Long introduction...

[Buschman]

If you're really desiring to run some of the fun trails in Moab and do the Rubicon, it's tough to beat the Wrangler.

Yes, you have to dump a bunch of money into a newer Toyota to do the Rubicon or Moab beyond fins and things without destroying it!

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[guarnibl]

Thank you all for the replies I apricate it!



Doing the math my 18k commute miles with a realistic 15mpg vs 22mpg. (Toyota vs 3.0 or 3.6 vs 3.0) $4 a gallon = $127 per month diesel savings on fuel assuming both fuels are $4. The oil changes, Def and fuel filters will eat into that savings. All fossil fuels will only go up unless the 51% wake up, unlikely. The torque is a factor in choosing the 3.0 too, diesels are awesome as long as their working properly. There is something really neat about not downshifting constantly.

If you're very light on throttle and using AT's instead of MT's, 22 is probably a fair estimate.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

The only thing I would put near a Jeep Wrangler is a serious 4Runner Toyota. The Taco Engine is shit, 3.5 coughatkins.

 

[Buschman]

I take the view that electronics and emissions plumbing encumber every new vehicle, not just diesels. With that in mind, I wouldn't let this reality cloud my purchase decision.

But one thing I'll repeat -- all vehicles these days are throwaways irrespective of manufacturer including Toyota. Gone are the days of keeping a vehicle for 15+ years IMO. Too many electronics and things to fail.

I agree, this was my thought on having a toy that I rack up a bunch of miles on going to work. Put 100k-150k in 5-6 years, sell and move on. No worries about scratches, rock chips or becoming a rattle trap after lots of dirt miles.
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[guarnibl]

I agree, this was my thought on having a toy that I rack up a bunch of miles on going to work. Put 100k-150k in 5-6 years, sell and move on. No worries about scratches, rock chips or becoming a rattle trap after lots of dirt miles.
.

Yep, agreed with that approach entirely.

 

[Buschman]

The only thing I would put near a Jeep Wrangler is a serious 4Runner Toyota. The Taco Engine is shit, 3.5 coughatkins.

3.5 sucks but the 4.0 is not much better. Bought a new 2016 4runner for my wife and we kept it for 4 years. Put a level kit and 32's on it, not impressed. Poor MPGs and lots of downshifting. Any Toyota engine (probably any gas engine) is better behind a manual transmission, I just don't think I want a manual for a DD now that I'm in my 40's.

Never one problem though, no warranty issues for anything in four years. Of course, we sold it right before this gigantic vehicle shortage began. Could have got what we paid new today...

 

[Buschman]

I should probably start a new thread, or two with some other questions. Guessing my title probably won't get everyone's attention. But I'll start here anyhow.

I stopped by my local dealer this afternoon to sit in a base model sport to compare the interior to the Rubicon I drove yesterday. My baseline thoughts before searching this forum...

Gas model the Rubicon's best feature is 4.10s. 3.0 only has 373s. Lockers: I've already read about some people's factory locker problems plus I assume like Toyota, in the name of safety they only engage in 4low. Lame! Transfer case question? For hardcore rock crawling which I would be doing very little, is the 4:1 transfer case that necessary with an 8 speed automatic transmission and low rpm diesel torque? I figure save the money on a Rubicon, purchase a Sport, install 4:10s and aftermarket lockers. Not to concerned about electronic sway bar disconnect.

I asked the dealer today about purchasing a beyond factory warranty and if my plans would void the warranty. As in: do gears and lockers effect the motor and emissions system warranty or only void the axles? He said lifts and tires are ok but changing the R&P and lockers would void the warranty on non-related items such as the engine. Thanks for being honest but WTF!

 

[guarnibl]

I should probably start a new thread, or two with some other questions. Guessing my title probably won't get everyone's attention. But I'll start here anyhow.

I stopped by my local dealer this afternoon to sit in a base model sport to compare the interior to the Rubicon I drove yesterday. My baseline thoughts before searching this forum...

