Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[jeremyjeep]

@jeremyjeep, the parts normally used from a lift kit to adjust caster are adjustable lower control arms. Most lift kits more than a couple of inches come with adjustable lower arms so caster can be set back to spec. I'm not aware of how shims could be used to adjust caster. Caster is set by adjusting the control arm lengths to rotate the axle forwards/backwards. The stock control arms are not adjustable, so you can't adjust caster with them. Only the stock tie rod and drag link are adjustable. So you can adjust toe in and center the steering wheel.

You can pick up a Wixey digital angle gauge for about $30 if you want to check your caster. Get the Jeep on level ground, then crawl underneath and put the gauge on the flat spot on the bottom of the inner "C" at the end of the axle.

Try and detect any free play in your steering wheel with the engine off (no power assist). Move the wheel back and forth until you feel resistance. If you can't detect at least a very small amount of free play, then maybe @Richamby is correct that your steering box doesn't have enough lash. If it's set too tight, it won't return to center properly.

@vavaroutsos I did the test you mentioned and there is some free play in the steering wheel with the engine off. What else could cause it to not the wheels not to turn back straight after turning the wheel a bit? As I mentioned in another post, if I go to an empty large parking lot, turn the steering wheel left or right slightly, let go of the steering wheel, the tires don't return to the straightened positing and it drives around in a big circle. I tested this same technique with a 2018 JK loaner they gave me and the tires straightened out with steering wheel input. Same result for that test in my other vehicle and a friend's vehicle. I thought would be a caster alignment issue, but maybe there is something else causing that? I am bringing it to an auto repair shop this week that has alignment equipment and will pay them to check caster alignment. It is like paying another doctor for a second opinion. Worth it.

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[vavaroutsos]

@vavaroutsos I did the test you mentioned and there is some free play in the steering wheel with the engine off. What else could cause it to not the wheels not to turn back straight after turning the wheel a bit? As I mentioned in another post, if I go to an empty large parking lot, turn the steering wheel left or right slightly, let go of the steering wheel, the tires don't return to the straightened positing and it drives around in a big circle. I tested this same technique with a 2018 JK loaner they gave me and the tires straightened out with steering wheel input. Same result for that test in my other vehicle and a friend's vehicle. I thought would be a caster alignment issue, but maybe there is something else causing that? I am bringing it to an auto repair shop this week that has alignment equipment and will pay them to check caster alignment. It is like paying another doctor for a second opinion. Worth it.

Have you already checked the toe in? You only need a tape measure to check it. It seems the most likely thing to be off on a new Jeep with stock suspension components. Here's a brief description of alignment metrics and their affect on handling.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Have you already checked the toe in? You only need a tape measure to check it. It seems the most likely thing to be off on a new Jeep with stock suspension components. Here's a brief description of alignment metrics and their affect on handling.

The dealership checked toe in and it is "in spec" according to them. What symptoms would one see if the steering box is too lose? What symptoms would one see if the steering box is too tight?

 

[x8086]

What's interesting is I've sent Jeep Cares an email over a week ago. I've sent a PM over this steering issue and questionable welds that have holes.

No response...

Guess I'll pick up the phone on Monday.

 

[Richamby]

Jeremyjeep, when you tighten a recirculating ball type steering, to tight, when you turn the wheel, it stays turned. I did this trying to improve steering on old race cars.

So if you turn the wheel and it stays turned and you have to physically turn it back, its too tight.

If you still have steering play when it is adjusted properly, either the steering box bad or something else is bad.
We use to look at idler arm bushings but on a Jeep, it would be something else.

 

[Richamby]

Caster is the alignment setting, that straightens a vehicle back from a turn.

I might have misunderstood how you are describing wheel stays turned.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Caster is the alignment setting, that straightens a vehicle back from a turn.

I might have misunderstood how you are describing wheel stays turned.

So if the tires stay turned after turning the steering wheel left or right and the tires won’t straighten out, AND it takes constant steering wheel changes without a dead spot isn’t the steering wheel to stay in lane (drifting), that means it is more likely caster or too tight on the steering box? Or something else completely?

