Money Pit Monday

[Terrymo]

@chevymitchell
Thanks for posting all those pics. Beautiful work as always.
Done right, how many hours should I expect a shop to charge for the front? And the rear?

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[chevymitchell]

@chevymitchell
Thanks for posting all those pics. Beautiful work as always.
Done right, how many hours should I expect a shop to charge for the front? And the rear?

As you can imagine, it's harder to answer than one would think.

Couple of considerations:

Front

• Is the shop going to try and weld with the axle in and populated with the carrier?
  • If so, then expect 4-6 hours depending on the amount of time they spend prepping.
  • If a shop says they will do this with the axle in and populated, please find someone else. Lol. You cannot access everything with it installed and welding with carrier bearings installed is risky at best and not a good practice. Besides, you cannot heat the axle to ~400 degrees for your preheat properly with it installed either which means the welds will likely crack during the cool down period.
• If they remove the axle and depopulate, then expect closer to 7-10 hours billable.

Rear

• The rear is much easier but the right thing to do is to depopulate still. You can heat everything you need to and weld with the axle installed but they'll need to depopulate so not to bake the sensor, breather tube, and so they can see their penetration depth through the housing on the inside. I use this as an indicator on weld temp so I know it's getting through the cast properly. All of the oil will need to be wiped off the inside of the housing as to not bake it, as well. Again, if the shop won't depopulate, find someone else.
• You can bank on about 4-7 hours billable for the rear.

All this plus consumables and shops will have different rates depending on how many welders they have, how much they charge for welding time (usually different than labor rate) and then paint, acetone, etc...

It's not cheap paying someone else to do it, especially if their rates are $130+ these days. Mine is
$80 and I charge the same for welding. Consumables are billed at actual plus 10% for welding stuff.

Of course, this is all ball park and can vary wildly depending on where you live and whatnot.

 

[Terrymo]

As you can imagine, it's harder to answer than one would think.

Couple of considerations:

Front

• Is the shop going to try and weld with the axle in and populated with the carrier?
  • If so, then expect 4-6 hours depending on the amount of time they spend prepping.
  • If a shop says they will do this with the axle in and populated, please find someone else. Lol. You cannot access everything with it installed and welding with carrier bearings installed is risky at best and not a good practice. Besides, you cannot heat the axle to ~400 degrees for your preheat properly with it installed either which means the welds will likely crack during the cool down period.
• If they remove the axle and depopulate, then expect closer to 7-10 hours billable.

Rear

• The rear is much easier but the right thing to do is to depopulate still. You can heat everything you need to and weld with the axle installed but they'll need to depopulate so not to bake the sensor, breather tube, and so they can see their penetration depth through the housing on the inside. I use this as an indicator on weld temp so I know it's getting through the cast properly. All of the oil will need to be wiped off the inside of the housing as to not bake it, as well. Again, if the shop won't depopulate, find someone else.
• You can bank on about 4-7 hours billable for the rear.

All this plus consumables and shops will have different rates depending on how many welders they have, how much they charge for welding time (usually different than labor rate) and then paint, acetone, etc...

It's not cheap paying someone else to do it, especially if their rates are $130+ these days. Mine is
$80 and I charge the same for welding. Consumables are billed at actual plus 10% for welding stuff.

Of course, this is all ball park and can vary wildly depending on where you live and whatnot.

Thank you for taking the time to put all that info together. I appreciate it.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I would have never recognized you in that blue shirt. I figured you more for a red shirt.

 

[roaniecowpony]

As you can imagine, it's harder to answer than one would think.

Couple of considerations:

Front

• Is the shop going to try and weld with the axle in and populated with the carrier?
  • If so, then expect 4-6 hours depending on the amount of time they spend prepping.
  • If a shop says they will do this with the axle in and populated, please find someone else. Lol. You cannot access everything with it installed and welding with carrier bearings installed is risky at best and not a good practice. Besides, you cannot heat the axle to ~400 degrees for your preheat properly with it installed either which means the welds will likely crack during the cool down period.
• If they remove the axle and depopulate, then expect closer to 7-10 hours billable.

Rear

• The rear is much easier but the right thing to do is to depopulate still. You can heat everything you need to and weld with the axle installed but they'll need to depopulate so not to bake the sensor, breather tube, and so they can see their penetration depth through the housing on the inside. I use this as an indicator on weld temp so I know it's getting through the cast properly. All of the oil will need to be wiped off the inside of the housing as to not bake it, as well. Again, if the shop won't depopulate, find someone else.
• You can bank on about 4-7 hours billable for the rear.

All this plus consumables and shops will have different rates depending on how many welders they have, how much they charge for welding time (usually different than labor rate) and then paint, acetone, etc...

It's not cheap paying someone else to do it, especially if their rates are $130+ these days. Mine is
$80 and I charge the same for welding. Consumables are billed at actual plus 10% for welding stuff.

Of course, this is all ball park and can vary wildly depending on where you live and whatnot.

Do you think it's a good idea to normalize it all after the welding is done?

 

[Terrymo]

I would have never recognized you in that blue shirt. I figured you more for a red shirt.

I do like a little variety in my wardrobe.

 

[chevymitchell]

Do you think it's a good idea to normalize it all after the welding is done?

Not at all. One is carbon steel and the other in cast form. Normalizing won’t improve anything in this application. Just cool it with blankets or bring both down to about 150 degrees together. You’re done after that.

 

[jellis4148]

Dana UD60's, and MC Bolt on Long arm. My bank account is on life support.

 

[3TV]

As you can imagine, it's harder to answer than one would think.

