Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[mischman]

TSB 08-092-18 under Symptom/Condition A customer may describe a high steering effort occurring only during colder ambient and system operating temperatures and at speeds above 96 KPH (60mph). At lower speeds or warmer system temperature the steering assist will feel normal.

Thats the same one noted here.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/my-steering-issues-have-been-fixed.12843/

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[TJ&JL]

Thats the same one noted here.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/my-steering-issues-have-been-fixed.12843/

yeah, It just proves that temperature has an effect on our steering. I've never owned a vehicle where the temperature had any change on the steering except when it gets below zero.

 

[x8086]

TSB 08-092-18 under Symptom/Condition A customer may describe a high steering effort occurring only during colder ambient and system operating temperatures and at speeds above 96 KPH (60mph). At lower speeds or warmer system temperature the steering assist will feel normal.

My experience has been the opposite. Warmer temperatures, sloppy with lots of steering play. Cooler temperature feels tighter with less steering play.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Lower temperatures hardly any steering wheel play and can drive with one hand or finger at 60mph+ speeds.

Higher, especially 90 degree+ weather it wanders, drifts and has slack or play in the steering wheel. Darts unexpectedly.

OMFG. I just took mine for a test drive at around 11:00pm ET because of what I just read that others posted about different outside temperatures. Outside temperature here now is 77 degrees, 91 to 97 during the day. It drives like a completely different vehicle when I drove it tonight! I rarely drive late at night and haven't with this vehicle at all. It is still around 80 to 85 at 7pm lately. It isn't perfect at cooler temp of 77, but WAY the F better. Geeze. Might be perfect if it was 65 degrees or less outside if it is steering this well now.

I took my infrared laser thermometer and it is showing 175 degrees on the steering box after I drove it for about 20 minutes, half of which was around 55MPH and half around 45MPH. Very acceptable steering now - "drives like a Jeep now" instead of a possessed demon trying to drive me into the ditch or into the other lane.

As I mentioned before, the dealership replaced my steering box a few days ago, no difference in steering. The part number for the steering box is the newest version - 68250506-AD. What doesn't make sense, is that you'd think no matter hot outside it is, it would still "peak" temperature on its own due to internal friction and that any fluids would also cap out at a temperature caused by the vehicle, not the outside temperature. But too many people in this thread have said it drives different with cooler outside temps. WTF. Maybe there is a better steering fluid to use that would tolerate higher temperatures? Or is it the aluminum casing on the steering box transferring outside heat into the inside?

Also, I wonder if there is a way, as a test, not a long term solution to cool the steering box - fan, ice pack with velcro, freeze spray, etc. I heard that the JL is using a new wiring harness system from Fiat. I wonder if voltage / amps to the electric steering system drops due to external outside heat on wiring. Other heat related thoughts?

I'll drive it again tomorrow during the heat of the day and take another temperature reading. It still should be at 175 degrees after a 20 minute drive again, but I'm not sure.

Update: I drove it at around 8am ET Mon Aug 27. Temp outside per the Uconnect system is 79. Drives great now. I'll drive again at 90+ degrees outside today, which should be around 1 or 2 pm ET, late lunch. I guess I don't have to worry driving late at night or early morning if I get a patrol car behind me since it doesn't look like I'm drunk driving during those hours. lol

 

[IPvFletch]

Hey all - I just picked up my JLUSS (Sport S) yesterday and have already noticed how loose the steering is. It was just as loose again early this morning (before it got hot, here in TX). My build date is around July 30, and it just arrived at the dealer a few days ago. The 0809218 TSB says it only applies to build dates before May 08. I have a good 2 inches of play in my steering, and it's pretty hard to keep a straight line. I've never had an issue like this before in any car I've owned (including an old TJ with Death Wobble and an early JKU). While I did expect the JLU to be a bit more loose than my last car (Grand Cherokee), I feel really unnerved driving it, and if there IS an actual problem, I want to have it fixed.

Based on some of the comments in these 2 related steering threads, I'm worried the dealer will just waste my time and tell me nothing's wrong.

