Rivian < Jeep Diesel

[ALeeL]

My wife recently purchased a Rivian R1S dual motor performance with the max battery (410 mile range— per EPA), and I have been itching to take it to our farm to go over several mild obstacles we have out there. Rivian’s are touted as being capable off-road and the R1S can have up to 14.9 inches of ground clearance at max height. I saw a few of these on the easy trails, like Gemeni Bridge, the last time I was in Moab and have been curious on what they can do.

With 665 horsepower / 829 lb-ft of instant torque on tap, this thing is a fun highway and city cruiser. It is unreasonably quick at 3.5 seconds 0-60, and I can’t imagine how the 1,025 hp / 1,198 lb-ft quad motor R1S feels like at 2.6 seconds. Unfortunately, all that torque does not translate to off-road capability.

The dual has one motor in the front axle and another motor in the rear with a gear reduction optimized for highway driving ,so you can imagine how that would be off road without a low range. Because of this, my Rubicon Ecodiesel feels like it has more torque off road than the Rivian when in 4-low . Since these things don’t come with lockers, it relies solely on traction control which is not as well programed as the Wrangler. It takes a lot more wheel spin for it to finally send power to the other wheel and a lot of pedal manipulation to get it to do what you want it to do. Not a comfortable or confidence inspiring feeling.

It is independent suspension all the way around, but it has good articulation considering what it is. While nowhere near a Wrangler’s articulation with the stabilaizer detached, it does a lot better than other independent vehicles I have driven. This is due to not having a stabilizer bar and instead uses adaptive hydraulic system to control body role. A system similar to what the latest McLaren sports car uses. At high speed it resists roles, but at low speed it uses the hydraulic valving to push the other tire down. Very neat, but at the same time probably very expensive and less reliable.

Since the electric motors utilize regenerative braking, going down obstacles is really a non-event. You can customize how much regenerative braking you want with three different modes. In fact, I hardly ever use brakes when driving on-road and just slowly let off the accelerator as I come to a stop. It takes some time to get used to it and found myself stopping way too soon a few times, but after 30 minutes behind the wheel it becomes second nature.

Short distance overlanding and camping would be good with this thing. In camping mode, you can level the vehicle out for sleeping, it has 120v outlets in multiple locations that can actually be used for more than just charging things, storage everywhere including a huge frunk, and of course, you can use the AC at night without disturbing others too much.

Fuel wise, it’s real-world average for the 5k miles she has driven this thing is 2.57 miles per kwh, which is equivalent to 86 mpg. We got a home charger to charge at night when our electric is 6 cents per kwh. Charging her 140 kwh hour battery to full would be $8.47. So, that is real world range of 360 miles for $8.47.

Keep in mind, she did not get this thing to save the planet or even money for that matter. She got it because she is horrible at keeping up with maintenance, hates going to the gas station, and loved the idea of a frunk along with waking up to fully "fueled" vehicle every morning.

Lockers and a low range gear would really help this thing out, but even then, it is hard to get past its 7k curb weight. It is fun and comfortable to drive on roads, but I would still choose my Jeep when going off road. I might take this thing to stay a night on the beach or short camping trip, but any long trips or real off-roading, Ecodiesel all the way.

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[Hard Rock Jeep]

Thank you for the write up. Good info.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

7k lbs? That thing is as heavy as my Ram 2500 Power Wagon.

Zero to 60 times under 6 seconds are meaningless for street driven vehicles.

They are cool little trucks though, I like the looks of Rivians from every angle, except the front robot eyes. Nice little city hauler.

 

[yokramer]

Why does this apple juice I tried to squeeze out of this orange taste wrong?

 

[ALeeL]

Why does this apple juice I tried to squeeze out of this orange taste wrong?

LOL,

However, I don't think these are apples to oranges to everyone. For those of us that use their Jeeps to their full potential or near their full potential. Yes, I would agree that this is apples and oranges that should not be cross shopped. I would never cross shop the two.

