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Gasoline Direct injection -- valve deposits

Heimkehr

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I recently had a good conversation, covering a variety of automotive-related subjects, with a retired mechanic who seemed to be pretty squared away.

Wanting to use him as a sounding board on the issue, I mentioned my long-term concerns regarding GDI-derived carbon build-up and, e.g., walnut-blasting services. He (Steve) suggested adding a bottle of Sea Foam to the fuel tank. He said that the deposits accumulate primarily on the exhaust valves, and that the effect of Sea Foam circulating through the EGR valve will serve to reduce or eliminate the deposits, depending on their degree of accumulation.

I'm not seeking disagreement here so much as asking for additional context from owners with more knowledge and experience [with GDI deposit issues] than I. How accurate, or not, is Steve's suggestion here?

------------------

I've used Sea Foam to successfully resurrect two separate carbureted, air-cooled engines: one on a middleweight Suzuki, and the 3.5 hp. Briggs on my pressure washer. I like the product, I've used the product, but I'm wondering if its effectiveness is as broadband as Steve suggests. Thanks.


Jeep Wrangler JL Gasoline Direct injection -- valve deposits 1668872264159
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Ang1Sgt

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Iā€™m not a user of the Seafoam so no real experience. I like using a product like Lucas Fuel Injection Cleaner. The reason Iā€™ve used this for a number of years is due to the cleaning and LUBRICATION of the fuel system. I use it at least once a month in all my vehicles.

Even in my lawn tractor, power washer, and electric Generator, I use only No-ETHANOL fuel in these along with a full dose of STA-BIL and a like amount of the Lucas. Some of my stuff will sit for months and I have few issues when I go to do a first start in spring.

Just another productā€¦ā€¦
 

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I recently had a good conversation, covering a variety of automotive-related subjects, with a retired mechanic who seemed to be pretty squared away.

Wanting to use him as a sounding board on the issue, I mentioned my long-term concerns regarding GDI-derived carbon build-up and, e.g., walnut-blasting services. He (Steve) suggested adding a bottle of Sea Foam to the fuel tank. He said that the deposits accumulate primarily on the exhaust valves, and that the effect of Sea Foam circulating through the EGR valve will serve to reduce or eliminate the deposits, depending on their degree of accumulation.

I'm not seeking disagreement here so much as asking for additional context from owners with more knowledge and experience [with GDI deposit issues] than I. How accurate, or not, is Steve's suggestion here?

------------------

I've used Sea Foam to successfully resurrect two separate carbureted, air-cooled engines: one on a middleweight Suzuki, and the 3.5 hp. Briggs on my pressure washer. I like the product, I've used the product, but I'm wondering if its effectiveness is as broadband as Steve suggests. Thanks.


1668872264159.png
To put it nicely, I donā€™t think he knows what heā€™s talking about. Or he misunderstood. The problem with carbon building on DI was always the intake valves since the fuel is no longer spraying on them. This is well documented and there are 1000ā€™s of examples.

Sea foam in the gas does nothing for this.

Some DI motors handle the buildup much better than others. My L86 truck did a great job and most would not have an issue for the life of the truck.

The only real maintenance you can do is spray a can of sea foam in the intake right before your oil change.

Frequent ā€œitalian tune upsā€ works pretty well too
 

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I recently had a good conversation, covering a variety of automotive-related subjects, with a retired mechanic who seemed to be pretty squared away.

Wanting to use him as a sounding board on the issue, I mentioned my long-term concerns regarding GDI-derived carbon build-up and, e.g., walnut-blasting services. He (Steve) suggested adding a bottle of Sea Foam to the fuel tank. He said that the deposits accumulate primarily on the exhaust valves, and that the effect of Sea Foam circulating through the EGR valve will serve to reduce or eliminate the deposits, depending on their degree of accumulation.

I'm not seeking disagreement here so much as asking for additional context from owners with more knowledge and experience [with GDI deposit issues] than I. How accurate, or not, is Steve's suggestion here?

------------------

I've used Sea Foam to successfully resurrect two separate carbureted, air-cooled engines: one on a middleweight Suzuki, and the 3.5 hp. Briggs on my pressure washer. I like the product, I've used the product, but I'm wondering if its effectiveness is as broadband as Steve suggests. Thanks.


Jeep Wrangler JL Gasoline Direct injection -- valve deposits 1668872264159
12 oz can of H2O, 2 cans if HEAVY carbon build up. AKA valve job in a can.

HOW? Engine at full operating temperature. Pour slowly thru intake while revving engine.

NOTE: Disconnect the cat converter.
 

Kleiss1

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What about a Catch Can like is used on other direct injection engines? Had one on my Silverado that worked great.
 

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Heimkehr

Heimkehr

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To put it nicely, I donā€™t think he knows what heā€™s talking about. Or he misunderstood. The problem with carbon building on DI was always the intake valves since the fuel is no longer spraying on them.

Frequent ā€œitalian tune upsā€ works pretty well too
I hinted at that very reality, but No Joy, so I just listened politely. And I do know what "Italian tune-up" means. ;)


12 oz can of H2O, 2 cans if HEAVY carbon build up. AKA valve job in a can.

