15% Ethanol Starting May 1st?

[yokramer]

actually e85 is waaaay better than normal fuel. it runs much, much cooler allowing the engineers to edge a decent amount of additional power out of it. the issue is you consume ~30% more of it compared to normal fuel, leading to horrendous MPG numbers.

a very common engine tune in the performance world is an e85 tune for this very reason. many vehicles require larger injectors to run this fuel alongside the tune.

It makes a TON more power sure but it is way more inefficient which makes it worse for a daily.

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[2nd 392]

It makes a TON more power sure but it is way more inefficient which makes it worse for a daily.

IF e-85 was available here, and IF a flex fuel tune is available, and IF it is CARB approved I would likely get one. Most aren’t saddled with that last one.

 

[yokramer]

IF e-85 was available here, and IF a flex fuel tune is available, and IF it is CARB approved I would likely get one. Most aren’t saddled with that last one.

Corn juice has its place for sure. There was an Evo that I used to autox with that ran E85+ and you could smell the difference but that fucker was fast. Same with a few Subarus/Evos/GTRs at a performance shop I worked at for a bit. Its good to make power but beyond that its a waste of money from start to finish.

 

[2nd 392]

Corn juice has its place for sure. There was an Evo that I used to autox with that ran E85+ and you could smell the difference but that fucker was fast. Same with a few Subarus/Evos/GTRs at a performance shop I worked at for a bit. Its good to make power but beyond that its a waste of money from start to finish.

I wonder exactly how the flex fuel tunes work. Do they compensate for small changes like e-15 ?. Your tank isn’t completely empty when you fill up with the other….. I haven’t seen it around here in decades so I haven’t investigated.

 

[yokramer]

I wonder exactly how the flex fuel tunes work. Do they compensate for small changes like e-15 ?. Your tank isn’t completely empty when you fill up with the other….. I haven’t seen it around here in decades so I haven’t investigated.

You get a tune for what your base fuel is (better be 93 with that 392 you cheap fuck lol) and then empty the tank as best you can and fill with E85, the sensor can tell the percentage of ethanol it the system and then tune again with that mixture. You can tune as much as you want with different percentages to help dial it in better but between the sensor and ECU it will compensate for what percentage the sensor is telling the ECU is running through it.

 

[2nd 392]

You get a tune for what your base fuel is (better be 93 with that 392 you cheap fuck lol) and then empty the tank as best you can and fill with E85, the sensor can tell the percentage of ethanol it the system and then tune again with that mixture. You can tune as much as you want with different percentages to help dial it in better but between the sensor and ECU it will compensate for what percentage the sensor is telling the ECU is running through it.

Uhh- I also haven’t seen over 91 since the mid 80’s. Union 76 was the last holdout at 92 for some time. Cheapsk , uh frugal guy would happily pay for 93, or more for pure gas also not seen within memory.
Wait- memory flash “gasahol” introduced early 80’s… and tried to kill me. My first tank was because it was all we could get for a MC ride to Yosemite. The crap ate the liner plugging a pinhole in my tank and it pissed gas on me and the hot bike’s engine and exhaust all the way home. The fuel line/filter replaced full of bits of the liner. Tank also replaced.

 

[yokramer]

Uhh- I also haven’t seen over 91 since the mid 80’s. Union 76 was the last holdout at 92 for some time. Cheapsk , uh frugal guy would happily pay for 93, or more for pure gas also not seen within memory.

Oh yea cali only does 91 I forgot lol

 

[2nd 392]

Oh yea cali only does 91 I forgot lol

See edit, old slow memory flash on “gasahol”

 

[6.2Blazer]

If we're going to be told to get things straight, here's something else to remember:
The EPA weren't the engineers who designed the engines in our vehicles. It follows that that agency's employees shouldn't attempt to goalpost-shift the fuel specifications that the same engineers originally specified for said engines. Recall the cogent example of the Miata mentioned on p. 1 of this thread. May that owner community submit their repair invoices to the EPA for reimbursement after following their instruction without question?

The idea that we should place blind faith in unelected bureaucrats, with regard to what they (and not the OEMs) would insist is acceptable for use in what for many of us is the second-most expensive purchases that we'll make in our lifetimes, is laughable.

I'm no big fan of the EPA and all of the restrictions and policies they make, but can tell you that either the EPA or politicians did not just blindly say "hey, let's make E15". I worked in automotive testing for an independent company (i.e. not a manufacturer) for many years back when E15 was approved. While not 100% directly involved the company I worked for was involved with some of the testing and verification of the fuel. Just the small percentage of work done at this company took place for over at least a couple years and involved running multiple different vehicles for many miles and evaluating them. The EPA also worked in conjunction with the manufacturers on approving this. The automotive industry is huge in many ways and the government is not going to suddenly and randomly impose new restrictions without working with the manufacturers and giving them time to react. Like the example of when they went to unleaded gas many years ago. The government just didn't decide to do that overnight. The manufacturers knew that was happening years in advance and had been producing vehicles that ran on unleaded gas way before the switch.

 

[6.2Blazer]

The negligible difference will be loss of mpg

So yes, the higher the ethanol content the lower MPG you may get. That is because ethanol has around 30% lower energy content than straight gasoline. This means you need more ethanol for the same amount of energy.
Just keep in mind that if ethanol has 30% less power it is also just 10% mixed into E10. So 10% of 30% means the energy content on E10 is only 3% lower than straight gas.
For E15 is 15% of 30% which is 4.5%.
On paper if you got 20 MPG on E15 you would see an increase to less than 21 MPG on straight gas.

 

[alphawolff]

The real benefit of E85 is it runs cooler than gasoline. Keeping combustion temps down allows the vehicle to make additional power. I believe GM engineers at one point were considering lobbying congress to make E85 standard in order to make meeting emissions targets easier in their turbo engines.

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