Crashed JLUR needs new frame (backordered until at least March)

DonBindas

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
212
Reaction score
144
Location
Naples, Florida
Vehicle(s)
Ordered a 2020 JL Rubicon Unlimited in Bikini with Dark Saddle Leather on 7-8-19 and was delivered by Criswell 8-22-19
Occupation
KBB Analyst
I think we need to clarify diminished value. I have a lot of experience with this, as that’s essentially my wife’s job. That term relates to how much you lost by comparison to a non wrecked vehicle. It’s not a set figure, and certainly is never near 20-30%. Insurance is to make you whole, not pay you in advance. If you keep your vehicle- in theory- you don’t have any diminished value. The conversation is only to address the hypothetical situation where you sell it and at what point in time (your diminished value is much less if figured over time).

The best answer is to have the conversation and do some calculations based on comparable you find in the area. My wife says that dealerships are actually a source of information, but ultimately it’s based on several items, including state caps and policy limits. Some areas don’t even allow it.

Summation- you should get something, but you likely won’t see more than 10-15%. She also says you might be surprised to find out they total it once they dig deeper. Most frame repair situations lead to that, including those that started without being totaled.
Opinions are the medium between knowledge and ignorance
according to Plato.

As a car dealer with 30 years experience and who is now calculating this kind of stuff professionally, here are the facts:

Unless this repaired wreck of a Jeep is sold to an unaware and/or ignorant dealer or consumer, the 20% loss in value is fact.

Repaired frame damage is somewhere around 15%.

These facts don't prevent a dealer or a consumer from looking past the reported accident history, if one of them really needs to make a deal, so it comes down to, who needs to buy or sell that Jeep more?

The Jeep is a personal asset, so whether it is sold or not, that asset has lost a lot of value.

Talk is cheap, so why not go to a few consumer web sites and put the Jeep's information in twice, as with and without a report accident and frame damage.

Everything else is only an opinion....





Advertisement

 

viper88

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
3,233
Reaction score
2,976
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLR 2.0T
-Diminished Value-
This is a HUGE issue!

I've heard dealers say that a "Reported" accident is something like an automatic 20% loss in resale value?

Repaired frame damage could add another 15% on top of the 20%?

May I suggest that you go to one of those Internet sites and get a trade in value twice?

Once, with a reported accident with frame damage report and one time clean.

Pretty amazing difference in value!

I would consider hiring a lawyer to inform the insurance company that you intend to sue them and that might turn the tables in your favor

Bottom line, if you should ever trade that Jeep, those may be the diminished value dollars coming out of your pocket.

Better yet, let it be out of the insurance company's pocket.
I think Carfax and some other valuation sites list comps for accident free and accident repaired cars.
 

Indio

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
401
Reaction score
376
Location
Chicagoland
Vehicle(s)
1998 Jeep TJ, 1985 Jeep CJ-7, 1972 Series III Land Rover
Occupation
Procrastinator
Looking for advice/needing to vent. Long story short: on 12/10/19 a kid cut me off and I T-boned him on his front wheel. He was found 100% liable. Collision center estimates repairs will cost at least $11k and needs a new frame. But JLU frame is backordered with earliest shipping date to be 2/28. Add minimum of 20 working days to repair (per collision center) and I won’t be in the Jeep until April at the earliest. I was hoping that the insurance company would just total it at this point due to the excessive repair time, rental car cost, etc. but they have deemed it repairable. I think it’s somewhat ridiculous to have to wait So long get back behind the wheel of my jeep. I live in Texas, so I can claim diminished value loss. Does anyone have any experience with diminished loss value claims and whether or not I should play that card with my insurance company to force the issue?
That bites. Major damage like that, I would hope they just total it. I never really thought about it until recently, looking for a used car and rejecting those showing rebuilt title of former accidents. It will reduce persons who might consider you car
Opinions are the medium between knowledge and ignorance
according to Plato.

As a car dealer with 30 years experience and who is now calculating this kind of stuff professionally, here are the facts:

Unless this repaired wreck of a Jeep is sold to an unaware and/or ignorant dealer or consumer, the 20% loss in value is fact.

Repaired frame damage is somewhere around 15%.

These facts don't prevent a dealer or a consumer from looking past the reported accident history, if one of them really needs to make a deal, so it comes down to, who needs to buy or sell that Jeep more?

The Jeep is a personal asset, so whether it is sold or not, that asset has lost a lot of value.

Talk is cheap, so why not go to a few consumer web sites and put the Jeep's information in twice, as with and without a report accident and frame damage.

