Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[Holymoly1963]

Update on my struggle...

Took it into the dealer for the third time this week. Called my corporate contact to call the dealer directly and tell them to take me on a test drive this time (last time they took it without me and denied there was a problem). My wife flew point this time because I had to work, good thing too because she doesn't take crap from no one. The service manager had it on the highway and started moving the steering wheel back and forth (too far, outside the dead spot area) and said he didn't see a problem. My wife told him he was lying and that he was noticing a problem. That caught him off guard, obviously, but the fact that he was moving the steering wheel too far back and forth says he either really didn't notice the problem or knew there was a problem and was intentionally over-steering to cover it up. Either way it turned out good. When exiting the highway he said he did notice a problem in a turn. Bottom line is she held firm, demanded a loaner while they held onto our Jeep to work with corporate to find a solution, and now we're waiting to hear back. We told them they should just get a new gear box but after what I've heard on this group that probably won't fix it. This is my report...

Hope you are more successful than me. If one person can breakthrough this FCA denial, we all win. I appreciate everyone working on this.

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[Jlrut]

UPDATE: I picked my 2 door up this afternoon and really can’t believe it. They’ve got to replace the steering box again. Why you Ask? Because they replaced the first one with an identical steering box and not the new updated one. I never spoke to the Technical Advisor that FCA sent so I don’t know all the details. Plus my service rep was out today. I’ll update as I have more info.

 

[Saejin]

I tried, it's really hard to capture. Mine moves immediately, though it's a slight movement. I'll compare to my other vehicles.

Ok, I’ll try to do the same. Mine does move slightly too, but I have to at least move the wheel 1/4 inch.

So when you start to move your wheel do you feel immediate resistance or is there a bit of play before the resistance pushes back.

 

[Holymoly1963]

UPDATE: I picked my 2 door up this afternoon and really can’t believe it. They’ve got to replace the steering box again. Why you Ask? Because they replaced the first one with an identical steering box and not the new updated one. I never spoke to the Technical Advisor that FCA sent so I don’t know all the details. Plus my service rep was out today. I’ll update as I have more info.

What's your secret to convincing them to replace your steering box? What is the name of the FCA tech pls? PM me if this is private.

 

[vavaroutsos]

I just picked up my 2-door after a week at the dealership. They used almost a quarter tank of gas on test drives (which they didn't replace), then told me they compared it to another JL and they were the same so it's normal. I didn't get to the dealership until after the service department was closed, so I couldn't speak to my service adviser. However, I did grab a couple of sales guys and had them compare my Jeep to four other JL on the lot. With the engine off (no power assist), I have them move the steering wheel back and forth until they felt resistance. The four Jeeps on the lot were tight with hardly any detectable play. Both sales guys agreed that mine had a lot of play compared to the others.

So is this just bad QA on the steering box lash adjustment? Is there a problem with the machining of some of the gears in some of the boxes? Was the lash intentionally being set loose to avoid binding? Is it ok to just adjust the lash to get rid of the dead spot?

Sounds like most people have a dead spot. However, jeremyjeep seems to have a problem even though he doesn't have a dead spot. Sounds like there's more than one issue here.

@jeremyjeep, does your steering wheel return to center at all if you let go of it? With proper air pressure in the tires, my return to center is a bit slow, but it does return. You do know that with stock suspension links the only alignment related adjustment is toe in. There is no way to adjust caster or camber.

 

[joeltron]

After driving a VW GTI for 9 years, I thought this was just a "Jeep thing" after I picked up my car on Wednesday and was driving home. I felt like I was a cartoon character driving, constantly having to move the wheel, never being confident in using only one hand to drive. I'm relieved and disappointed to hear that I'm not the only one having this issue, but it doesn't sound like anyone's having much luck in getting it fixed either.
On top of that, with only 188 miles on my car, my check engine light popped on!
Great first time experience with Jeep.

 

[jeremyjeep]

I just picked up my 2-door after a week at the dealership. They used almost a quarter tank of gas on test drives (which they didn't replace), then told me they compared it to another JL and they were the same so it's normal. I didn't get to the dealership until after the service department was closed, so I couldn't speak to my service adviser. However, I did grab a couple of sales guys and had them compare my Jeep to four other JL on the lot. With the engine off (no power assist), I have them move the steering wheel back and forth until they felt resistance. The four Jeeps on the lot were tight with hardly any detectable play. Both sales guys agreed that mine had a lot of play compared to the others.

So is this just bad QA on the steering box lash adjustment? Is there a problem with the machining of some of the gears in some of the boxes? Was the lash intentionally being set loose to avoid binding? Is it ok to just adjust the lash to get rid of the dead spot?

Sounds like most people have a dead spot. However, jeremyjeep seems to have a problem even though he doesn't have a dead spot. Sounds like there's more than one issue here.

