College isn't worth it

[viper88]

A jr collage or something like that is a great stepping stone or a way to test the waters to see if higher education is for someone. It is also a very economical way for a education. I know someone who immigrated here 7 years ago. She barely spoke english and did not have much money. She attended ESL classes and enrolled at a community collage while working full time. She got into a 2-year Dental Hygiene program. She's making $70K a year now. Not bad for a 2-year program.

Smart and driven students will usually be successful no matter what school they attend. There are advantages to some universities. I think there is value in some premium universities and collages. Some elite universities are more than the education. Most people who attend expensive elite universities are getting much more than a education. They are meeting and have access other alumni and professors. These connections can be priceless.

Educations from elite universities can often be worth more in the work place after graduation. I have 2 close friends. Both attended the same grade school and high school. Both were straight A honor students who have never gotten less than A's since first grade. One attended U of I and the other Harvard. Both majored in political science. Both got jobs at a Big 5 accounting firm as consultants. They both attended the "farm" together and worked the same job initially. The difference was their salary. The guy who went to Harvard had a starting salary that was 25% higher than the U of I guy for the exact same position.

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[Covered in Dust]

I see pluses in both paths. My friend started a job at General Dynamics right out of High School. He could have just had a good paying job for life but instead he took college classes at night and earn a bachelor’s degree. Moved up a little then kept taking classes all while working full time. In the end he ended up with a masters degree and was a VP at Qualcomm making big bucks with lots of stock options. Retired in his early fifties and now just enjoys life.
I just screwed around all through my 20’s in dead end jobs but then when a company I was working for shut down I contacted some of the customers and started a business. Fast forward 25years and I had hundreds of employees and sold my business to a private equity group out of Chicago and retired in my early 50’s.

Different paths for different people it’s all about enjoying what you’re doing.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Of course you go with the Govt source for the chart.

Difference though is, save up and own a business, don't wind up in debt, and if you TRULY need collage (Spelt thusly because it's a joke), go to a cheap community college since a degree's a degree, save thousands and don't get balls deep into debt for an outdated piece of paper

https://alawyerandhermoney.com/college-actually-not-worth-the-cost/
https://admissionsly.com/why-college-isnt-worth-it/
https://owlcation.com/academia/Top-6-Reasons-College-Is-Overrated

Again, there are those destined for jobs that require it, but if you're not gonna be a liar, a Scientitute, a Doc or Murse, glorified public servant (pol... do they really require degrees though?)... I'm suddenly doubting every one of those jobs needs a degree though, sure there's ways around it

"The Disadvantage of Going to College in Two Words – Student Loans
Mindless college cheerleading can set people back in their finances in a way that even stupid decisions like buying a sportscar cannot. As John Mulaney jokes, a duffel bag filled with fake cocaine is better than a college degree because at least you get a duffel bag. You can sell that duffel bag for money, whereas no one is going to buy your college degree.
If you are wealthy, you assume you go to college. Whether or not you attend likely won’t have major implications in your life.
If you are not wealthy, you must weigh heavily your decision to go to college. You don’t have a pile of money to fall back on. You are the most likely to be ruined if they make the wrong choice."

Again, better to get financial literacy and figure out how to properly invest than go to collage

As a good friend (RIP) said once: "we can't all be doctors and lawyers". I believe that. Somebody has to be the plumber, the roofer, the gardener, the store clerk, and yes the small business owner. But a small business startup has a high rate of failure and isn't any guarantee either. To me, successful people, regardless of occupation, have a survival instinct that drives them. You can see it, and you can see those that don't have that instinct. Those with it, tend to make their success happen, in spite of difficulties. Achievers are set on a path long before college age, IMO. It's the person, not the path. But I would never discourage anyone from seeking more education.

 

[ASMSAS]

My sister works in medical billing. She made some bad choices in highschool, dropped out, finished her GED in her 20s and has her life on track. She worked before in Logistics for 3 years and left when she reached the top of the chain you could climb without a bachelors degree. Now after 3 years in medical billing she’s again maxed out possible promotions without a bachelors degree. She can do her boss’ job with 2 fingers in her nose but without that piece of paper she can’t get further.
The mentality from companies that a BA makes you smarter and more capable also needs to change. Most of the college kids I know (UCD) are entitled brats with no concept of reality.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

My sister works in medical billing. She made some bad choices in highschool, dropped out, finished her GED in her 20s and has her life on track. She worked before in Logistics for 3 years and left when she reached the top of the chain you could climb without a bachelors degree. Now after 3 years in medical billing she’s again maxed out possible promotions without a bachelors degree. She can do her boss’ job with 2 fingers in her nose but without that piece of paper she can’t get further.
The mentality from companies that a BA makes you smarter and more capable also needs to change. Most of the college kids I know (UCD) are entitled brats with no concept of reality.