Couple of considerations:

Front

• Is the shop going to try and weld with the axle in and populated with the carrier?
  • If so, then expect 4-6 hours depending on the amount of time they spend prepping.
  • If a shop says they will do this with the axle in and populated, please find someone else. Lol. You cannot access everything with it installed and welding with carrier bearings installed is risky at best and not a good practice. Besides, you cannot heat the axle to ~400 degrees for your preheat properly with it installed either which means the welds will likely crack during the cool down period.
• If they remove the axle and depopulate, then expect closer to 7-10 hours billable.

Rear

• The rear is much easier but the right thing to do is to depopulate still. You can heat everything you need to and weld with the axle installed but they'll need to depopulate so not to bake the sensor, breather tube, and so they can see their penetration depth through the housing on the inside. I use this as an indicator on weld temp so I know it's getting through the cast properly. All of the oil will need to be wiped off the inside of the housing as to not bake it, as well. Again, if the shop won't depopulate, find someone else.
• You can bank on about 4-7 hours billable for the rear.

All this plus consumables and shops will have different rates depending on how many welders they have, how much they charge for welding time (usually different than labor rate) and then paint, acetone, etc...

It's not cheap paying someone else to do it, especially if their rates are $130+ these days. Mine is
$80 and I charge the same for welding. Consumables are billed at actual plus 10% for welding stuff.

Of course, this is all ball park and can vary wildly depending on where you live and whatnot.

I'm in the process of looking for axles for my 392, so I couldn't help but do the math, with my shop charging $135/hr for labor. Installing Reid knuckles, an Artec axle armor kit, RCV axle shafts, and re-gearing of the Rubicon 44 in the front would cost $6300. That is if they could do it right.

A Currie 44 axle assembly is listed for $5444, with what they claim as a reinforced center section, 3" diameter, 0.5" wall thickness tubes, 4340 chromoly axles, cast iron inner knuckles, and an Eaton locker. You would want to add Reid outer knuckles to this, so add another $500.

A Currie HD 60 axle with the same locker is listed for $6918

I'm a newbie. School me on why one is better.

 

[chevymitchell]

I'm in the process of looking for axles for my 392, so I couldn't help but do the math, with my shop charging $135/hr for labor. Installing Reid knuckles, an Artec axle armor kit, RCV axle shafts, and re-gearing of the Rubicon 44 in the front would cost $6300. That is if they could do it right.

A Currie 44 axle assembly is listed for $5444, with what they claim as a reinforced center section, 3" diameter, 0.5" wall thickness tubes, 4340 chromoly axles, cast iron inner knuckles, and an Eaton locker. You would want to add Reid outer knuckles to this, so add another $500.

A Currie HD 60 axle with the same locker is listed for $6918

I'm a newbie. School me on why one is better.

A lot of the costs of building up the axle overlap. So, it’s not linear or cumulative with one cost on top of another.

For example, if depopulating the axle to build it up, you wouldn’t charge twice for the labor of taking the guts out to regear. The regear cost would come down considerably.

Same with shafts. Labor for RCV install, I would charge $0 since the shafts come out to depopulate.

There are several costs like this where you won’t be paying as much as you think.

I’d redo your math with this in mind and you’ll come up with a clearer answer for keeping the stock housing or not. Otherwise, more you spend, the more innovation and beef you get.

 

[chevymitchell]

A lot of the costs of building up the axle overlap. So, it’s not linear or cumulative with one cost on top of another.

For example, if depopulating the axle to build it up, you wouldn’t charge twice for the labor of taking the guts out to regear. The regear cost would come down considerably.

Same with shafts. Labor for RCV install, I would charge $0 since the shafts come out to depopulate.

There are several costs like this where you won’t be paying as much as you think.

I’d redo your math with this in mind and you’ll come up with a clearer answer for keeping the stock housing or not. Otherwise, more you spend, the more innovation and beef you get.

With all that said, I think I charged this customer $3300 - 3600 for front and rear. Regear, trusses, etc… the whole job minus parts. I can’t remember. I’d have to go back and look.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Not at all. One is carbon steel and the other in cast form. Normalizing won’t improve anything in this application. Just cool it with blankets or bring both down to about 150 degrees together. You’re done after that.

I have Dynatrac balljoints in there now. I'd put a rebuild kit in when I did this anyway. But, would you leave the bodies pressed in while welding the "C" gussets?

 

[dstevens]

Just like the top ten tech companies are driving the whole stock market with things like ridiculous investments in AI, Jeep owners are driving the whole automotive after-market. One axle at a time.

You can weld the Cs with the ball joints in but you have to take care. Mine were still going after 50,000 miles or more on 35s (vehicle since sold).

With welding I think most shops like to hit them with a MIG welder and weld them all in one go. I did my axle 'Cs' with TIG, with the smallest arc I could manage with a lot of time spent blowing air on the parts, and so did not had to push out any bushings or ball joints or anything. My rule of thumb is that if I can not keep my hand on the part next to it then the part or weld is getting too hot (and I don't wear gloves welding). But it probably took 10 times longer to do the job.

 

[chevymitchell]

I have Dynatrac balljoints in there now. I'd put a rebuild kit in when I did this anyway. But, would you leave the bodies pressed in while welding the "C" gussets?

Yeah. No issue there. There's so much material to eat up the heat, the ball joints won't be affected at all.

 

[Tr4ckD4ys]

i have an ex wife, 2 kids and a gf w/ 2 kids.

Man hang in there that sounds so expensive than I wouldnt even want to experience that in my nightmares

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