For the soft roader crowd, these are closer to being cross shopped than you might think. I spoke with the owners of RIS I saw in Moab and they traded in there 4xe Wrangler for the Rivian because they don't do hardcore trails to use it to it's full potential. I later saw them on Fins and Things, which is not a hard trail by any means, but one that many stock vehicles cannot do and their R1S did it exactly how it came from the factory

When we went to the Rivian center pick her R1S up, there were several Wranglers and Broncos in their trade in lot. I spoke with the Rivian rep helping us and he said they get Jeep, Bronco, and 4Runner trade-ins all the time. So, they might be a little closer to for some.

 

[Billy Bones]

Why does this apple juice I tried to squeeze out of this orange taste wrong?

Xactly. For me it comes down to electric vs traditional mechanical systems and strong off-road heritage. It isn’t a Jeep but if it can float someone’s boat then it’s ok I suppose. Electric just doesn’t do it for me.

 

[zouch]

nice comparo writeup!
(except for the headlights) i think the Riv is pretty great at what it's for.

i hope to see someone create an electric off-roader with 4-motors (one at each wheel) and portal axles. there's been talk about it for decades, and i think the tech is getting closer to making it a reality.

My wife recently purchased a Rivian R1S dual motor performance with the max battery (410 mile range— per EPA), and I have been itching to take it to our farm to go over several mild obstacles we have out there. Rivian’s are touted as being capable off-road and the R1S can have up to 14.9 inches of ground clearance at max height. I saw a few of these on the easy trails, like Gemeni Bridge, the last time I was in Moab and have been curious on what they can do.

With 665 horsepower / 829 lb-ft of instant torque on tap, this thing is a fun highway and city cruiser. It is unreasonably quick at 3.5 seconds 0-60, and I can’t imagine how the 1,025 hp / 1,198 lb-ft quad motor R1S feels like at 2.6 seconds. Unfortunately, all that torque does not translate to off-road capability.

The dual has one motor in the front axle and another motor in the rear with a gear reduction optimized for highway driving ,so you can imagine how that would be off road without a low range. Because of this, my Rubicon Ecodiesel feels like it has more torque off road than the Rivian when in 4-low . Since these things don’t come with lockers, it relies solely on traction control which is not as well programed as the Wrangler. It takes a lot more wheel spin for it to finally send power to the other wheel and a lot of pedal manipulation to get it to do what you want it to do. Not a comfortable or confidence inspiring feeling.

It is independent suspension all the way around, but it has good articulation considering what it is. While nowhere near a Wrangler’s articulation with the stabilaizer detached, it does a lot better than other independent vehicles I have driven. This is due to not having a stabilizer bar and instead uses adaptive hydraulic system to control body role. A system similar to what the latest McLaren sports car uses. At high speed it resists roles, but at low speed it uses the hydraulic valving to push the other tire down. Very neat, but at the same time probably very expensive and less reliable.

Since the electric motors utilize regenerative braking, going down obstacles is really a non-event. You can customize how much regenerative braking you want with three different modes. In fact, I hardly ever use brakes when driving on-road and just slowly let off the accelerator as I come to a stop. It takes some time to get used to it and found myself stopping way too soon a few times, but after 30 minutes behind the wheel it becomes second nature.

Short distance overlanding and camping would be good with this thing. In camping mode, you can level the vehicle out for sleeping, it has 120v outlets in multiple locations that can actually be used for more than just charging things, storage everywhere including a huge frunk, and of course, you can use the AC at night without disturbing others too much.

Fuel wise, it’s real-world average for the 5k miles she has driven this thing is 2.57 miles per kwh, which is equivalent to 86 mpg. We got a home charger to charge at night when our electric is 6 cents per kwh. Charging her 140 kwh hour battery to full would be $8.47. So, that is real world range of 360 miles for $8.47.

Keep in mind, she did not get this thing to save the planet or even money for that matter. She got it because she is horrible at keeping up with maintenance, hates going to the gas station, and loved the idea of a frunk along with waking up to fully "fueled" vehicle every morning.

