Jeep Clubs Liability?

[MtCamper]

I'm a member of a Jeep club. We are not incorporated but do have club officers and by-laws. I occasionally lead runs and often spot or winch others. What, if any, liability is incurred a result of Jeep club activity. I'm aware that we can sue anyone for anything at anytime, God Bless America. Specifically, do I need some type of insurance beyond my vehicle and homeowners policy?

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[azwjowner]

Yes, you should have a personal umbrella policy. I suggest at least $2 million In coverage. They aren’t particularly expensive.

 

[Some Random Guy]

I can’t answer the Jeep specific part, but generally an umbrella policy is the next step after auto, health, and home are covered. Specifically once you have a positive net worth this becomes a good idea and is generally quite cheap. It steps in to protect your assets so your 401k doesn’t get taken because of some freak incident not covered by the other 3.

 

[AcesandEights]

An umbrella policy requires you to max the other coverages. It's basically a coverage above and beyond the max of the other policies, or else I'm wrong.

 

[runningshoes]

I'm not a fan of using a personal umbrella policy for a semi-organized club activity. I'd suggest you start by minimizing the chance of getting sued by having every person going out on the trails sign a release form indicating they are aware of the risks, have the capability to operate their vehicle off-road, even self-select the level of trails they're comfortable driving, etc., etc. Have a lawyer write out the release or ask one of the organized Jeep groups for their version. In your situation, you should also make sure that anyone leading a ride is doing so as a volunteer and not in any official role. This won't stop anyone from suing you but at least you'll have a baseline of protection to start. The group should consider whether they need some sort of liability insurance that covers these and other risks as opposed to individuals doing so.

 

[Opus]

If you trust that your insurance agent isn't going to load you up with a bunch of extra coverage you don't need... I'd start with a conversation with them. Tell them what you told us and ask what you need to protect yourself.

 

[PeatedWhisky]

You generally can't be sued for your 401k or other employer sponsored retirement plans, the ERISA act protects that. I worked in investing/401k specifically for a number of years, unless the account iteslf is part of a fraud of some sort you are generally protected. Your primary home is also typically protected.

Umbrella insurance is generally affordable, but it typically requires you to have higher than the typical minimums on your auto insurance (after which the umbrella policy kicks in) which can add to the price significantly.

I know various leagues, clubs, and other non-profits have a general liability insurance which is going to be cheaper than a personal umbrella policy. You may want to look in that direction.

 

[Some Random Guy]

I'm not a fan of using a personal umbrella policy for a semi-organized club activity. I'd suggest you start by minimizing the chance of getting sued by having every person going out on the trails sign a release form indicating they are aware of the risks, have the capability to operate their vehicle off-road, even self-select the level of trails they're comfortable driving, etc., etc. Have a lawyer write out the release or ask one of the organized Jeep groups for their version. In your situation, you should also make sure that anyone leading a ride is doing so as a volunteer and not in any official role. This won't stop anyone from suing you but at least you'll have a baseline of protection to start. The group should consider whether they need some

My last club’s bookkeeper told us insurance was crazy expensive for a club. We were struggling to find venues for club meetings and I had several free venues but they required proof of general liability insurance.
Also, the umbrella isn’t for the Jeep event. It’s just a general asset protection for the gaps between other insurance types. If our bookkeeper was right, I’d assume most groups run naked. Void of insurance that is.

You generally can't be sued for your 401k or other qualified retirement plan, the ERISA act protects that. I worked in investing/401k specifically for a number of years, unless the account iteslf is part of a fraud of some sort you are generally protected. Your primary home is also typically protected.

Umbrella insurance is generally affordable, but it typically requires you to have higher than the typical minimums on your auto insurance (after which the umbrella policy kicks in) which can add to the price significantly.

I know various leagues, clubs, and other non-profits have a general liability insurance which is going to be cheaper than a personal umbrella policy. You may want to look in that direction.

Sorry, 401k was a bad example. I was just trying to think of assets people had.

 

[AlgUSF]

I can’t answer the Jeep specific part, but generally an umbrella policy is the next step after auto, health, and home are covered. Specifically once you have a positive net worth this becomes a good idea and is generally quite cheap. It steps in to protect your assets so your 401k doesn’t get taken because of some freak incident not covered by the other 3.

Or heaven forbid your Jeep get taken.

 

[azwjowner]

I'm not a fan of using a personal umbrella policy for a semi-organized club activity. I'd suggest you start by minimizing the chance of getting sued by having every person going out on the trails sign a release form indicating they are aware of the risks, have the capability to operate their vehicle off-road, even self-select the level of trails they're comfortable driving, etc., etc. Have a lawyer write out the release or ask one of the organized Jeep groups for their version. In your situation, you should also make sure that anyone leading a ride is doing so as a volunteer and not in any official role. This won't stop anyone from suing you but at least you'll have a baseline of protection to start. The group should consider whether they need some sort of liability insurance that covers these and other risks as opposed to individuals doing so.

A release is great and can dissuade a lawsuit but if there's serious injury, it may not stop a lawsuit as a plaintiff hopes for a quick settlement (though it may cause the plaintiff to lose, after an expensive battle), so insurance should be the first line of defense.

 

[Nokones]

Your Club should have, as suggested above, some type of D & O (Directors and Officers) General Liability Insurance Coverage. Hagarty, K & K, and Naughton are some that come to mind.

You need to be very careful in how the Club conduct their activities, and the Policy's terms and conditions must be strictly adhere to, I mean to a "T". Independent Clubs don't have the backing of a National Organization or Council that carry's a lot of clout with an insurance carrier. An insurance carrier will due their diligence in finding a legal reason to void any claim just so they don't pay the claim.

I've seen this happen to a few independent Corvette Club's in my lifetime. It is very important that the insurance waivers are signed by all, and if required, a thorough Tech Inspection conducted, etc.

 

[tomk62]

IANAL, but understand that this opens a whole can of worms when you get lawyers and insurance carriers involved. @Nokones comments imply this.

Who are the trail leaders and spotters? Are they qualified? What training do they have? Who qualified them and to what standard?

Who are the participants? Are their vehicles appropriate and safe? On what standard?

I am not saying the insurance is a bad idea, just know that it changes everything. You'll likely be required to adopt and enforce strict rules and policies. (which is not a bad idea to begin with)

 

[runningshoes]

A release is great and can dissuade a lawsuit but if there's serious injury, it may not stop a lawsuit as a plaintiff hopes for a quick settlement (though it may cause the plaintiff to lose, after an expensive battle), so insurance should be the first line of defense.

I think I was clear that having both is required, with a strong preference for not linking your personal assets to the club activity. Absent the ability to do so, my second option would be to disband any notion of a club and just have a group of friends that get together and ride the trails and help each other out.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I can’t answer the Jeep specific part, but generally an umbrella policy is the next step after auto, health, and home are covered. Specifically once you have a positive net worth this becomes a good idea and is generally quite cheap. It steps in to protect your assets so your 401k doesn’t get taken because of some freak incident not covered by the other 3.

Just specific to the reference to a 401k, they are federally protected from liability. The rest of you and yours is fair game. Sorry, redundant to the post earlier.

 

[MtCamper]

Just to clarify, we are a social club that goes Jeeping. All of you make good points but as a club, we don't require anyone to participate in trail runs nor do we require them to follow the leader. We meet in the morning and head out into the desert and drive around, some times very easy roads and sometimes much harder. My question is if I, as the guy in front, have any liability for what someone behind me chooses to do? And how do other groups deal with this issue. We have no spotting, towing or winching training. What is there liability there?

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