Everything else is only an opinion....
I'm no expert - but would agree. For a few months I've been browsing used Suburu BRZ sporty cars. Turns out quite a few of these BRZs get into accidents and some are even rebuilt. Apparently the people driving them are young, on the wild side or not good drivers. Amazing how many are for sale with "rebuilt" in the title. In fact, anytime I see what looks like a real good price, inevitably some digging shows "rebuilt" in the title.

Anyway, they tend to be around 20% lower in asking price, compared to clean and uncrashed versions. And they tend to remain for sale longer. An unaware buyer would think they got a good deal, and sure maybe the car ends up working fine. But personally I take a pass once I see accident in the report, and for sure will not get a rebuilt version.

So I would be ticked off having major damage, and not getting compensated for the loss when selling later on.
 

viper88

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
3,233
Reaction score
2,976
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLR 2.0T
That bites. Major damage like that, I would hope they just total it. I never really thought about it until recently, looking for a used car and rejecting those showing rebuilt title of former accidents. It will reduce persons who might consider you car


I'm no expert - but would agree. For a few months I've been browsing used Suburu BRZ sporty cars. Turns out quite a few of these BRZs get into accidents and some are even rebuilt. Apparently the people driving them are young, on the wild side or not good drivers. Amazing how many are for sale with "rebuilt" in the title. In fact, anytime I see what looks like a real good price, inevitably some digging shows "rebuilt" in the title.

Anyway, they tend to be around 20% lower in asking price, compared to clean and uncrashed versions. And they tend to remain for sale longer. An unaware buyer would think they got a good deal, and sure maybe the car ends up working fine. But personally I take a pass once I see accident in the report, and for sure will not get a rebuilt version.

So I would be ticked off having major damage, and not getting compensated for the loss when selling later on.
Sending you a PM about a BRZ for sale.
 
Last edited:

DonBindas

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
212
Reaction score
144
Location
Naples, Florida
Vehicle(s)
Ordered a 2020 JL Rubicon Unlimited in Bikini with Dark Saddle Leather on 7-8-19 and was delivered by Criswell 8-22-19
Occupation
KBB Analyst
I think Carfax and some other valuation sites list comps for accident free and accident repaired cars.
Having a "Bad Car-Fax" is like having a criminal record

And with frame damage, then it would be like having a felony criminal record
 

Chemy350

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
300
Reaction score
376
Location
Atlanta GA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR
Occupation
Porsche Sales
Sorry to hear.
Here in GA, I refer clients to a friend of mine who fights the insurance companies on the clients behalf and always gets thousands more than their original offer.. An example is an insurance company offering you $1500 for diminished value, usually in the form of a mailed check. That number will ALWAYS be very low in hopes you cash it. Search your area for a broker or company that fights insurance agencies for diminished value, I'm sure you have some near you.
 
OP
Freeballs

Freeballs

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
30
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicle(s)
JLUR
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #23
Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions. I’ve had a few discussions with my insurance company (USAA). I filed it through them although Progressive will be reimbursing them since their client was 100% at fault.

So far here is what I’ve learned from my multiple conversations with USAA:
The only consideration when deciding whether or not to total a vehicle is the repair costs. The grand total of their payout isn’t considered in the calculations. This means that the rental car cost (usaa’s cost is $50 per day) isn’t factored in. Neither is Diminished Value, which I need to file for directly with Progressive. With some poking around, submitting stuff in autotrader, calling a friend in the car business, the DV is estimated to be about $12k. Of course, I’m sure Progressive will counter much lower. All of these numbers are not used by the insurance companies as a total. They are all separate. Therefore, even if it costs them more in the end, they don’t appear to be willing to settle. And that doesn’t even include the possibility of a medical, which I’m within my right to do due to some lingering shoulder issues I’m having.

I asked at what point my level of customer service is calculated in, especially being stuck in a rental car for at least 5 months. They stated that they don’t have any hard set rules in terms of time frame/duration of delayed repairs, but 6 months would probably be a point where they might consider totaling it. Which is crazy, because any delay would put me over 6 months. And I would guess that a delay is likely, first with having frame released from Chrysler, and second with any unforeseen delays with repairs, new issues that come up, etc. I pointed this out to them, but they said it’s too early in the process to consider that. As an aside, the collision shop manager stated their average repair is 12 days.

As for the collision repair place (Caliber Collision), they are associated with USAA. I’ve come to realize (duh) that totaling my Jeep isn’t in their best interest as a business. I assume they “discover” more damage once repairs begin, but probably not enough to total it, especially at that point (once the frame arrive in March). Im contemplating having my Jeep towed to a different collision center to get a second opinion.

