Manual Transmission - Issues shifting into 1st & Reverse (Compilation thread)

[eastern]

you pretty much nailed it.... although the noise was groaning, not moaning and that was pre-vibration

:D
Thank you for a good laugh, I needed it.

Will give this creativity a try, my ACT started acting up again and I'm struggling to get Into the gears. I have redone the job, and now just like the last time, it happened at 8000 mile mark.

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[bmpcamry09]

Just make sure you clean those things back up before you put them back in the wife's night stand

 

[Toycrusher]

Just an update, I have over 10k miles on the latest Centerforce dual friction clutch with internal slave, and it has been flawless. Buttery smooth take-up engagement on the clutch, not a hint of notchiness into 1st or 2nd, and of course the wonderful and effortless low end torque sensation that comes with a single high mass flywheel.

I can't tell you what they did differently but my JLUR has been a real pleasure to drive again. And for anyone with durability concerns, I have 70k miles now (90k total) on a set of 37" KO2s and they still run smooth and have a bit of tread left. All this is with stock 4.10 gears and suspension. Shocks will need replacement soon but overall, this generation of Jeep has been incredibly reliable especially considering it is the first year 2018.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Just an update, I have over 10k miles on the latest Centerforce dual friction clutch with internal slave, and it has been flawless. Buttery smooth take-up engagement on the clutch, not a hint of notchiness into 1st or 2nd, and of course the wonderful and effortless low end torque sensation that comes with a single high mass flywheel.

I can't tell you what they did differently but my JLUR has been a real pleasure to drive again. And for anyone with durability concerns, I have 70k miles now (90k total) on a set of 37" KO2s and they still run smooth and have a bit of tread left. All this is with stock 4.10 gears and suspension. Shocks will need replacement soon but overall, this generation of Jeep has been incredibly reliable especially considering it is the first year 2018.

I think your experience with the internal slave throwout bearing makes a good case that the issues with the conventional thowout bearing in ACT and other make clutches, is about the friction of the throwout bearing on the trans snout and the added force of the pressure plate.

 

[Toycrusher]

I think your experience with the internal slave throwout bearing makes a good case that the issues with the conventional thowout bearing in ACT and other make clutches, is about the friction of the throwout bearing on the trans snout and the added force of the pressure plate.

Unfortunately not that simple. I ran a couple different clutches with the internal slave and they developed the same dragging/sticking issue within the first few thousand miles. Centerforce also reports they are having the same success with this last couple clutch disc designs with the external slave.
The issue, in simplest form, is that the disc would stay stuck at engine rpm when the clutch was disengaged, making shifts very difficult or impossible. These newer designs no longer stay stuck to the flywheel/pressure plate upon disengagement which allows the transmission input shaft to slow down and let's the synchros do their job and engage your gear of choice.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Unfortunately not that simple. I ran a couple different clutches with the internal slave and they developed the same dragging/sticking issue within the first few thousand miles. Centerforce also reports they are having the same success with this last couple clutch disc designs with the external slave.
The issue, in simplest form, is that the disc would stay stuck at engine rpm when the clutch was disengaged, making shifts very difficult or impossible. These newer designs no longer stay stuck to the flywheel/pressure plate upon disengagement which allows the transmission input shaft to slow down and let's the synchros do their job and engage your gear of choice.

At least with what I've seen messing with SadRobot's ACT clutch, I don't believe they have a pressure plate or disk issue, since they work fine for a while after using the magic grease on the throwout bearing, then start getting the gritchy noise she was describing, and the dragging disk. Pull the trans, lube and all is fine again.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Just an update, I have over 10k miles on the latest Centerforce dual friction clutch with internal slave, and it has been flawless. Buttery smooth take-up engagement on the clutch, not a hint of notchiness into 1st or 2nd, and of course the wonderful and effortless low end torque sensation that comes with a single high mass flywheel.

I can't tell you what they did differently but my JLUR has been a real pleasure to drive again. And for anyone with durability concerns, I have 70k miles now (90k total) on a set of 37" KO2s and they still run smooth and have a bit of tread left. All this is with stock 4.10 gears and suspension. Shocks will need replacement soon but overall, this generation of Jeep has been incredibly reliable especially considering it is the first year 2018.

I’ve got fewer than 10k on my CFII with internal slave. Unfortunately, I do have notchiness in 1st. No where near as bad as my ACT was. Never stuck in gear, just finicky about getting into first after a full stop.

Buttery-smooth uptake, for sure. Pedal feel is perfect.

 

[RubiSc0tt]

So if someone has the issues with the ACT- groaning, not going into gear well... overall, what would others suggest?

I have the ACT Jp6... kit w/ Flywheel. I've been getting the groaning for a while and it's starting to get inconsistent going into 1/2/R. Jeep stats are in my signature, it is a daily driver.

i've read the changes CF have made, and I hear there are still issues on and off. What about South Bend? Is the redesigned south bend the silver bullet fix?

or should I just trade for an Auto at this point?