Lockers and a low range gear would really help this thing out, but even then, it is hard to get past its 7k curb weight. It is fun and comfortable to drive on roads, but I would still choose my Jeep when going off road. I might take this thing to stay a night on the beach or short camping trip, but any long trips or real off-roading, Ecodiesel all the way.

 

[ALeeL]

nice comparo writeup!
(except for the headlights) i think the Riv is pretty great at what it's for.

i hope to see someone create an electric off-roader with 4-motors (one at each wheel) and portal axles. there's been talk about it for decades, and i think the tech is getting closer to making it a reality.

I am not too fond of the looks of the headlights as well, but their functionality is awesome. They are the first vehicle in the US that have the European adaptive high beams that dim sections of the beam to any oncoming traffic. It is pretty neat to see them in action with sections of the beam dimming as a car gets closer while still having your bright lights on the sides of the road.

There is a quad motor R1S that has a motor at each wheel. That is the 1,025 hp version I mentioned, but it is also $126k. Adding portals would be awesome.

 

[flick2614]

I read your first sentence in the time it took me to fill my tank. I'll read the whole write up when I have hours to kill charging my EV.

 

[WXman]

My wife recently purchased a Rivian R1S dual motor performance with the max battery (410 mile range— per EPA), and I have been itching to take it to our farm to go over several mild obstacles we have out there. Rivian’s are touted as being capable off-road and the R1S can have up to 14.9 inches of ground clearance at max height. I saw a few of these on the easy trails, like Gemeni Bridge, the last time I was in Moab and have been curious on what they can do.

With 665 horsepower / 829 lb-ft of instant torque on tap, this thing is a fun highway and city cruiser. It is unreasonably quick at 3.5 seconds 0-60, and I can’t imagine how the 1,025 hp / 1,198 lb-ft quad motor R1S feels like at 2.6 seconds. Unfortunately, all that torque does not translate to off-road capability.

The dual has one motor in the front axle and another motor in the rear with a gear reduction optimized for highway driving ,so you can imagine how that would be off road without a low range. Because of this, my Rubicon Ecodiesel feels like it has more torque off road than the Rivian when in 4-low . Since these things don’t come with lockers, it relies solely on traction control which is not as well programed as the Wrangler. It takes a lot more wheel spin for it to finally send power to the other wheel and a lot of pedal manipulation to get it to do what you want it to do. Not a comfortable or confidence inspiring feeling.

It is independent suspension all the way around, but it has good articulation considering what it is. While nowhere near a Wrangler’s articulation with the stabilaizer detached, it does a lot better than other independent vehicles I have driven. This is due to not having a stabilizer bar and instead uses adaptive hydraulic system to control body role. A system similar to what the latest McLaren sports car uses. At high speed it resists roles, but at low speed it uses the hydraulic valving to push the other tire down. Very neat, but at the same time probably very expensive and less reliable.

Since the electric motors utilize regenerative braking, going down obstacles is really a non-event. You can customize how much regenerative braking you want with three different modes. In fact, I hardly ever use brakes when driving on-road and just slowly let off the accelerator as I come to a stop. It takes some time to get used to it and found myself stopping way too soon a few times, but after 30 minutes behind the wheel it becomes second nature.

Short distance overlanding and camping would be good with this thing. In camping mode, you can level the vehicle out for sleeping, it has 120v outlets in multiple locations that can actually be used for more than just charging things, storage everywhere including a huge frunk, and of course, you can use the AC at night without disturbing others too much.

Fuel wise, it’s real-world average for the 5k miles she has driven this thing is 2.57 miles per kwh, which is equivalent to 86 mpg. We got a home charger to charge at night when our electric is 6 cents per kwh. Charging her 140 kwh hour battery to full would be $8.47. So, that is real world range of 360 miles for $8.47.

Keep in mind, she did not get this thing to save the planet or even money for that matter. She got it because she is horrible at keeping up with maintenance, hates going to the gas station, and loved the idea of a frunk along with waking up to fully "fueled" vehicle every morning.

