Intermittent brake failure

[Bubalooie]

I have a 2024 Jeep Wrangler JL Rubicon X. I purchased it with Wright at 23,000 miles about three months ago, in Janesville, Wisconsin at Boucher CJDR. When I test drove the vehicle, I noticed pulsating in the brakes, and told the dealer what I had experienced. They had somebody from their service department drive it and say that that was totally normal. I questioned whether the person was completely retarded or was just having a bad day or exactly what but that is not totally normal. They immediately had two other people take it for a drive and decided there was a problem so they bled the brakes and then said everything was good. I again. Much better no pulsating but the brake still felt a little spongy. I was trading in a 2018 JL Rubicon with 138,000 miles which I had purchased new and I had never had any of those types of problems with it, and the brakes always felt very solid being that the vehicle still had factory warranty. I went ahead and purchased a vehicle thinking if there was a problem, I would have it fixed under warranty. A few weeks later, I had an experience while sitting at a stoplight that suddenly the brake pedal went all the way to the floor and the brake light and the ABS light came on. then approximately a week later I had the same experience, and then approximately one week later, I had the same experience while pulling up to vehicles that were already stopped at the stoplight, but I was able to stop. I took it to a dealer in Sycamore, Illinois, which is where I am currently working, and they took the vehicle in and called me and said there was no codes coming up so there was no problem. They said that what was causing that to happen was the Hill assist and that everything was hunky-dory. That was a service advisor that told me that, so I didn’t know how to respond other than to tell him he was a complete retard, but I did not do that. I rather called back and asked for the service manager, and explain the situation to him. He assured me that I misunderstood what the service advisor had said, even though the service advisor told me to come pick up my vehicle that everything was as it should be. They kept the vehicle for two weeks and continued to make excuses as to why they couldn’t test anything, because there were no codes that Jeep wouldn’t pay for it yada yada yada. I finally told them that I needed them to document everything that they had done and I would take it to a different dealer. They then decided they had one more person to look at it, which was there master mechanic. He calls me the next day and says that the problem is is that. I am not understanding my vehicle that this is a feature and not a bug. He proceeds to tell me that this is the brake hold for when your rock crawling, and everything was fine, we could come pick up our vehicle. What a nightmare. Has any of you heard of or had any experiences such as this? With the brake system, not the dealerships. this is my first post, so I’m sure I will get flamed about all kinds of things but come on. I got thick skin.

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[Remorseless]

They sound like idiots. A brake hold like that is not a standard feature of the JL, and nothing that causes ABS light to come on by default is a standard feature.

Brake hold is a feature of the Tazer (if you don't know, it's an aftermarket programmer), but no idea if it causes an ABS light. @Wabujitsu, you use that feature right? Does it cause an ABS light?

 

[_olllllllo_]

I have no words for your experience with the dealers and their techs. Brakes are a fairly simple system and these dealers seem to struggle. I have seen the ABS light come on when the brake fluid in the reservoir is low. The only other cause is the ABS module is taking a crap, but that shouldn't result in loss of braking ability for the vehicle. Did they flush the system (I use a Motive power flush) by pushing new brake fluid through each line? That removes any air in any of the four lines and from the reservoir and replaces old fluid with new (no water in the fluid). I don't bleed anymore, I flush as it is easier for me and is a one man operation.

 

[Bubalooie]

They sound like idiots. A brake hold like that is not a standard feature of the JL, and nothing that causes ABS light to come on by default.

Brake hold is a feature of the Tazer (if you don't know, it's an aftermarket programmer), but no idea if it causes an ABS light. @Wabujitsu, you use that one right? Does it cause an ABS light?

I do have the taser mini, but it is activated by the steering wheel controls. But I have it unplugged or rather disconnected, unmarried. I did find another small town dealer, and had conversation with him about all the symptoms I was having with my vehicle and he told me that he had a police vehicle that had exactly the same symptoms and that they currently have a STAR Case going. Evidently the Police vehicle uses exactly the same breaking system that is in the Wrangler Rubicon, and a number of other vehicles. He said as soon as he has the problem solved, he will call me and do the repair on mine. I was just curious if anybody else has had this problem because I might be waiting for a while for him to get the problem resolved through jeep.

I have no words for your experience with the dealers and their techs. Brakes are a fairly simple system and these dealers seem to struggle. I have seen the ABS light come on when the brake fluid in the reservoir is low. The only other cause is the ABS module is taking a crap, but that shouldn't result in loss of braking ability for the vehicle. Did they flush the system (I use a Motive power flush) by pushing new brake fluid through each line? That removes any air in any of the four lines and from the reservoir and replaces old fluid with new (no water in the fluid). I don't bleed anymore, I flush as it is easier for me and is a one man operation.

The brake fluid has been changed one time and bled four times. That is if you believe the dealers the dealer that I am currently talking to is in a small town and he sounds like he knows what he is talking about. Jeep has authorized him to change the master cylinder, with no change in behavior, and the ABS pump with no change in symptoms.

 

[basemodel]

Do dealership service departments really think we’re stupid? Your Jeep is a safety hazard, and I wouldn’t be driving it. I’d find a better dealership or a good independent shop that can do the warranty work.

