Are winter tires necessary?

[jac04]

I actually run a set of JL Rubicon take-off KO2s as snow tires on my JT Mojave with Selec-Trac. They do really well, especially with the Selec-Trac 4AUTO engaged.

However, as Reinen stated, the KO2s don't have the rubber compound to deal with hard packed snow and icy conditions, so you need to know their limits. If you are going to be driving often in these conditions, get dedicated snow/ice tires.

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[AK500]

I'm in Alaska, and switch to studded tires in the winter. I've seen too many people in the ditch. Granted the roads stay iced over most of the winter.

 

[Bayrat]

Winter tires are totally not needed with the KOs you currently have. I have used them year around in the winter, running up icy mountain roads, deep snow and slippery highway conditions. They are a cleated tire, which will dig, and the lugs apply more surface pressure than a less aggressive ie flatter tire, which is best for running on ice. I have used them on both 2 and 4 door, auto and stick, on many Wranglers.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I recently moved to Denver and plan to hit the resorts often. I also wheel the heck out of my Jeep. Just put some KO2s on which are 3PMSF rated, do I need to consider a winter tire? What are the local Jeepers doing?

Hi run Goodyear Duratracs 35, 12,50 17. The Duratracs George. Best all around tire for street rocks trails snow run. They are rated incredible tires, and I think you would enjoy them if you drive to work every day and weel all weekend snow rain, or shine.

 

[OminousSkitter]

Hi run Goodyear Duratracs 35, 12,50 17. The Duratracs George. Best all around tire for street rocks trails snow run. They are rated incredible tires, and I think you would enjoy them if you drive to work every day and weel all weekend snow rain, or shine.

I think you've mentioned these tires in every single thread asking about tires on this forum, and damnit! These might just be the next set I buy whenever my current ones wear out.

 

[FrickinAdam]

I'm native to CO, been through many a winter with my first car... a 79 Camaro. =) You learn to drive in the winter you'll do fine. With 4wd you'll be totally ok. Those mountains passes are the worst when it comes to stopping, keep your distance and know that plenty of people like to drive on bald tires in the winter. Dont be that guy =) KO2s have worked great on my 99 Cherokee 5 speed and the 6 Speed JLU. Never needed chains - but if you plan on going Skiing and the weather is going to be rally bad take them. Again, stopping is more important than going.
Also, dont risk it if the weather is going to be really bad. Mountains will always be there, so will all the traffic.

 

[jeepoch]

@jerrygcoffey,

Jeremiah, I too live in the greater Denver area (Longmont). I've been daily driving my 2019 JL 2 Door Sport, lifted on my Goodyear Duratrac 35x12.5x17's over four years now, without issue. Sorry I have no experience on KO2's. But I routinely wheel off-road even in the winter. Without lockers, rubber means everything. I've only needed my traction boards once and not yet needed my chains (yet) while driving around town. But I do carry both year round. Snow, freezing drizzle and ice can happen at altitude even in the summer.

There is no such thing as inclement weather, just inappropriate clothing choices. Same with your Jeep. If you intend to drive in a blizzard or treacherous conditions you have to be prepared with proper rubber. However, I-70 traffic to Copper Mountain or Vail, they'll close the highway when things get really bad. So your KO2's should be just fine.

Getting up and over Rabbit Ear's Pass near Steamboat Springs on US40 may be more of a challenge. But again they'll close that highway too after any good dumping. I was once stuck for nearly an extra week in Steamboat over a Christmas break (oh shucks) because US40 was impassable. I could have always driven west several hundred miles out of the way to find an alternate way back to Denver, but Steamboat's just way too cool of a place to not get 'stranded' at least at some time in your life.

My advice would be to invest in a good set of tire chains and you'd be able to get nearly everywhere on-road. If you're more adventurous, winter (or even studded) tires, a winch, traction boards, recovery and survival gear would be highly recommended for any other off-road destination.

If you chose to wheel within reason of your skill and Jeep's capabilities any destination is potentially possible. But it sounds like chains may be the more practical in most cases.

Lastly, if you do get chains practice putting them both on and off. It's generally pretty miserable weather when they are needed as you're rushing up to a popular resort in bumper to bumper mayhem. Even though I haven't ever used mine on-road (yet), I've got my installation and teardown time down to about three to five minutes each side. Of course, I take much more deliberate time when off-road but the conditions are always much much better. Off-roading here in Colorado in bad weather is the legend of a Darwinism award.

Still (to me) installing chains is much easier than changing tires.

