Sean L

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Yeah @Sean L and @Ratiogear I do get that they’re not exactly comparable, what I take issue with is the blanket assertion that the 4xE always makes more sense financially.

Even pound for pound, option for option, a lot of people don’t qualify for that $7500 rebate/credit. And even that rebate/credit itself won’t be around forever. How much economic sense will it make when that $7500 goes away?
I would say it really comes down to personal preference and how the vehicle fits your lifestyle over the tax credit. The Diesel would be a better fit to someone that has a long daily drive, The 4Xe for someone that has a short drive. Depending on what you do with it, your 2 Door with a manual just may use less gas than the 4Xe.





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Echo4papa

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I would say it really comes down to personal preference and how the vehicle fits your lifestyle over the tax credit. The Diesel would be a better fit to someone that has a long daily drive, The 4Xe for someone that has a short drive. Depending on what you do with it, your 2 Door with a manual just may use less gas than the 4Xe.
You might not even care about MPG at all, a lot of people don't. The extra HP and torque from the electric drive might be what lures you over to the 4xe even if you don't have a short commute.

Also, I just read this morning that the tax credit might be going up to $12,500 and removal of the 200,000 vehicle cap, replacing that with a 3-year phase out triggered by electric cars reaching a 50% market share of new passenger vehicle sales.
 

Ratiogear

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You might not even care about MPG at all, a lot of people don't. The extra HP and torque from the electric drive might be what lures you over to the 4xe even if you don't have a short commute.

Also, I just read this morning that the tax credit might be going up to $12,500 and removal of the 200,000 vehicle cap, replacing that with a 3-year phase out triggered by electric cars reaching a 50% market share of new passenger vehicle sales.
Hot DAMN that sounds pretty sweet.
 

Sean L

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You might not even care about MPG at all, a lot of people don't. The extra HP and torque from the electric drive might be what lures you over to the 4xe even if you don't have a short commute.
This is true, Its got some power output numbers similar to a 5.7. I do want to take one on a test drive to see how it really feels.
 

Echo4papa

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This is true, Its got some power output numbers similar to a 5.7. I do want to take one on a test drive to see how it really feels.
Power delivery is deceptively smooth. If you were near me, I'd take you out for a spin. It really is impressive on multiple levels.
 

Sean L

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Power delivery is deceptively smooth. If you were near me, I'd take you out for a spin. It really is impressive on multiple levels.
I would have been happy to take you up on that. :fist bump:
 

No IFS

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This Just in , The super awesome 4XE needs a $12,500 Incentive to get people to buy it. Just like all new super popular vehicles that just came out they put on a huge rebate. Like the large rebates on the new corvette, This is all normal for a Brand new Exciting model. 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 I wonder how much the rebate will be on the 392? 😂🤣😂🤣
 

SnB4xe

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Does it has 375 hp and 470 lb/ft all day long or only when battery has sufficient charge?

oh, BTW I'm 75 and still super hard and long lasting(when had hand full of magic blue pills).....

jokes aside, still awesome to see more Technology, more choices, and more options.
It only has those power levels if the battery has sufficient charge. That being said.....the vehicle ensures it always has sufficient charge so the end result is that you have 375 hp all day long.

The way it works is that Jeep has split the battery into 3 partitions (for lack of a better description). The EV partition is reported to be about 14.7 kWh and that is what is displayed on the dash gauge as 0%-100%. The Hybrid portion is about 8-9% possibly (if anyone knows exact percentage than feel free to add to this post...) When the EV partition charge is depleted, then the vehicle begins using the energy stored in the hybrid portion and it is able to replenish that energy while the engine is running. So, in theory, it won't ever run out completely because the computers won't allow that.

So, if the EV portion is depleted and you make repeated 1/4 mile drag pulls on the hybrid energy portion of the battery then you won't be able to replenish it as fast as you are depleting it so eventually the vehicle will be left with just 275 hp which is the engine alone without very much electric assist.

The remaining 6-7% of the battery is reserved for battery health and we never get to see or make use of that portion of the battery. Not directly. Eventually, over many charge/discharge cycles....the EV portion will degrade from the aforementioned 14.7 kWh to something less. The software can (if the programming allows), unlock some of that reserve capacity so the user doesn't observe any range loss. The other reason for the hidden reserve is to ensure the battery is never physically fully charged or fully discharged. Doing this improves battery health and longevity and ensures it will meet or exceed the warranty requirements.
 

Ron93YJ

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It only has those power levels if the battery has sufficient charge. That being said.....the vehicle ensures it always has sufficient charge so the end result is that you have 375 hp all day long.

The way it works is that Jeep has split the battery into 3 partitions (for lack of a better description). The EV partition is reported to be about 14.7 kWh and that is what is displayed on the dash gauge as 0%-100%. The Hybrid portion is about 8-9% possibly (if anyone knows exact percentage than feel free to add to this post...) When the EV partition charge is depleted, then the vehicle begins using the energy stored in the hybrid portion and it is able to replenish that energy while the engine is running. So, in theory, it won't ever run out completely because the computers won't allow that.

So, if the EV portion is depleted and you make repeated 1/4 mile drag pulls on the hybrid energy portion of the battery then you won't be able to replenish it as fast as you are depleting it so eventually the vehicle will be left with just 275 hp which is the engine alone without very much electric assist.