Should I bother taking it in to have them look anyways?

Or should I just jump the gun and do the re-calibration myself, and hope for the best:

Not how I had hoped to make my grand entrance into JLWForums, but hey at least I'm not officially lurking anymore, right? :cwl:

 

[jeremyjeep]

Hey all - I just picked up my JLUSS (Sport S) yesterday and have already noticed how loose the steering is. It was just as loose again early this morning (before it got hot, here in TX). My build date is around July 30, and it just arrived at the dealer a few days ago. The 0809218 TSB says it only applies to build dates before May 08. I have a good 2 inches of play in my steering, and it's pretty hard to keep a straight line. I've never had an issue like this before in any car I've owned (including an old TJ with Death Wobble and an early JKU). While I did expect the JLU to be a bit more loose than my last car (Grand Cherokee), I feel really unnerved driving it, and if there IS an actual problem, I want to have it fixed.

Based on some of the comments in these 2 related steering threads, I'm worried the dealer will just waste my time and tell me nothing's wrong.

Should I bother taking it in to have them look anyways?

Or should I just jump the gun and do the re-calibration myself, and hope for the best:

Not how I had hoped to make my grand entrance into JLWForums, but hey at least I'm not officially lurking anymore, right? :cwl:

It will 100% depend on your dealer. Call ahead and ask if they will do a test drive with you so you can demonstrate the problem. If they will test drive it with you, then it is worth a shot. One of the dealers near me refused to test drive it with me and said there was no problem. I took it to another dealer, the tech drove it and he saw the problem right away. Also, be sure to call Jeep at 866-362-2146 to report it. That way it will be yet another one to help bring more attention to it.

 

[Richamby]

Check and drop your tire pressures to 36 to 38 psi first.

That cured 90 percent of my problem.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Check out the recent spike in Google searches on Jeep Wrangler steering related keyword phrases below. Date range is 1/1/2004 to 8/27/18. Source: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2004-01-01 2018-08-27&geo=US&q=Jeep Wrangler steering. According to the Google keyword tool, there were 6,345 searches for Jeep Wrangler steering related keyword phrases in the last 30 days.

 

[IPvFletch]

@richambry I just did what you said - it was at 42psi from the factory so I dropped it down to the recommended 36psi. I want to say it's a LOT better!! Seriously, I would say it's noticeably better for sure. There's definitely still at least 1" maybe 2" of play where I can wiggle the steering wheel, and it has no affect on steering, but I felt a lot more confident driving it at higher speeds just now, and it felt a lot more stable. Maybe it's just "snake oil" or me wanting it to feel better... kinda like how the "butt dyno" works... I might even cancel my dealer appt tomorrow now, and just hold out and give it another day or two. Maybe I will even drop it to like 28psi..

Anyways, thanks for the tip, I think it is an important thing to check, esp. on a new vehicle which was built in OH and delivered to TX, where it's a lot hotter, so the PSI rises after shipment.

 

[cabnfvr]

My experience has been the opposite. Warmer temperatures, sloppy with lots of steering play. Cooler temperature feels tighter with less steering play.

Don't let the Service Bulletin confuse you. It was issued for steering that was very hard to turn at speed. It was not issued for steering wheel play, although the ECU reflash seems to help in most cases.

As for cold feeling better, the power steering fluid viscosity is more likely changing the feel than the temperature of a steering component.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Don't let the Service Bulletin confuse you. It was issued for steering that was very hard to turn at speed. It was not issued for steering wheel play, although the ECU reflash seems to help in most cases.

As for cold feeling better, the power steering fluid viscosity is more likely changing the feel than the temperature of a steering component.

Also, both manuals for the JL and JK say "Mopar Power Steering Fluid +4" so not sure it is the fluid viscosity, unless the JL's electric / hydraulic steering system is more sensitive to changes in viscosity.

 

[cabnfvr]

Also, the steering fluid in a JK (hydraulic) is different steering fluid than a JL (electric). But wouldn't other electric steering vehicles have the same steering problems? Or is the steering fluid for JL unique?