Best regards, have fun.
Jay

 

[Old Jeeper]

I think you've mentioned these tires in every single thread asking about tires on this forum, and damnit! These might just be the next set I buy whenever my current ones wear out.

I do so because and as I say they have been the best tires I’ve ever run for general Use Street Highway going to work. It’s aLao snow rated tire that works well in rocks sand, rain!

That said I don’t challenge trails beyond about six or seven been there done that don’t need to do it another 13 times in Moab. If I do go to Moab and I want to challenge the big boy trails I’ve always run BFG KM‘s nothing better. Done a lot of runs from Death Valley to Moab, Rubicon, you name it. This is given me the opportunity to observe tires so you’re out there banging away on Pritchett Canyon, Rubicon Trail. Let me tell you the BFG KMs out perform anything I’ve seen out there in my trail runs and I can tell you, for a fact, I sold a hell of a lot of BFG’s as a result.

if I endorse it, you can bet this engineer looked at it long and hard and it performed or I wouldn’t say anything at all.

 

[Heimkehr]

Not a resident of the Nil sine Numine state, but snow is hardly unknown to me.

I use proper snow tires, w/studs. This combination makes all the difference.

 

[J0E]

Three or four 60 lb sandbags will be better than any winter tire for winter road driving. Also note you need to carry chains on I-70 Nov to April.

Complete nonsense. I always have a set of 4 extra wheels and good studded snow tires. If you're going skiing, studs are required. I did lots of ice racing in MT, just keep it under 100 MPH or the studs come out. And don't race any subs with studs, you'll get your ass kicked.

If you're going in deep snow, chain up.

600% more traction with new shoes, why wouldn't you get new winter shoes. You can use them every year and your summer tires last that much longer. For snow and ice, fully aired up pizza cutters are best. Blizzak's are hard to beat.

Not a resident of the Nil sine Numine state, but snow is hardly unknown to me.

I use proper snow tires, w/studs. This combination makes all the difference.

The improvement is shocking to those who haven't been enlightened.

@jerrygcoffey,

Jeremiah, I too live in the greater Denver area (Longmont). I've been daily driving my 2019 JL 2 Door Sport, lifted on my Goodyear Duratrac 35x12.5x17's over four years now, without issue. Sorry I have no experience on KO2's. But I routinely wheel off-road even in the winter. Without lockers, rubber means everything. I've only needed my traction boards once and not yet needed my chains (yet) while driving around town. But I do carry both year round. Snow, freezing drizzle and ice can happen at altitude even in the summer.

There is no such thing as inclement weather, just inappropriate clothing choices. Same with your Jeep. If you intend to drive in a blizzard or treacherous conditions you have to be prepared with proper rubber. However, I-70 traffic to Copper Mountain or Vail, they'll close the highway when things get really bad. So your KO2's should be just fine.

Getting up and over Rabbit Ear's Pass near Steamboat Springs on US40 may be more of a challenge. But again they'll close that highway too after any good dumping. I was once stuck for nearly an extra week in Steamboat over a Christmas break (oh shucks) because US40 was impassable. I could have always driven west several hundred miles out of the way to find an alternate way back to Denver, but Steamboat's just way too cool of a place to not get 'stranded' at least at some time in your life.

My advice would be to invest in a good set of tire chains and you'd be able to get nearly everywhere on-road. If you're more adventurous, winter (or even studded) tires, a winch, traction boards, recovery and survival gear would be highly recommended for any other off-road destination.

If you chose to wheel within reason of your skill and Jeep's capabilities any destination is potentially possible. But it sounds like chains may be the more practical in most cases.

Lastly, if you do get chains practice putting them both on and off. It's generally pretty miserable weather when they are needed as you're rushing up to a popular resort in bumper to bumper mayhem. Even though I haven't ever used mine on-road (yet), I've got my installation and teardown time down to about three to five minutes each side. Of course, I take much more deliberate time when off-road but the conditions are always much much better. Off-roading here in Colorado in bad weather is the legend of a Darwinism award.

Still (to me) installing chains is much easier than changing tires.

Best regards, have fun.
Jay

Good advice. But I recommend snow wheeling in chains. Get some practice. With fully aired up tires and chains, you can go wheeling. In fact in 1 wd (one axle chained, no locker), you can go places the 4 WD with lockers aired down guys can't go.

The only thing I disagree with is traction boards

I agree with Matt (the recovery expert):

• I’ll say it again, if traction boards got you out, you weren’t really stuck in the first place.

I've never seen them beneficial.

I'm at 5.5-10k altitude in neighboring Utah, constantly in the mountains and resorts in the worst of conditions.