The remaining 6-7% of the battery is reserved for battery health and we never get to see or make use of that portion of the battery. Not directly. Eventually, over many charge/discharge cycles....the EV portion will degrade from the aforementioned 14.7 kWh to something less. The software can (if the programming allows), unlock some of that reserve capacity so the user doesn't observe any range loss. The other reason for the hidden reserve is to ensure the battery is never physically fully charged or fully discharged. Doing this improves battery health and longevity and ensures it will meet or exceed the warranty requirements.
I wasn’t aware of all of this. Good to know.
 

CptFloridaMan

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Blame 32-inch tires, 5,000 lbs of curb weight, and all the aerodynamics of a wall.
Hey now, you’re forgetting that they slanted the windshield sir. So it’s a slanted wall.
 

twisty

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This Just in , The super awesome 4XE needs a $12,500 Incentive to get people to buy it. Just like all new super popular vehicles that just came out they put on a huge rebate. Like the large rebates on the new corvette, This is all normal for a Brand new Exciting model. 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 I wonder how much the rebate will be on the 392? 😂🤣😂🤣
Could be. More likely they need people to buy these things to offset the 392's and other less efficient motors.

As impressive as the 4XE sounds it just doesnt appeal to me nearly as much as a 392 or other V8 jeep MIGHT offer.

So selfishly speaking I hope they sell a zillion of these things.
 

michail

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Could be. More likely they need people to buy these things to offset the 392's and other less efficient motors.

As impressive as the 4XE sounds it just doesnt appeal to me nearly as much as a 392 or other V8 jeep MIGHT offer.

So selfishly speaking I hope they sell a zillion of these things.
It's also not a rebate. It's an income tax credit. Currently, it's 7,500.

The 12,500 credit would kick in for purchases on or after January 1, 2022. So you wouldn't see that until April 2023. Your taxable income also has to be high enough to get the full credit.

The 4xe does have a few nice things going for it
  • Superior crawling ability to any wrangler
  • Lower center of gravity and a near 50/50 weight distribution for improved handling. Heavy but not compared to the 392
  • Ability to drive in nature while topless and silent
  • Extra inch of lift
I'd not judge it as an efficient vehicle, because it's not. But I do have 800 miles on my current tank of gas and I'm at 50% on the fuel gage. That's even including 4 hours driving on trails.
 

twisty

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It's also not a rebate. It's an income tax credit. Currently, it's 7,500.

The 12,500 credit would kick in for purchases on or after January 1, 2022. So you wouldn't see that until April 2023. Your taxable income also has to be high enough to get the full credit.

The 4xe does have a few nice things going for it
  • Superior crawling ability to any wrangler
  • Lower center of gravity and a near 50/50 weight distribution for improved handling. Heavy but not compared to the 392
  • Ability to drive in nature while topless and silent
  • Extra inch of lift
I'd not judge it as an efficient vehicle, because it's not. But I do have 800 miles on my current tank of gas and I'm at 50% on the fuel gage. That's even including 4 hours driving on trails.
That is a nice list if true. And sounds pretty efficient to me. lol What are the negatives?

Arent the batteries inside the cab near/under the back seat?
How long do the batteries last before replacement is needed, and how much?
Does the batteries need heating and cooling lines?

I guess I would feel better about AMC and batteries, but not real happy with my ESS with an extra battery and two visits to the shop. ;)

But again, admittedly the 4xe sounds good.
 

Echo4papa

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Could be. More likely they need people to buy these things to offset the 392's and other less efficient motors.

As impressive as the 4XE sounds it just doesnt appeal to me nearly as much as a 392 or other V8 jeep MIGHT offer.

So selfishly speaking I hope they sell a zillion of these things.
The tax credit is not implemented by FCA, it's a Federal tax credit
That is a nice list if true. And sounds pretty efficient to me. lol What are the negatives?

Arent the batteries inside the cab near/under the back seat?
How long do the batteries last before replacement is needed, and how much?
Does the batteries need heating and cooling lines?

I guess I would feel better about AMC and batteries, but not real happy with my ESS with an extra battery and two visits to the shop. ;)

But again, admittedly the 4xe sounds good.
Yes, the batteries are under the back seats, which takes up some cabin space. There is no room under the seats and when you fold them forward they don't lay flat with the back cargo area.

Since this is the first year of the 4xe, we don't have any data on longevity of the batteries for this particular model, but we do have a 10 year warranty on the batteries.

There is an entire hybrid management system including temperature maintenance like any other hybrid.

Interesting that you bring up the ESS system because that's one of the things I was concerned about and needed to experience in a test drive before I purchasing the 4xe. In the 4xe, even with the depleted battery and running on the ICE, it still shuts off and runs on the electric motors at low speeds and at a stop. However, unlike the ESS system, it isn't dependent on starting the ICE to get moving again.
 

michail

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That is a nice list if true. And sounds pretty efficient to me. lol What are the negatives?
There are always negative, lol 😆

Loss of some of the rear seat room and an extra hump when the seats fold flat are one. It's still very comfortable though.

I also find I get annoyed when the engine does need to idle in hybrid mode. But it's a trade off for getting range. I wouldn't normally, but it's so smooth and quiet in most of my day to day. It just feels like something is wrong with the vehicle when the engine is on, lol.

I just don't see a full EV Wrangler getting good range given current battery technology.

I trust the engineers and engineering, but I'm wary of the factory/assembly line in dealing with extra complexity. So far no problems though.

A full electric vehicle benefits from an extra level of simplicity, like the F150 lightning.

As far as the tax credit goes, I feel like I'm getting a choice on where my taxes get spent.
 

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