And for everyone else with drifting problems, do your tires straighten back up after both a left or right turn? You can test this in a large empty parking lot. Very dangerous to test this on a regular road with traffic.

 

[Saejin]

So if the tires stay turned after turning the steering wheel left or right and the tires won’t straighten out, AND it takes constant steering wheel changes without a dead spot isn’t the steering wheel to stay in lane (drifting), that means it is more likely caster or too tight on the steering box? Or something else completely?

And for everyone else with drifting problems, do your tires straighten back up after both a left or right turn? You can test this in a large empty parking lot. Very dangerous to test this on a regular road with traffic.

Here’s my guess and I mentioned in the past for those who were adjusting the steering box on their own not to make it too tight as it wouldn’t return to center.

If alignment is spot on and steering is good, any car will naturally want to proceed in a straight direction when at speed. That’s why when coming out of a turn when you apply throttle the vehicle will return to center and continue in a straight line.

When you adjust the steering box or have one that is too tight it won’t allow the vehicle to return to center in its own naturally.

Now what’s is causing the drifting or need for constant correction while on the road. Well all roads aren’t perfectly level and straight. So now you’re having to move the wheel to adjust for crown, road imperfections, and the inherent characteristics of larger tires which drift a bit. When you move your steering wheel to stay in your lane your vehicle continues to go in that direction whereas if it was looser it the wheel would push back with a bit of resistance as it wants to go straight. All this helps the vehicle track better and makes it easier for your to stay in lane. Since you have tighter steering you move the wheel to adjust and then you have to move it again to adjust and so forth and so forth.

Try this. When driving down the highway you should be able to let go of the wheel and for a few seconds the Jeep will stay perfectly straight and then start to slightly move left or right depending on road crown.

Hope the above makes sense. Hard to explain in words.

Also, since your steering box is so tight do you have any issues with the hydro assist locking up the steering when you’re above 55 and trying to take a turn like on an exit?

 

[jeremyjeep]

Here’s my guess and I mentioned in the past for those who were adjusting the steering box on their own not to make it too tight as it wouldn’t return to center.

If alignment is spot on and steering is good, any car will naturally want to proceed in a straight direction when at speed. That’s why when coming out of a turn when you apply throttle the vehicle will return to center and continue in a straight line.

When you adjust the steering box or have one that is too tight it won’t allow the vehicle to return to center in its own naturally.

Now what’s is causing the drifting or need for constant correction while on the road. Well all roads aren’t perfectly level and straight. So now you’re having to move the wheel to adjust for crown, road imperfections, and the inherent characteristics of larger tires which drift a bit. When you move your steering wheel to stay in your lane your vehicle continues to go in that direction whereas if it was looser it the wheel would push back with a bit of resistance as it wants to go straight. All this helps the vehicle track better and makes it easier for your to stay in lane. Since you have tighter steering you move the wheel to adjust and then you have to move it again to adjust and so forth and so forth.

Try this. When driving down the highway you should be able to let go of the wheel and for a few seconds the Jeep will stay perfectly straight and then start to slightly move left or right depending on road crown.

Hope the above makes sense. Hard to explain in words.

Also, since your steering box is so tight do you have any issues with the hydro assist locking up the steering when you’re above 55 and trying to take a turn like on an exit?

Makes sense. I've tested 3 different vehicles on the same exact roads so I'm comparing apples to apples. The other 2 vehicles do not require the extreme constant corrections. I have tried the test about letting go of the wheel. It drifts left or right after about 3 seconds. One time, on a 3 lane highway, there was enough traffic that I was in the far left outer lane, let go and after about 5 to 7 seconds, I was on the far right lane - going 60MPH. The tech who worked on it also confirmed the same problem still exists after checking everything, updating with the steering TSB and replacing the steering box. It is difficult, but not impossible to believe that a brand new steering box (-AD on the end of it) is too tight - still has the factory markings on it. When I asked about adjusting the steering box, they said they wouldn't adjust it because it would cause problems with the steering box - that it would then be "out of spec". No locking up when exiting above 55 - so far.