I swap out my KO2s each winter for Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3s. The KO2s are okay in fresh deep snow and off-road snow/dirt but that isn't what gets you in winter. Your Jeep will do a great job getting you through that. It's the ice that gets you and KO2s get sketchy on it. Especially snow compacted into ice on pavement and snowmelt refrozen into black ice, which you will find at the resorts. KO2s have the tread for snow but not the tire compound needed for ice. Once they skid they want to keep skidding and it can be hard to reign them back in.

The Hakkas on the other hand handle all the winter conditions like a champ. Even while skidding they always have some degree of control. They have glass crystals embedded in the tire compound that act like thousands of tiny studs. You can almost drive on ice like it isn't even there. There is no white knuckling it with the Hakkas but there will be moments with KO2s.

One final thing to remember, 4WD cannot drive as fast as AWD vehicles in on-road winter conditions. In curves you will find yourself in an oversteer skid far sooner than AWD will, but you're also far less likely to become outright stuck. Just like the fable, on winter roads 4WD is the tortoise and AWD is the hare.

One final thing to remember, 4WD cannot drive as fast as AWD vehicles in on-road winter

Exactly, did lots of ice racing on the interstate in MT. The subs with AWD dominated. When I raced my 4x4 PU, I had weight in the back and 4 studded tires, but raced in 2 WD. There's a lock in the xfer case that forces you into a spin on corners. Not so with AWD. So when it came to ice racing I used my mom Pontiac Catalina with 4 studded tires.

4 WD is OK on the highway if you don't go too fast, especially around corners.

If you have lockers, get some practice with how back lockers are on snow/ice in a parking lot.

If you have winter tires mounted on rims and swap them out yourself, the only long term cost is the cost of the rims (and your time). There is no additional (long term) cost for the tires as when you are consuming your winter tires you won’t be consuming your summer tires.
In return you get the best possible traction and safety in snow and ice conditions: Better handling, better braking, and better acceleration. If you are consistently on snowy and icy roads AND have available cash AND tire storage AND can swap out your tires then why not have the safest vehicle you can?
I went with the studded Hakka 10s. Not CO but we had 30”+ of heavy sticky snow over 3 days about 8 days ago - which packed to substantially rutted ice roads in the following days (where there was enough traffic) - it was a mess - the snow removal crews (who are some of the best in the world) were overwhelmed - 2 door Rubicon on Hakka 10s simply did not care. Ample traction, predictable handling, and the ability to safely avoid dozens of vehicles that were stuck, wallowing, or sliding. The jeep with Hakka 10s was superior in these conditions. Driving in these conditions was definitely safer for me and my loved ones than it was for others.

As an aside- this storm dumped over 6 feet in 24 hours on the Richardson Hwy - a long way from where I am.

Another great studded snow tire the provides an enormous safety and traction advantage.

Used rims are cheap if you keep checking FB market.

I'm in Alaska, and switch to studded tires in the winter. I've seen too many people in the ditch. Granted the roads stay iced over most of the winter.

I aways had a set in MT. WHen I moved to Seattle I got a set and used them mostly to go skiing, but still worth it.

Winter tires are totally not needed with the KOs you currently have. I have used them year around in the winter, running up icy mountain roads, deep snow and slippery highway conditions. They are a cleated tire, which will dig, and the lugs apply more surface pressure than a less aggressive ie flatter tire, which is best for running on ice. I have used them on both 2 and 4 door, auto and stick, on many Wranglers.

4wd totally not needed, until you need it. Far faster stopping, cornering, acceleration, everything. Anyone saying K02's work on snow and ice has never ice/snow raced or even gone fast.

 

[3TV]

Good advice. But I recommend snow wheeling in chains. Get some practice. With fully aired up tires and chains, you can go wheeling. In fact in 1 wd (one axle chained, no locker), you can go places the 4 WD with lockers aired down guys can't go.

I find it interesting the varying opinions on snow wheeling. A long time ago I competed in Four Wheeler Magazine's "Top Truck Challenge". I finished second place, and the guy that won was from northern Canada. Snow wheeling was what he did, in deep deep deep snow. His "Jeep" that beat me was a tube frame, fiberglass body snow buggy, that had a Cadilac 800 HP V8, and had fully independent suspension with huge travel numbers and an air system that could raise or lower each corner independently, and it had 44" TSL Bogger tires that had a section width of 18". We talked about the snow wheeling he did in Canada, near the arctic circle. He said that low air pressure was the key. He had inner and outer bead locks, and they would typically start the day at 5 PSI. If the going got really tough they would air down to 2 PSI, which would get them pretty much anywhere in deep untracked snow. If they managed to get stuck, they would take the valve stems completely out, which often improved traction enough to get unstuck and keep going.