 

[alphawolff]

If the ABS light is indeed coming on there are codes. There's also nothing on the standard JL that would cause the brake pedal to go to the floor other than a fluid leak which should be readily reproducible. Do you have any aftermarket accessories wired into the communication network or plugged into the DLC port? A tazer mini for example can cause the brake & ABS light to illuminate simultaneously with no codes. It's why we recommend not leaving them unplugged when not needed.

Pulsating brake pedal is just warped rotors - it's nothing serious or rare. It also wouldn't cause your other symptoms. Now here's my theory: they bled the brake system(?) for a pulsation concern and now there's air in the system. The air however should be easily noticed during a test drive.

I don't doubt this story, but things aren't lining up. If you're raising this big of a ruckus the dealer should have test driven the vehicle extensively. If it occurred during this test driving they would have stated so.

Do dealership service departments really think we’re stupid? Your Jeep is a safety hazard, and I wouldn’t be driving it. I’d find a better dealership or a good independent shop that can do the warranty work.

Assuming this story is true the dealership needs to be able to reproduce the concern or at least have codes to work with. We can't just wave a magic wand and fix something we can't see.

 

[Bubalooie]

If the ABS light is indeed coming on there are codes. There's also nothing on the standard JL that would cause the brake pedal to go to the floor other than a fluid leak which should be readily reproducible. Do you have any aftermarket accessories wired into the communication network or plugged into the DLC port? A tazer mini for example can cause the brake & ABS light to illuminate simultaneously with no codes. It's why we recommend not leaving them unplugged when not needed.

Pulsating brake pedal is just warped rotors - it's nothing serious or rare. It also wouldn't cause your other symptoms. Now here's my theory: they bled the brake system(?) for a pulsation concern and now there's air in the system. The air however should be easily noticed during a test drive.

I don't doubt this story, but things aren't lining up. If you're raising this big of a ruckus the dealer should have test driven the vehicle extensively. If it occurred during this test driving they would have stated so.




Assuming this story is true the dealership needs to be able to reproduce the concern or at least have codes to work with. We can't just wave a magic wand and fix something we can't see.

here are the receipts for all you doubters. As far as having to replicate three times, it sounds to me like maybe you work for a Chrysler or Jeep it sure doesn’t say that in the warning to have it repaired immediately.

 

[alphawolff]

The JL does not have a brake hold mode. Brake hold is a feature of the tazer, which illuminates both those lights during activation.


That would be why the new dealership cannot reproduce it. You said you removed it prior to taking it in.

 

[Willeeee]

Did you try connecting the Tazer mini back to see what happens? It seems really odd that the dash ABS light and brake trouble lights would come on it there would be no codes.

Kunes in one form or another, has been around for a while but I don’t know their reputation. I haven’t lived in that area for quite some time. When I did, I used Lou’s in Geneva for my CJ and GCL when out of warranty. They are top notch. I don’t know if they do warranty work though.

 

[Bubalooie]

Did you try connecting the Tazer mini back to see what happens? It seems really odd that the dash ABS light and brake trouble lights would come on it there would be no codes.

Kunes in one form or another, has been around for a while but I don’t know their reputation. I haven’t lived in that area for quite some time. When I did, I used Lou’s in Geneva for my CJ and GCL when out of warranty. They are top notch. I don’t know if they do warranty work though.

Did you try connecting the Tazer mini back to see what happens? It seems really odd that the dash ABS light and brake trouble lights would come on it there would be no codes.

Kunes in one form or another, has been around for a while but I don’t know their reputation. I haven’t lived in that area for quite some time. When I did, I used Lou’s in Geneva for my CJ and GCL when out of warranty. They are top notch. I don’t know if they do warranty work though.

I did try it with the taser installed and unmarried and uninstalled, and it made no difference whatsoever.

 

[Remorseless]

I did try it with the taser installed and unmarried and uninstalled, and it made no difference whatsoever.

With it married, what if you enabled, used, and then disabled the brake hold feature?

 

[JeepinPete]

Many years ago I had a 1st gen Durango that did a similar thing. First time was no big deal, second time I sailed through a busy intersection. There wasn't a third time, I pulled the ABS fuse. Brakes worked fine after that (no ABS obviously). Not a fun feeling, I hope you find a resolution.

 

[Bubalooie]

With it married, what if you enabled, used, and then disabled the brake hold feature?

I was actually unable to activate that feature, although I did not try very hard. According to a dealer in a small town, not far away in whom I have much more confidence, he is dealing with a police car that has exactly the same symptoms as mine. Thus far the STAR engineers have instructed him to change the master cylinder, and the ABS pump. He said neither one made any difference whatsoever. They are waiting for the next instruction.

 

[Willeeee]

@JeepinPete,

Holy Beans! That had to be absolutely terrifying.

 

[Remorseless]

I was actually unable to activate that feature, although I did not try very hard. According to a dealer in a small town, not far away in whom I have much more confidence, he is dealing with a police car that has exactly the same symptoms as mine. Thus far the STAR engineers have instructed him to change the master cylinder, and the ABS pump. He said neither one made any difference whatsoever. They are waiting for the next instruction.

Yeah I saw that, just if you've got time to kill, it might be worthwhile testing to see if you might actually not be having the exact same issue. Won't cost anything but time to play around with the tazer and that setting.

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