Gas model the Rubicon's best feature is 4.10s. 3.0 only has 373s. Lockers: I've already read about some people's factory locker problems plus I assume like Toyota, in the name of safety they only engage in 4low. Lame! Transfer case question? For hardcore rock crawling which I would be doing very little, is the 4:1 transfer case that necessary with an 8 speed automatic transmission and low rpm diesel torque? I figure save the money on a Rubicon, purchase a Sport, install 4:10s and aftermarket lockers. Not to concerned about electronic sway bar disconnect.

I asked the dealer today about purchasing a beyond factory warranty and if my plans would void the warranty. As in: do gears and lockers effect the motor and emissions system warranty or only void the axles? He said lifts and tires are ok but changing the R&P and lockers would void the warranty on non-related items such as the engine. Thanks for being honest but WTF!

- You don't need gears for 37's (period). Just drop the idea of ever touching the axle at all with the ecodiesel for gears. It's just not needed.
- The anti-spin differential does amazingly well nowadays. I don't think a locker is necessary -- but it does make it easier if you're going to run some harder trails with tough climbs. But in those situations to be honest a front locker comes in just as useful IMO.
- You can engage the rear locker in 4hi with offroad+ when you have the Rubicon.
- Tcase is not a necessity.
- Electronic swaybar disconnect is not a necessity.

Sport w/ diesel and anti-spin gives you D44's front/rear with 3.73's. $41k.
Sport S w/ diesel and anti-spin gives you D44's front/rear with 3.73's. $45k.
Rubicon w/ diesel gives you everything but is $51k.

If you can live with manual locks/windows, you're saving $10k by not getting a locker essentially and gives you flexibility to add one (they're 44's front/rear) later. This is the sweet spot. I think at $45k I'm just spending $51k and getting everything.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

I have owned both 4Runner and many Jeeps. The 4.0 Toyota is nothing to brag about but it will last 300k miles. Probably one of the best engines for the buck ever built. Great engine that is why they kept it so long.

The 4Runner is the only close competition.

Don't Wranglers ride Broncos?

 

[Yogi]

Don't Wranglers ride Broncos?

Practically speaking ... Wranglers ride broncos into submission

 

[Shibadog]

The 3.0 is a good engine, my 16 Ram 4x4 EcoD will break 30 pretty easy on the slab. Jeep should do as well. A box stock Jeep (esp a Rubicon) is a very capable vehicle and will do anything 99% of people are capable off. I’d stick with the stock 33’s and enjoy the mpg’s AND the Jeep. FWIW a sport or Sahara with limited slip is also pretty darn capable and will do better on the road than a Rubi because of gearing alone. Lots of folks spend lots of $$ for a “look” or to “upgrade” while having no actual knowledge of what their “stock” little Jeep will do. Stock Jeeps, with far less capability than todays base model, were traveling all the trails in this country decades before the first Rubicon ever rolled off an assembly line. Get what you like but know what you have. You don’t need a ton of aftermarket stuff to take a Wrangler off road…

 

[guarnibl]

The 3.0 is a good engine, my 16 Ram 4x4 EcoD will break 30 pretty easy on the slab. Jeep should do as well. A box stock Jeep (esp a Rubicon) is a very capable vehicle and will do anything 99% of people are capable off. I’d stick with the stock 33’s and enjoy the mpg’s AND the Jeep. FWIW a sport or Sahara with limited slip is also pretty darn capable and will do better on the road than a Rubi because of gearing alone. Lots of folks spend lots of $$ for a “look” or to “upgrade” while having no actual knowledge of what their “stock” little Jeep will do. Stock Jeeps, with far less capability than todays base model, were traveling all the trails in this country decades before the first Rubicon ever rolled off an assembly line. Get what you like but know what you have. You don’t need a ton of aftermarket stuff to take a Wrangler off road…

Agree 100%.

Only thing to point out is that all models now have the same gearing should you opt for the ecodiesel

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