah, it's possible to just use the Vxi amp and do a lot of the correction by hand, but you may spend more time on labor/tuning. Additionally, there are things the Fix-86 does that the Twk/Vxi amps do not do which is de-equalize and de-time correct factory signals. Also the Fix-86 has an option for putting everything back to stock *just* for handsfree calling. I don't know if this will be necessary in this vehicle because I haven't run into it yet, so far we've only done upgrades on the amplified models and for that we use the Pac Audio AP4-CH41 plus twk or Vxi amp. In some vehicles, handsfree call sound quality is thrown off when you add a DSP so this feature can revert for handsfree calling if necessary.

I should of refrained my self. He said to the untrained ear they are the same. He has installed both systems and the type r with a good amp are about the same sound quality as a top tier system. I just got my truck back and beyond impressed with type r components. he was not lying when he said best bang for buck. The highs are crisp and loud not harsh at high volumes. The lows on the 5.25 are very punchy goes great with my sub. This system cost me $1600 and is alot better than wranglers upgraded alpine system and 10x better than stock system.
 

JLsport2019

Guest
Dumb question:

4_channel amp or 6_channel amp?
What do I get?

If I have Component System in front
(4" knee area and 1.5" tweeters in dash, ie....Morel Hybrids) four total front speakers.

and 6.5" Rear Sound Bar speakers (only 2 in sound bar, I replaced the 4x factory sound bar speakers with two 6.5" speakers)
ie...JL Audio C2 speakers.

Shall I just buy a 4channel amp?
Or do I need a 6channle amp?


(I have self powered amp JL Audio 10" Subwoofer in trunk)
 

carstereochick

Well-Known Member
First Name
Annie
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
56
Reaction score
93
Location
Brookfield, CT
Vehicle(s)
2019 Wrangler MOAB and 2014 Wrangler 2-door Freedom Edition
I should of refrained my self. He said to the untrained ear they are the same. He has installed both systems and the type r with a good amp are about the same sound quality as a top tier system. I just got my truck back and beyond impressed with type r components. he was not lying when he said best bang for buck. The highs are crisp and loud not harsh at high volumes. The lows on the 5.25 are very punchy goes great with my sub. This system cost me $1600 and is alot better than wranglers upgraded alpine system and 10x better than stock system.
Haha, awesome - glad to hear that. I was totally thinking he was just pushing what he had in stock based on what you wrote and I hate when dealers do that. I usually let my customer's hear the difference so they can determine if it's worth it to them to spend the extra dough, but I know either one, with the right power and tuning would be leaps and bounds above stock.
 

carstereochick

Well-Known Member
First Name
Annie
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
56
Reaction score
93
Location
Brookfield, CT
Vehicle(s)
2019 Wrangler MOAB and 2014 Wrangler 2-door Freedom Edition
Dumb question:

4_channel amp or 6_channel amp?
What do I get?

If I have Component System in front
(4" knee area and 1.5" tweeters in dash, ie....Morel Hybrids) four total front speakers.

and 6.5" Rear Sound Bar speakers (only 2 in sound bar, I replaced the 4x factory sound bar speakers with two 6.5" speakers)
ie...JL Audio C2 speakers.

Shall I just buy a 4channel amp?
Or do I need a 6channle amp?


(I have self powered amp JL Audio 10" Subwoofer in trunk)
Earlier question you posted, yes just the 4" component Hybrid 402 for the knee pad and dash speakers. They do come with a crossover network so just a 4 channel necessary to power front components and the rear C2 speakers you got.
 

Sting_NC_USA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Threads
27
Messages
1,026
Reaction score
995
Location
Greensboro, NC
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler JL Unlimited Rubicon
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Dumb question:

4_channel amp or 6_channel amp?
What do I get?

If I have Component System in front
(4" knee area and 1.5" tweeters in dash, ie....Morel Hybrids) four total front speakers.

and 6.5" Rear Sound Bar speakers (only 2 in sound bar, I replaced the 4x factory sound bar speakers with two 6.5" speakers)
ie...JL Audio C2 speakers.

Shall I just buy a 4channel amp?
Or do I need a 6channle amp?


(I have self powered amp JL Audio 10" Subwoofer in trunk)
If the 6-channel amp can send a full-range signal from each of its outputs (prefferably with controllable crossover settings like the JL Audio VXi series), jump on it. You'd delete the separates' crossover box and send 4 of the six channels to the separates directly.

Otherwise the 4-channel would work fine.
 

Sponsored

JLsport2019

Guest
JL Audio LOC-22 versus JL Audio Fix-86.

http://www.jlaudio.com/loc-22-car-audio-oem-integration-processors-98413

It's $300 less, do they do the SAME thing?
Equalizes factory radio to ZERO EQ settings.

I have the 7" factory radio (non-alpine).
The 7" factory radio has a factory built-in amp inside it from what I read compared to the upgraded Alpine equipped JL jeeps. That factory built-in amp is causing that unwanted noise in our upgraded speakers we all are adding on. I know the Fix-86 will fix that, but shouldn't the LOC-22 do the same thing??

What are pros & cons using each?
 

Sting_NC_USA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Threads
27
Messages
1,026
Reaction score
995
Location
Greensboro, NC
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler JL Unlimited Rubicon
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
JL Audio LOC-22 versus JL Audio Fix-86.

http://www.jlaudio.com/loc-22-car-audio-oem-integration-processors-98413

It's $300 less, do they do the SAME thing?
Equalizes factory radio to ZERO EQ settings.

I have the 7" factory radio (non-alpine).
The 7" factory radio has a factory built-in amp inside it from what I read compared to the upgraded Alpine equipped JL jeeps. That factory built-in amp is causing that unwanted noise in our upgraded speakers we all are adding on. I know the Fix-86 will fix that, but shouldn't the LOC-22 do the same thing??

What are pros & cons using each?
The LOC-22 is strictly a line out converter, whereas, the Fix86 is an LOC and DSP in a single device.
 

JLsport2019

Guest
JL Audio c2 3.5" on dash with VX DSP amp.
Is this what these DSP amps do to entry-level speakers? "Sound Stage" " timing"...etc.
I didn't know amps could manipulate sound like that :-0


23:30 on this video.
 

Sting_NC_USA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Threads
27
Messages
1,026
Reaction score
995
Location
Greensboro, NC
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler JL Unlimited Rubicon
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
LOC-22 does not zero out (flat) the factory radio EQ????
I really don't think so. I saw nothing on their website that says it does. Looks like a straight-forward LOC without DSP capabilities.
Sponsored

 
 



Top