Finally, I haven’t reached out to progressive directly yet. I’m thinking that that might be a good option, hopefully to show them that from a total cost standpoint, totaling the Jeep now versus waiting 5 months for repairs, may be more cost effective for them, or at least a break even point and they don’t have to deal with me being a pain in the ass for the next 5 months.
 
OP
Freeballs

Freeballs

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
30
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicle(s)
JLUR
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #24
Opinions are the medium between knowledge and ignorance
according to Plato.

As a car dealer with 30 years experience and who is now calculating this kind of stuff professionally, here are the facts:

Unless this repaired wreck of a Jeep is sold to an unaware and/or ignorant dealer or consumer, the 20% loss in value is fact.

Repaired frame damage is somewhere around 15%.

These facts don't prevent a dealer or a consumer from looking past the reported accident history, if one of them really needs to make a deal, so it comes down to, who needs to buy or sell that Jeep more?

The Jeep is a personal asset, so whether it is sold or not, that asset has lost a lot of value.

Talk is cheap, so why not go to a few consumer web sites and put the Jeep's information in twice, as with and without a report accident and frame damage.

Everything else is only an opinion....
Opinions are the medium between knowledge and ignorance
according to Plato.

As a car dealer with 30 years experience and who is now calculating this kind of stuff professionally, here are the facts:

Unless this repaired wreck of a Jeep is sold to an unaware and/or ignorant dealer or consumer, the 20% loss in value is fact.

Repaired frame damage is somewhere around 15%.

These facts don't prevent a dealer or a consumer from looking past the reported accident history, if one of them really needs to make a deal, so it comes down to, who needs to buy or sell that Jeep more?

The Jeep is a personal asset, so whether it is sold or not, that asset has lost a lot of value.

Talk is cheap, so why not go to a few consumer web sites and put the Jeep's information in twice, as with and without a report accident and frame damage.

Everything else is only an opinion....
I greatly appreciate your advice thus far. Just to clarify: you stated that the ding on the repair loss value is 20% but the frame damage is 15%. Does that mean 15% in addition to the 20%?
 
OP
Freeballs

Freeballs

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
30
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicle(s)
JLUR
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
The labor to separate the body, pull the drive train and axles, re- install everything plus fix the body damage would be horrendous. Are you sure they are not changing a section of the frame rail?

If it’s fixed, you are entitled to diminished value. There are independent certified insurance adjusters available for hire to establish a true diminished value claim. I’d also get the same independent appraiser to see if he can get the vehicle totaled.
The need to replace the entire frame since it has what is called diamond frame damage, basically the entire left side of the frame was pushed back, causing the normally square frame to resemble a diamond shape. The labor for just replacing the frame is slated at 20 working days, per the shop.
 

GreyFox

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brandy
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
3,054
Reaction score
5,957
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
17 JKU, 19 JL
Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions. I’ve had a few discussions with my insurance company (USAA). I filed it through them although Progressive will be reimbursing them since their client was 100% at fault.

So far here is what I’ve learned from my multiple conversations with USAA:
The only consideration when deciding whether or not to total a vehicle is the repair costs. The grand total of their payout isn’t considered in the calculations. This means that the rental car cost (usaa’s cost is $50 per day) isn’t factored in. Neither is Diminished Value, which I need to file for directly with Progressive. With some poking around, submitting stuff in autotrader, calling a friend in the car business, the DV is estimated to be about $12k. Of course, I’m sure Progressive will counter much lower. All of these numbers are not used by the insurance companies as a total. They are all separate. Therefore, even if it costs them more in the end, they don’t appear to be willing to settle. And that doesn’t even include the possibility of a medical, which I’m within my right to do due to some lingering shoulder issues I’m having.

I asked at what point my level of customer service is calculated in, especially being stuck in a rental car for at least 5 months. They stated that they don’t have any hard set rules in terms of time frame/duration of delayed repairs, but 6 months would probably be a point where they might consider totaling it. Which is crazy, because any delay would put me over 6 months. And I would guess that a delay is likely, first with having frame released from Chrysler, and second with any unforeseen delays with repairs, new issues that come up, etc. I pointed this out to them, but they said it’s too early in the process to consider that. As an aside, the collision shop manager stated their average repair is 12 days.

As for the collision repair place (Caliber Collision), they are associated with USAA. I’ve come to realize (duh) that totaling my Jeep isn’t in their best interest as a business. I assume they “discover” more damage once repairs begin, but probably not enough to total it, especially at that point (once the frame arrive in March). Im contemplating having my Jeep towed to a different collision center to get a second opinion.