This is incorrect. Employers aren’t assuming that college graduates are smarter. They are assuming that a person who undertook a task and committed 4 years of their life dedicated toward that goal understands something about dedication to a task. They are also assuming that a person like that has learned what earning a college degree teaches you - how to study and learn. Of course there’s people who are smart that didn’t go to of finish college. Of course there’s college graduates that aren’t particularly smart. However the average intellect college graduate is very likely earning much more over their career than the “super smart” person who didn’t attend college. Of course there’s exceptions. People love to point those out. But by and large graduates earn a lot more over their lifetimes.

I didn’t finish college when I first went because I lacked the maturity and foresight to see how beneficial it was. It wasn’t until years later when I grew up a little that I admitted to myself that I should have finished. So I went back and finished my degree. I earn a ton more money doing the same thing. Far better jobs in my field are available to me now that pay a lot more money with far less labor.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I met a farmer that had a BS in Aerospace Engineering from KU. He didn't use much of that degree in his farming. But he was a smart guy that was doing innovative and leading edge farming techniques that many of his neighbors weren't doing. That made him a lot more money. Maybe he would have done those things even if he hadn't gone to college, maybe not. But college did teach him critical thinking and to study. I'm sure there are many things on a farm that he understands better because of his engineering education.

The upstart business owner can benefit from subjects like accounting, marketing, and even industrial or manufacturing engineering.

We can come up with success and failure stories on either side of college/no college debate all day long. But it does elevate the lifetime earnings of most people that go to college. That data can be found in many places if you don't believe the Social Security sourced data I posted earlier.

The reason I'm such a proponent, is that I never finished my degree. I had completed an upper division ciriculum in engineering, and in business management, mostly at night. I eventually worked my way to the highest engineering classification in a company that makes large commercial airplanes. I recieved many awards for innovation in my company. But I know it took many years longer to get promoted thru these levels. In my career, my overall earnings were down significantly as compared to those that started with an engineering degree. It 's a tremendous handicap in earnings in most careers where you are an employee. Rightly so, I believe.

 

[TheBirdie72]

Very true about acquiring skills, developing critical thinking methods, etc...

But I think a big point of earning a college degree is that it checks a very crucial box when you apply for a job. While many employers don't 'discriminate' based on your educational level, many companies use automated hiring solutions that may automatically cut you out of the hiring pool if you don't meet the minimum qualifications (i.e. a bachelors degree). True, this can unfortunately eliminate some great candidates from even getting an interview. However, it is still a part of the process in many large companies, especially those that sift through thousands of applicants daily.

 

[Pinky Tuscadero]

Lot's of talk, no real answers on this post
Opinions are like....... hmmm, how does that go ?
-
The only real question is whether these guys can make it up daredevil mountain without using the trail in their Jeeps or not and they can only use the winch one time.
Now the college guy perhaps can use an algorithm to calculate the best path and articulate the angle of the dangle of the vertical plane better and take in to account the wind velocity
... and yet...
The dropout student can use his extra years of experience delivering pizzas in the snow with his Jeep to muscle his way up and even bring some of his buddies with who aren't too serious about work to help push just in case to avoid that winch limitation

 

[roaniecowpony]

Very true about acquiring skills, developing critical thinking methods, etc...

But I think a big point of earning a college degree is that it checks a very crucial box when you apply for a job. While many employers don't 'discriminate' based on your educational level, many companies use automated hiring solutions that may automatically cut you out of the hiring pool if you don't meet the minimum qualifications (i.e. a bachelors degree). True, this can unfortunately eliminate some great candidates from even getting an interview. However, it is still a part of the process in many large companies, especially those that sift through thousands of applicants daily.

I suppose it depends on the availability of applicants at any given time. If you have more applicants, you have more choices. A few years ago, any job posted had hundreds of applicants. Getting the number of applicants culled down to a manageable number was important. Using the right criteria to cull is always important.

 

[roaniecowpony]

And of course:

Discuss

Like anything you purchase, buyer beware. Would you buy something for $100K that will be worth zero in 4 years? In a lot of cases, a student loan is their first big purchase. Choose wisely.

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