I think the steering fluid is the same but there are still a lot of variables for the Jeep engineers to sort through. And Jeep is the only vehicle out there that I know of with a solid axle controlling 60 to 90 +pounds of wheel and tire but I don't think it's suspension related. Bumps in the road don't seem to upset the steering at all. What doesn't make sense is why it's taking Jeep so long to respond to those that are having this issue.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Possibly, but there are too many variables to be sure. Viscosity of JK vs JL steering fluid? Does the steering cooler have a temperature setting? And Jeep is the only vehicle out there that I know of with a solid axle controlling 60 to 90 +pounds of wheel and tire. (But I don't think it's suspension related. Bumps in the road don't seem to upset the steering at all.) What doesn't make sense is why it's taking Jeep so long to respond.

I found this thread in a 2 minute Google search about electronic steering and higher outside temperatures on other vehicle brands - especially read the one that is a bit more than half way through the thread, look for "outside temp" - https://www.bmwcca.org/forum/index.php?threads/sticking-steering-unsolved-mystery.5921/. Slightly different symptoms, but was related to steering.

 

[Saejin]

Fascinating. Questions:

1. If it has 1/3 or 1/4 inch steering input on the steering wheel before the tires move, shouldn't it drive worse versus a vehicle that has no delay?

2. When you adjusted the steering box, shouldn't you of needed to move the allen screw by 1/16 vs the nut?

3. How much force did you apply to get the nut loose on the steering box? Did you use a regular wrench or a socket? It would be cool to see a video of someone getting the nut loose.

Thanks for doing this research.

1. Yes it drives worse than my wife’s SUV and my previous Audi. Both of hide had zero play, however both were rack and pinion steering setup and the Jeep is a steering box with a pitman arm. I went from 1/3 to 1/4 inch of play, so it’s better now. Don’t think I’ll ever get to zero inches of play simply due to the fact of how steering boxes works and how our steering systems is designed. That play is required for off road.

2. The nut and Allen screw are locked together with red locktite. In order to adjust it you have to break the nut free and loosen it by a half turn. Then you have to secure the nut with and open wrench and then try and break the Allen screw free which many have tried to do and failed ending up with stripped out Allen screws. I decided to leav the alllen screw in place and just tighten down the nut more which worked.

3. I used a socket with a pretty long extension and a pivot adapter since getting to the nut is at an angle. At first I used a normal socket wrench and it wouldn’t move. I then used a torque wrench which gave me more leverage to break it free. I then tightened back up using the same torque wrench. But be careful. The torque wrench applies tremendous force to the nut and you easily stripped out the threads or even break the steering box. After it moved 1/16 of inch I was done as it was what others reported as being able to move.

In my mind if I were a tech building these and had to adjust the Allen screw and nut on initial setup I would determine the position of the Allen screw and set to spec and the hood in place while I tightened up the nit to secure everything. Since it’s all being held by red locktite there would be no need to torque it down beyond 10lbs or so. It’s not something. That will work itself loose after time. It’s a set and forget adjustment.

 

[Saejin]

For the other posts about weather. Winter is coming so I’m sure we’ll see all the differences here soon.

Are steering system is a gear box not rack and pinion. Also it’s electice hydro assist so there is still ydraulic fluid required to move the gears in the steering box. It’s not an all electric steering box. I’m thinking like others have posted the temp of the hydraulic fluid impacts it’s viscosity and therefore changes how the steering feels.

That’s why the TSB states lockup occurs at colder temps...the fluid is thicker and probably won’t move through the gearbox as it should. It would be like driving a car without power steering back in the day. You can turn it but it’s very hard.

Also, the gearbox has a cone type gear so if you make it too tight to take away the play as you turn the wheel more you can introduce binding in the gear system which could result in lockup, tighter steering when in a turn, or slow to return to center.

I’m not mechanic, but have read a few articles and stayed in a holiday inn express a few times.

Can’t wait until winter arrives and we all start to report steering lockup’s at speed. Haha

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