HOW? Engine at full operating temperature. Pour slowly thru intake while revving engine.
Yep. I've seen that done, arguably to good effect, but only on an older Ford Ranger.


What about a Catch Can like is used on other direct injection engines?
That's on my list, but I've not yet made a purchase decision.
 

Tncdrew

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The problem with carbon building on DI was always the intake valves since the fuel is no longer spraying on them. This is well documented and there are 1000ā€™s of examples.

Sea foam in the gas does nothing for this.
I'd have to agree with this, as (my guess) any fuel additive will never see that back of the intake valves in a gas direct injection engine.
 

OBD

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I don't own a DI engine but have run external breathers on every Harley I have ever owned.After doing several big bore kits on both stock and external breather system bikes,I can say the external vented bike's internals are cleaner. I just put a catch can on my 2021 3.6, and I am monitoring what comes out of the can. The Jeep is short tripped to death as is the bike year round , so yes I keep Seafoam in both tanks.
 

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What about a Catch Can like is used on other direct injection engines? Had one on my Silverado that worked great.
Installed catch can @ 14 miles, now have over 7000 miles. Changed the oil twice - (when it turns black @ about 3k worth of driving). Checked catch can - not a drop of oil or even oily residue was found. Others have said; it is a waste of money. However even though there seems to be no oil to catch, I donā€™t think it was a waste, because now I know first hand and peace of mind is worth something.
 

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He said that the deposits accumulate primarily on the exhaust valves,
As mentioned by others, the effects of valve deposit is mainly on the intake valves because thats where the dirty PCV vapors re-enter the engine.

effect of Sea Foam circulating through the EGR valve
Sea foam will not enter your EGR valve, sea foam is a petroleum-based product so most of it will burn up in the combustion chamber if added to the fuel. There will be little active ingredients left once it makes it way to the EGR cooler and back into the intake.

Checked catch can - not a drop of oil or even oily residue was found. Others have said; it is a waste of money.
This is consistent with what I have seen as well from these engines. Do note that if you are using the mishimoto can, you are only trapping the vapor from the CCV side of the engine which is only active under boost. On regular cruising without boost, your CCV side does not flow and all crank-case vapors are re-circulated via the PCV side of your engine. Unless you drive it like a hot rod, i don't see much benefit of a CCV only can.

If you look at some of the schematic diagrams for the GME engine, you'll see that the engine itself already has a pretty robustly designed oil separator built into the engine.

See below for the baffles which makes up the oil separator on our engines. The labyrinth design of the oil separator cause the oil to condense and drop back into the crank-case. This is essentially like a giant oil catch can.

Jeep Wrangler JL Gasoline Direct injection -- valve deposits Screen Shot 2022-12-05 at 1.46.43 PM


On the Giulia forums, Alfa techs have torn apart these engines at 80k+ and found no carbon buildups on the valves. The alfa version of this engine has a different valve-train but share the same oil separator design.

Our 2.0s run pretty clean.
 
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Old Jeeper

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I'd have to agree with this, as (my guess) any fuel additive will never see that back of the intake valves in a gas direct injection engine.
WHY? Use water? How does it work?

Thermodynamics!

Water is at ambient temperature. injecting cold water into the engine chambers which are around 2500Ā° or more cold water hits the vAlbee and the inside of the combustion chamber it causes the carbon buildup which does not expand or contract as rapidly as does the steel and aluminum internals. Thus the reason why you want to unhook your cat converter from the Foward exhaust pipe is so as when the flakes and chunks of carbon come blowing out they donā€™t enter into the cat.

Iā€™ve been doing this on Ford tractors for 27 Corvettes 327 Corvettes jeeps and everything else it has a combustion chamber and I learned from my dad it was learned from his dad going back to the 1920s this is how itā€™s done how you clean that carbon due to Thermodynamics.
 

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WHY? Use water? How does it work?

Thermodynamics!

Water is at ambient temperature. injecting cold water into the engine chambers which are around 2500Ā° or more cold water hits the vAlbee and the inside of the combustion chamber it causes the carbon buildup which does not expand or contract as rapidly as does the steel and aluminum internals. Thus the reason why you want to unhook your cat converter from the Foward exhaust pipe is so as when the flakes and chunks of carbon come blowing out they donā€™t enter into the cat.

Iā€™ve been doing this on Ford tractors for 27 Corvettes 327 Corvettes jeeps and everything else it has a combustion chamber and I learned from my dad it was learned from his dad going back to the 1920s this is how itā€™s done how you clean that carbon due to Thermodynamics.
I get what you're saying šŸ‘, but I was talking about fuel additives....
 

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I get what you're saying šŸ‘, but I was talking about fuel additives....
LOL I agreed with you 100% in your comment, you said it all, no need to polish the brass twiceā€¦
 

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Anyone with a high mileage 2.0 put a borescope in thru a spark or intake port

dont seem to hear issue with misfire and thought I read those with catch cans dont collect much oil


maybe these wont be prone to this problem and they designed a good pcv stem
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