Lockers and a low range gear would really help this thing out, but even then, it is hard to get past its 7k curb weight. It is fun and comfortable to drive on roads, but I would still choose my Jeep when going off road. I might take this thing to stay a night on the beach or short camping trip, but any long trips or real off-roading, Ecodiesel all the way.

I spent 6 months and 7k miles with a F-150 Lightning and honestly it spoiled me. There are so many benefits to EV that people would never even think of until they live with one. That is why I'm so interested in the Jeep Recon. Being Trail Rated, it'll handle any of the mild to moderate trails in my area of the country. But it also has removeable doors, top, glass, etc. All the Jeep things. And it'll cost me $10 to "fill it up" here at home. It's a no brainer.

The fact that my new Wrangler keeps spending weeks in the shop is making that decision even easier.

 

[WXman]

I read your first sentence in the time it took me to fill my tank. I'll read the whole write up when I have hours to kill charging my EV.

And his wife will take him out for a steak dinner tonight on that $90 bucks you just put into your tank.

 

[flick2614]

And his wife will take him out for a steak dinner tonight on that $90 bucks you just put into your tank.

With that $96k sticker price? I doubt it. I can still afford some nice steaks after spending last than half of that on my JLURD even after filling my tank multiple times.

 

[Ratbert]

The fact that my new Wrangler keeps spending weeks in the shop is making that decision even easier.

You're thinking a much more technologically-intense vehicle built by the same company won't have those issues?

 

[ALeeL]

I read your first sentence in the time it took me to fill my tank. I'll read the whole write up when I have hours to kill charging my EV.

Wow, it generally takes me at least 5-10 minutes to look for a fuel station, get out of my Jeep, pay at the pump, wait for my tank to fill up, and put everything back to be on my way. I know of a very good reading reading tutor that could get your to reading a sentence in seconds rather than 5-10 minutes. jk....

My wife charges her vehicle at home 99% of the time and only used a fast charger once because we did have the home charger installed yet. When we did use the fast charger, it was at a place we were eating lunch. So we just plugged it in, went in side to eat, and charged from 15% to full by the time we got finished eating. So not much actual time is wasted.

When she charges at home, she literally just pulls into the garage, gets out of the vehicle, the charge door opens by waving your hand across it, and she plugs it in to go about her normal routine after coming home. Then she has a full tank worth of 360 miles of range in the morning and puts the charger back on the receptacle while the door closes itself as she gets in the vehicle. So probably 10-20 seconds of her time is used for the task of charging, and she is not wasting any time waiting for it to charge or fill up since she is just going about here usual day of making me sandwiches ... jk on the last part, don't tell her I said that.

So if my fill-ups were always the minimum 5 minutes once a week, and she charged twice a week wasting 20 seconds of her time each time, then she would come out way ahead on the actual time spent doing and waiting on each task.

Think about it, if you woke up every morning with a full tank of gas or diesel that got you a range of 360 miles, how often would you even need to go to the fuel station? Trust me, I had the same mindset as you before we got this thing, and there were several misconceptions that I believed were true, that this thing debunked once we got it.

 

[ALeeL]

With that $96k sticker price? I doubt it. I can still afford some nice steaks after spending last than half of that on my JLURD even after filling my tank multiple times.

Yeah, i got curious and did the math adding the basics like fuel and maintenance. With current fuel an energy prices, it would take 190k miles for her to come out even on total cost with my Jeep. If I had a $75k Jeep 392 that gets 13 mpg instead of my 25mpg, then it would take less than 100k miles to come out even. Oddly, insurance on the R1S is a few hundred less than my Jeep each month, so that is an additional savings of $2,400 a year not shown below.

However, as stated in my initial post, she did not buy it for cost savings. If she did not buy the R1S, then her second choice was the Lexus GX550 Overtrail+, and I would have done the same kind of comparison on that versus my Jeep.

She put 215k on her last vehicle before I made her trade it in. The Rivian battery has a 175k warranty and there already several examples of the RIS having 200k and still going , so chances are pretty good she will get to the break even point versus my Jeep.

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