Finally, I haven’t reached out to progressive directly yet. I’m thinking that that might be a good option, hopefully to show them that from a total cost standpoint, totaling the Jeep now versus waiting 5 months for repairs, may be more cost effective for them, or at least a break even point and they don’t have to deal with me being a pain in the ass for the next 5 months.
If the frame arrives in March, where are you getting this 5 months?
 

viper88

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nick
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
3,233
Reaction score
2,976
Location
IL
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLR 2.0T
Another question is warranty. What are the chances FCA denies warranty for something in the future after the repair? There is the possibility of FCA blaming the accident or repair shop.
 

DonBindas

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
212
Reaction score
144
Location
Naples, Florida
Vehicle(s)
Ordered a 2020 JL Rubicon Unlimited in Bikini with Dark Saddle Leather on 7-8-19 and was delivered by Criswell 8-22-19
Occupation
KBB Analyst
Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions. I’ve had a few discussions with my insurance company (USAA). I filed it through them although Progressive will be reimbursing them since their client was 100% at fault.

So far here is what I’ve learned from my multiple conversations with USAA:
The only consideration when deciding whether or not to total a vehicle is the repair costs. The grand total of their payout isn’t considered in the calculations. This means that the rental car cost (usaa’s cost is $50 per day) isn’t factored in. Neither is Diminished Value, which I need to file for directly with Progressive. With some poking around, submitting stuff in autotrader, calling a friend in the car business, the DV is estimated to be about $12k. Of course, I’m sure Progressive will counter much lower. All of these numbers are not used by the insurance companies as a total. They are all separate. Therefore, even if it costs them more in the end, they don’t appear to be willing to settle. And that doesn’t even include the possibility of a medical, which I’m within my right to do due to some lingering shoulder issues I’m having.

I asked at what point my level of customer service is calculated in, especially being stuck in a rental car for at least 5 months. They stated that they don’t have any hard set rules in terms of time frame/duration of delayed repairs, but 6 months would probably be a point where they might consider totaling it. Which is crazy, because any delay would put me over 6 months. And I would guess that a delay is likely, first with having frame released from Chrysler, and second with any unforeseen delays with repairs, new issues that come up, etc. I pointed this out to them, but they said it’s too early in the process to consider that. As an aside, the collision shop manager stated their average repair is 12 days.

As for the collision repair place (Caliber Collision), they are associated with USAA. I’ve come to realize (duh) that totaling my Jeep isn’t in their best interest as a business. I assume they “discover” more damage once repairs begin, but probably not enough to total it, especially at that point (once the frame arrive in March). Im contemplating having my Jeep towed to a different collision center to get a second opinion.

Finally, I haven’t reached out to progressive directly yet. I’m thinking that that might be a good option, hopefully to show them that from a total cost standpoint, totaling the Jeep now versus waiting 5 months for repairs, may be more cost effective for them, or at least a break even point and they don’t have to deal with me being a pain in the ass for the next 5 months.
Nicely written and very logical.

Consider paying a lawyer to speak for you, as a rule of thumb, it is not a good idea for you to deal with the insurance company directly, as you may "box" yourself in on an unexpected issue?

It's my recollection that vehicle frames have their own 17 digit VIN (vehicle identification number), so will your frame have the original VIN or a "Rebuilt" frame number?

While you wait on the new frame, it seems like a great time to begin your law suit while you have more financial leverage on the outcome?

From my personal experience, insurance companies have been known to calculate litigation expenses into their overall financial decision's outcome.
 

DonBindas

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
212
Reaction score
144
Location
Naples, Florida
Vehicle(s)
Ordered a 2020 JL Rubicon Unlimited in Bikini with Dark Saddle Leather on 7-8-19 and was delivered by Criswell 8-22-19
Occupation
KBB Analyst
I greatly appreciate your advice thus far. Just to clarify: you stated that the ding on the repair loss value is 20% but the frame damage is 15%. Does that mean 15% in addition to the 20%?
Yes, somewhere around that number as some dealers will care about the frame issue more than others.

The key issue here is, that new car dealers are known to pay more for a used vehicle for their inventory than a used car dealer, since a retail customer generally trusts a new car dealer more and the new car dealer can sell a used vehicle for a higher price than a used car dealer.

Being in a trust worthy retail position, a higher paying new car dealer wouldn't touch the frame damaged Jeep with a 10 foot pole!

With that being said, your frame repaired Jeep just lost the highest paying customer base by a significant margin.
 
Last edited:

Advertisement




Dwayne Lane's Chrysler Jeep Dodge
 



Advertisement
Top