M/T a bit frustrating

[KPersCO]

When it comes to JLs (and JKs) since they have different gears and weights from the factory everyone's experience is so different. I drove a JKU, 3.6, with the 3.73 gear at altitude for 4 years and the JL with the 4.10 is much better in every way. The what are you comparing it too question really is the only question I have for most people that lament this transmission. I've recommended the manual to lots of people but always tell them to test drive it because their Jeep will more than likely be very different than mine.

The 3.6 has always been a high reeving engine from design so don't be afraid to let the RPM's climb!

Just my 2 cents I always think these manual threads are interesting to say the least.

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[8flat]

Why do you need pulling power below 2000 RPM if the transmission is geared accordingly? Have you been off-road yet? This things a dream on the trails and I'm coming from a '99 TJ 5 speed with the 4.0L.

As you know, it doesn't automatically start making good torque at 2k. Even at 3k it's pretty gutless.

And in reverse, which is way too high geared, you cannot run it above 2k because you'd be going wayyyyyyyy to damn fast, especially with a trailer, haha.

Off road they're good in 4LO, yes, but you cannot argue that the perfect engine for off-road is one that makes great off-idle torque. Not sure how anyone can argue this. Hence why the 4.0 was so popular.

So, it makes no sense to go with a high-RPM engine in this application.

PS: the area where I really had issues was stuck in wet snow. Engine didn't have enough power to spin the wheels over fast when going back and forth trying to get out of a really long deep area of snow. 4LO was wayyy too low geared for any tire speed, and 4HI the engine didn't have enough torque to get the wheels spinning. It was frustrating.

 

[8flat]

When it comes to JLs (and JKs) since they have different gears and weights from the factory everyone's experience is so different. I drove a JKU, 3.6, with the 3.73 gear at altitude for 4 years and the JL with the 4.10 is much better in every way. The what are you comparing it too question really is the only question I have for most people that lament this transmission. I've recommended the manual to lots of people but always tell them to test drive it because their Jeep will more than likely be very different than mine.

The 3.6 has always been a high reeving engine from design so don't be afraid to let the RPM's climb!

Just my 2 cents I always think these manual threads are interesting to say the least.

Very true. Once I figured out that in order to pass someone on the highway I need to shift to 3rd, my trips were much less frustrating, haha. 6th to 3rd then back to 6th!

 

[8flat]

A Jeep is not a Porsche or a BMW. It is a JEEP. (Or at least, I had hoped it would be.) It should have pulling power at lower RPM. It doesn't. It particularly hates 1600 to 1700. Above that, it's okay; and if you hadn't noticed, BELOW that isn't bad, should you have occasion to try it. I don't make a habit of it, but it will run smoother in 4th at 34 mph than it will in fourth at 40!!!. This means it is a bad tune, bad design, whatever. The 3.6 is also so mechanically full of bad sounds that I hate revving it; as it seems like it will blow apart. My TJ with the anemic, 120 hp, N/A four cylinder, would out pull the 3.6 below 2000 rpm all day long. If I'd wanted a Lexus, I would have bought a Lexus.

Yeah it's so strange they went with this high strung 3.6 for this application. I think the ideal V6 would be our 3.6 with a stroker kit, and a 5k redline. Cam and valve timing setup for off-idle torque. Slightly less compression to lessen the surging at low RPMs and make it easier to "lug" the engine down.
Or, just a hemi would have been nice, haha.

 

[jdubya421]

Yeah it's so strange they went with this high strung 3.6 for this application. I think the ideal V6 would be our 3.6 with a stroker kit, and a 5k redline. Cam and valve timing setup for off-idle torque. Slightly less compression to lessen the surging at low RPMs and make it easier to "lug" the engine down.
Or, just a hemi would have been nice, haha.

Doesn't seem strange to me. At the end of the day a Jeep is a car to a lot of people (GASP I know "its not a car"). The current setup in Sport models particularly is a great car on the road and a good Jeep off the road. The high gear ratio of first (5.13) allows the lower 2.72:1 transfer case and 3.45 diff in 4 low to still crawl and work great off road, and the other taller gear ratios allow it to get good MPG on the road. This is also why the Rubicon is still the ultimate factory Jeep. You get the shorter 4.10 diff and the 4:1 transfer case - meaning it feels a bit more like a Jeep on the road and is an even better Jeep off the road.

My Sport gets great gas mileage and shifts really well. I almost "forget" I am driving a Jeep because its so smooth and basically feels like a car. When I take it off the road it still performs well. You can let the speedo fall to 0 and not stall in 4 low so it definitely has enough torque and power for both on and off road.

 

[8flat]

Doesn't seem strange to me. At the end of the day a Jeep is a car to a lot of people (GASP I know "its not a car"). The current setup in Sport models particularly is a great car on the road and a good Jeep off the road. The high gear ratio of first (5.13) allows the lower 2.72:1 transfer case and 3.45 diff in 4 low to still crawl and work great off road, and the other taller gear ratios allow it to get good MPG on the road. This is also why the Rubicon is still the ultimate factory Jeep. You get the shorter 4.10 diff and the 4:1 transfer case - meaning it feels a bit more like a Jeep on the road and is an even better Jeep off the road.