 

[Mordin Solus]

I watched the third video by @RDT300 showing a large amount of play when parked. So I tried it on my JL. My JL's wheels turn at the slightest movement of the wheel when parked. There is zero play.
So there seems to be a real difference between vehicles. Mine steers satisfactorily at all speeds. So there has to be a fix

No steering issues here and I had a friend with a JK confirm (she commented it felt better) but I thought I would try this little test. Same results as yours, and as you noted elsewhere capturing with video would be hard as it is a very subtle movement. If I were to move the steering wheel as much as that third video I would be all over the road.

Seems like this is one hell of an issue to root cause. Not all JL’s have the problem, multiple “fixes” for those that do, and none of them have fixed the problem for everyone.

 

[vavaroutsos]

@jeremyjeep, have you tried checking return to center with the steering stabilizer removed? Does it show any external signs of damage? If this doesn't help, I would check for bad/binding ball joints.

 

[jeremyjeep]

@jeremyjeep, have you tried checking return to center with the steering stabilizer removed? Does it show any external signs of damage? If this doesn't help, I would check for bad/binding ball joints.

I wouldn't know how to remove the steering stabilizer, but I can bring it into an auto repair shop and get them to help. By the way, is there an adjustment on the steering stabilizer?

 

[Richamby]

The steering stabilizer looks like a shock and basically is one. It just has the compression and rebound resistance set the same. Factory has no adjustment.

 

[Saejin]

Ok, did some testing today as my OCD is in overdrive about this. Im ok with the way mine drives. I can do 75 on the highway with one hand/finger, pass semis with no issues, stay in the lane, jeep drives straight when i let go of the wheel, and it returns ti center albeit a bit slower than my wifes honda and hella slower than my previous audi.

So, im seeing these post of users stating when parked and running any slight movement of the wheels moves the tires ever so slightly...hard to see and impossible to record. This is driving mu OCD because mine does not do this.

Mine is similar, but i have to move it about a 1/3 inch either direction before i can see the wheel move. I figured i would see what happens when i jack the front end up and then try since i thought the resistance of the tires on pavement could impact the movement of the tires.

So i jacked up the front end via the axle abd proceeded to try out my test. I got the same results as if the tires were on the ground. Took 1/3 inch either direction of steering wheel movement before the tires moved.

So the next thing i did was adjust the the steering box by 1/16 of an inch so it would not be noticeable by the dealer unless they are trolling this forum. The mark across the nut and allen screw is pretty broad so a slight adjust is hard to notice. 1/8 inch movement and yes you can see it. 1/4 inch and youll probably introduce more issues than you’re trying to fix.

I did this by loosening the nut first which also turns the allen screw since its locked to the nut with red locktite and then tightening it back down. By breaking the locktite free it allows you to get some additional movement when you crank it back down. I didnt even attempt to adjust the allen screw.
Quick tip here. If you dont have a heat gun allow your jeep to warm up or drive it around a bit and then do the adjustment. This warms up the steering box making it easier to break the nut loose.

I checked the play in the wheel and now it takes 1/4 inch steering input before i see movement in the tires. I didnt want to adjust too much for fear of stripping out the nut or causing other issues like super tight steering or lockup at 55mph+.

Havent taken it for a drive yet, but will later today and will report back.

I also checked each and every part of the steering linkage from the wheels, intermediate shaft, steering box, pitman arm, and control arms. Everythign was tight and the dead spot is in the steering box. When my son turned the wheel 1/3 inch i could see everythign move up to the steering box, but past the box is the pitman arm and it didnt move. I have videos I’ll post later.

 

[Saejin]

Video number 1: first half is moving the steering wheel 1/3 inch or less and second half is moving it 1/2 inch


Video number 2: duration of the video the steering wheel is moved no greater than 1/3 inch in either direction.

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