 

[azwjowner]

So if someone has the issues with the ACT- groaning, not going into gear well... overall, what would others suggest?

I have the ACT Jp6... kit w/ Flywheel. I've been getting the groaning for a while and it's starting to get inconsistent going into 1/2/R. Jeep stats are in my signature, it is a daily driver.

i've read the changes CF have made, and I hear there are still issues on and off. What about South Bend? Is the redesigned south bend the silver bullet fix?

or should I just trade for an Auto at this point?

I’m subscribed to all the manual clutch threads and have read every post. They all have some issues. My plan is to replace with another OEM clutch, at least until someone figures out what the real problem is.

 

[roaniecowpony]

So if someone has the issues with the ACT- groaning, not going into gear well... overall, what would others suggest?

I have the ACT Jp6... kit w/ Flywheel. I've been getting the groaning for a while and it's starting to get inconsistent going into 1/2/R. Jeep stats are in my signature, it is a daily driver.

i've read the changes CF have made, and I hear there are still issues on and off. What about South Bend? Is the redesigned south bend the silver bullet fix?

or should I just trade for an Auto at this point?

Well, the auto is the single best transmission I've ever owned. But to your question about the clutch, I'd contact Dirk at ACT and express your issue with the clutch. He was going to change something last year. I haven't heard anymore about them changing anything.

 

[RubiSc0tt]

I’m subscribed to all the manual clutch threads and have read every post. They all have some issues. My plan is to replace with another OEM clutch, at least until someone figures out what the real problem is.

i think the problem is it's several problems and with the variance of the processes with people DIYing/ Shops, driving styles conditions, and builds, there are ultimately too may variables to really zero in.

Well, the auto is the single best transmission I've ever owned. But to your question about the clutch, I'd contact Dirk at ACT and express your issue with the clutch. He was going to change something last year. I haven't heard anymore about them changing anything.

I'll have to check in to that. Where was that referenced? Maybe I can drop them an email or something.

That said- I've also been shopping all the online places, and entertaining other (auto transmission) options.

 

[Toycrusher]

So if someone has the issues with the ACT- groaning, not going into gear well... overall, what would others suggest?

I have the ACT Jp6... kit w/ Flywheel. I've been getting the groaning for a while and it's starting to get inconsistent going into 1/2/R. Jeep stats are in my signature, it is a daily driver.

i've read the changes CF have made, and I hear there are still issues on and off. What about South Bend? Is the redesigned south bend the silver bullet fix?

or should I just trade for an Auto at this point?

A bad manual is still more engaging than the best automatic.

 

[roaniecowpony]

i think the problem is it's several problems and with the variance of the processes with people DIYing/ Shops, driving styles conditions, and builds, there are ultimately too may variables to really zero in.


I'll have to check in to that. Where was that referenced? Maybe I can drop them an email or something.

That said- I've also been shopping all the online places, and entertaining other (auto transmission) options.

I don't know where it was referenced. SadRobot told me in person, about the conversation she had with Dirk.

 

[Toycrusher]

The symptom is difficulty shifting into low gears

The cause is a clutch disc that is still spinning at or near engine rpm even though the pressure plate has been disengaged and is no longer applying pressure

Figuring out the cause of the cause has been the challenge. Common ideas are that it Could be sticking splines on the input shaft or it Could be a clutch hose ballooning and not fully disengaging the clutch.

I think It could simply be insufficient drag on the input shaft from exceptionally low drag bearings meaning there's not enough drag to break the imbedded friction the last time the clutch disc was clamped down on by the pressure plate .
It's been a fairly unprecedented cause of a cause

 

[roaniecowpony]

The symptom is difficulty shifting into low gears

The cause is a clutch disc that is still spinning at or near engine rpm even though the pressure plate has been disengaged and is no longer applying pressure

Figuring out the cause of the cause has been the challenge. Common ideas are that it Could be sticking splines on the input shaft or it Could be a clutch hose ballooning and not fully disengaging the clutch.

I think It could simply be insufficient drag on the input shaft from exceptionally low drag bearings meaning there's not enough drag to break the imbedded friction the last time the clutch disc was clamped down on by the pressure plate .
It's been a fairly unprecedented cause of a cause

I think the clutch pressure plate and disk is a well traveled path for over 100 years. The pressure plate and disk used by ACT on the JL is not a unique design, nor are the materials. My thoughts from observing one ACT JL and trying to bleed it over the course of days, is that this is a simple issue of deflection of the components that move the throwout bearing. The cause of the deflection, I believe is the added forces of the ACT pressure plate, on the actuation components. A contributing factor may be the plastic body of the throwout bearing heating up and having higher friction on the transmission snout.

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