My Sport gets great gas mileage and shifts really well. I almost "forget" I am driving a Jeep because its so smooth and basically feels like a car. When I take it off the road it still performs well. You can let the speedo fall to 0 and not stall in 4 low so it definitely has enough torque and power for both on and off road.

99% of trucks are used like cars, yet they still have high-torque motors. And nobody wants the trucks with N/A V6 option. Why? Because people want torque.

Try to find a used half ton with an N/A V6, good luck. Nobody wants that shit.

 

[jdubya421]

99% of trucks are used like cars, yet they still have high-torque motors. And nobody wants the trucks with N/A V6 option. Why? Because people want torque.

Try to find a used half ton with an N/A V6, good luck. Nobody wants that shit.

A Jeep isn't a truck. When the truck is being driven like a car it is a good car and when used like a truck its a good truck. Exact same analogy for the Jeep - except you missed the point where it was car and Jeep vs. car and truck. The JL wrangler is a good car and a good Jeep. The reason trucks have a ton of torque is usually for payload and towing. Would you take an F-150 off the road? No? Then don't compare it to the Wrangler. The JL has plenty enough HP and torque to move itself up a rock or move it self down the highway.

 

[word302]

A Jeep isn't a truck. When the truck is being driven like a car it is a good car and when used like a truck its a good truck. Exact same analogy for the Jeep - except you missed the point where it was car and Jeep vs. car and truck. The JL wrangler is a good car and a good Jeep. The reason trucks have a ton of torque is usually for payload and towing. Would you take an F-150 off the road? No? Then don't compare it to the Wrangler. The JL has plenty enough HP and torque to move itself up a rock or move it self down the highway.

I wonder if he's even been off-road in this horrible piece of machinery.

 

[8flat]

A Jeep isn't a truck. When the truck is being driven like a car it is a good car and when used like a truck its a good truck. Exact same analogy for the Jeep - except you missed the point where it was car and Jeep vs. car and truck. The JL wrangler is a good car and a good Jeep. The reason trucks have a ton of torque is usually for payload and towing. Would you take an F-150 off the road? No? Then don't compare it to the Wrangler. The JL has plenty enough HP and torque to move itself up a rock or move it self down the highway.

HAHA tons of people take their trucks off road. Besides, the jeep has a full frame and a towing package. To argue it should have a high-strung car engine is crazy talk.

If it were offered with an engine with torque, everyone besides the soccer moms would option it that way. Hell probably even the soccer moms. Look at all the SUVs with V8s.

If they offered a 5.7hemi in the wrangler, most people would be driving hemi jeeps.

Look at the Gladiator, same exact issue. Slapping a tow rating of 7,600lbs on that rig is laughable.

 

[8flat]

I wonder if he's even been off-road in this horrible piece of machinery.

Yes, and it's been great except when I was buried in wet snow. Too gutless to keep wheel speed up. #notorque

 

[jdubya421]

HAHA tons of people take their trucks off road. Besides, the jeep has a full frame and a towing package. To argue it should have a high-strung car engine is crazy talk.

If it were offered with an engine with torque, everyone besides the soccer moms would option it that way. Hell probably even the soccer moms. Look at all the SUVs with V8s.

If they offered a 5.7hemi in the wrangler, most people would be driving hemi jeeps.

Look at the Gladiator, same exact issue. Slapping a tow rating of 7,600lbs on that rig is laughable.

I know that people take their trucks off road. I have seen Tacos out perform Jeeps. Have you ever seen a stock F-150 out wheel a stock Sport Wrangler? It is irrelevant any way.

You can get a tow package on a Wrangler, sure, but at the end of the day you are doing truck things with a Jeep. It can do it just fine, so many people tow with their Jeeps, but the thing it does best is be a Jeep.

It is obvious your mind isn't changing. I love my Jeep and my transmission. Do I want 4.88s? Yeah of course. Would I hemi swap my Jeep? Hell yes. Is my current motor fine and performs all the tasks it should in an enjoyable way? Also yes.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Yes, and it's been great except when I was buried in wet snow. Too gutless to keep wheel speed up. #notorque

Sounds like you need a LS

 

[8flat]

Sounds like you need a LS

Yes, or a hemi. The OCD part of me would rather it all stay FCA, but LS engines are cheaper, smaller, and have better aftermarket support. Probably a pipe dream either way.

 

[8flat]

I don't have any issues backing my trailers.

Try to back up a 2k lb trailer on a slight incline. You'll either a. slip the clutch the entire time, or b. go way too fast to be safe.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Yes, or a hemi. The OCD part of me would rather it all stay FCA, but LS engines are cheaper, smaller, and have better aftermarket support. Probably a pipe dream either way.

Hear LS' have power throughout the band, another reason to swap one in

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