Different conditions, and different methods that work. I agree tire chains beat pretty much any conventional tire. Maybe not a 44" Bogger, that is basically a paddle tire.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I recently moved to Denver and plan to hit the resorts often. I also wheel the heck out of my Jeep. Just put some KO2s on which are 3PMSF rated, do I need to consider a winter tire? What are the local Jeepers doing?

Last winter, I had to drive from DIA to COS with 37x12.5x17 Load Range C KO2's with about 25K on them and despite running 30PSI and driving slow they were all over the road.

As KO2's wear they exponentially lose traction in snow and rain despite the 3PMSF rating. Color me seriously unimpressed with them.

My Bronco has Goodyear Territory MT in 315/70/17 on it and so far they are much better than the BFG's, but time will tell as the season progresses.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Hi run Goodyear Duratracs 35, 12,50 17. The Duratracs George. Best all around tire for street rocks trails snow run. They are rated incredible tires, and I think you would enjoy them if you drive to work every day and weel all weekend snow rain, or shine.

When the Territory MTs wear out on my Bronco, I am leaning hard to the Duratracs. I had a set of Kanati Trail Hogs (essentially a Duratrac knock-off) in 315/70/17 and they were great.

Do the Duratrac whine more as they wear? The Kanati's did to a degree.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I recently moved to Denver and plan to hit the resorts often. I also wheel the heck out of my Jeep. Just put some KO2s on which are 3PMSF rated, do I need to consider a winter tire? What are the local Jeepers doing?

It really doesn’t snow that much in Denver, when it does they close the roads to the “resorts“ since most people are not prepared for anything in Denver anymore. Hell they close I-70 now because the sun is too bright…. So do like everyone else and use whatever tire you want.

Where I live snow tires are a life saver, cheaper than my deductible and are many times required to get to the grocery store. Roads in the mountains are snow covered for many months, I won’t see my driveway now until April…. We haven’t been above freezing in a week. -6°F Wednesday morning. But I thankfully don’t live in Denver.

 

[J0E]

I find it interesting the varying opinions on snow wheeling. A long time ago I competed in Four Wheeler Magazine's "Top Truck Challenge". I finished second place, and the guy that won was from northern Canada. Snow wheeling was what he did, in deep deep deep snow. His "Jeep" that beat me was a tube frame, fiberglass body snow buggy, that had a Cadilac 800 HP V8, and had fully independent suspension with huge travel numbers and an air system that could raise or lower each corner independently, and it had 44" TSL Bogger tires that had a section width of 18". We talked about the snow wheeling he did in Canada, near the arctic circle. He said that low air pressure was the key. He had inner and outer bead locks, and they would typically start the day at 5 PSI. If the going got really tough they would air down to 2 PSI, which would get them pretty much anywhere in deep untracked snow. If they managed to get stuck, they would take the valve stems completely out, which often improved traction enough to get unstuck and keep going.

Different conditions, and different methods that work. I agree tire chains beat pretty much any conventional tire. Maybe not a 44" Bogger, that is basically a paddle tire.

That massive of a tire can float on the right snow and in the right conditions, but once you start to climb, you just have a bigger sky. Taller is always better, you don't want to push snow. But 44's and chains fully aired up will run circles around 2 PSI boggers on real off road stuff. Go to any ranch in MT, WY, UT and what do they use to get to the cattle, tall skinny tires and 4 chains.

We talked about the snow wheeling he did in Canada, near the arctic circle.

That's far different snow than you'll find in the lower 48. In dry snow, anything works. The wetter the snow, the more you need to get to the earth.

Ditto for the guys in Iceland with monster tires a 4 PSI. They're mostly flatlanders

Several times we became stuck when our Hilux broke through the glacial ice and lost traction. Stefan explained that driving on a glacier was much different than in regular snow. The key is to go very slowly and to not break through the top layer. We found that it was easier said than done, and it seemed like we spent more time winching than glacial driving

I spent 30+ years doing deep snow recovery and the first folks I pulled out were the aired down mall crawlers. Years ago had to use a kinetic chain to do recoveries, many years before kinetic ropes were available. (chain-tire-chain-tire-chain).

I've seen the 44x18 at 4 PSI do pretty good in deep dry snow, but a 46 pizza cutter does far better in actual hills and difficult offroad conditions.

My LJR on 42.8x14.5R 17 at 7 PSI is crap in snow.

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