@jeremyjeep, does your steering wheel return to center at all if you let go of it? With proper air pressure in the tires, my return to center is a bit slow, but it does return. You do know that with stock suspension links the only alignment related adjustment is toe in. There is no way to adjust caster or camber.

It does not return to center. When it starts to drift left or right, and if I don’t correct it, it will continuously turn in that same direction. In a large empty parking lot, it goes in a large circle if I don’t correct it. I don’t have to pull the steering wheel hard to correct it, but I do have to constantly correct it. The 4x4 shop mentioned they adjust caster by using some parts from a lift kit without actually lifting it. I did some additional online research and it looks like metal shims can be used as well. All tires are at 37, confirmed with the dash and with a hand held digital pressure gauge, just incase a tire pressure sensor was malfunctioning. Do you know if previous Wranglers don’t have a caster adjustment? Any other thoughts to what it could be based on these symptoms besides caster? They confirmed toe-in specs, did a full alignment, checked steering arm torque, ball joints, replaced the steering box with the newest version AD, swapped the front left and right tires with each other, steering TSB applied, etc. While standing outside of the vehicle with it running and the window down, I reached inside, turned the steering wheel and watched the tires instantly turn matching the movement exactly, so no dead spot. Also, turned off traction control, drives different but still requires constant steering wheel adjustments, put into 4hi, doesn’t require nearly as many steering wheel adjustments. Same happens hot or cold. Thanks for any brainstorming help.

 

[otisroy]

Does anyone live in a state where they do steering lash tests during inspections? I think this might rise in priority with FCA if the Wranglers start failing state inspections en masse.

 

[Richamby]

Jeremyjeeps steering box is already adjusted to tight. Loosing the adjustment slightly, will bring the dead spot back to “normal”. That would be the threaded allen screw.

 

[otisroy]

The crazy thing is that the service foreman noticed that I had to hold the wheel cocked more than a few degrees to the left to compensate for the preference to drift right( a design to supposedly to keep sleeping/incapacitated drivers from plowing into oncoming traffic).

I've been waiting to make any drive train mods in the hopes that a trip to the dealership would clear this up. No luck so I'm going to bolt the new wheels and tires on today. I'm still waiting for my RK lift to come in and I may hold off a few weeks to see if there's a quick software fix. Not likely, but you never know. I suspect it'll be close to a year before we see a TSB/recall. I'd like to start enjoying the mods on some trails.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Jeremyjeeps steering box is already adjusted to tight. Loosing the adjustment slightly, will bring the dead spot back to “normal”. That would be the threaded allen screw.

It is a brand new steering box and is at factory adjustments. But I guess it could be too tight from the factory.

 

[parkertl]

My update:
Im taking it back to Landmark Jeep etc in Atlanta one more time on 9/5, just so they can do another formal report to send up to FCA.
My Jeep Wave rep called me on Thursday to tell me that they spoke to someone in Quality at 'The Tower' in Detroit about my issue and the several others she has personally been dealing with. We can only hope this means that enough noise has been made to get it up to Corporate.

If you have not done so already, call 844-533-7928 and get a case opened. My rep has been very empathetic and really has been trying to help. The more of these cases they get open with anecdotal stories and dealer documentation the faster they will roll a Recall or whatever other kind of fix.

The worst thing we can do is get tired and frustrated and just give up; we arent making this stuff up, we WANT to love this vehicle, something about ours just has a significant design flaw. Keep pressing and get your other jeep mates to do the same, its making a difference.

 

[vavaroutsos]

It does not return to center. When it starts to drift left or right, and if I don’t correct it, it will continuously turn in that same direction. In a large empty parking lot, it goes in a large circle if I don’t correct it. I don’t have to pull the steering wheel hard to correct it, but I do have to constantly correct it. The 4x4 shop mentioned they adjust caster by using some parts from a lift kit without actually lifting it. I did some additional online research and it looks like metal shims can be used as well. All tires are at 37, confirmed with the dash and with a hand held digital pressure gauge, just incase a tire pressure sensor was malfunctioning. Do you know if previous Wranglers don’t have a caster adjustment? Any other thoughts to what it could be based on these symptoms besides caster? They confirmed toe-in specs, did a full alignment, checked steering arm torque, ball joints, replaced the steering box with the newest version AD, swapped the front left and right tires with each other, steering TSB applied, etc. While standing outside of the vehicle with it running and the window down, I reached inside, turned the steering wheel and watched the tires instantly turn matching the movement exactly, so no dead spot. Also, turned off traction control, drives different but still requires constant steering wheel adjustments, put into 4hi, doesn’t require nearly as many steering wheel adjustments. Same happens hot or cold. Thanks for any brainstorming help.

@jeremyjeep, the parts normally used from a lift kit to adjust caster are adjustable lower control arms. Most lift kits more than a couple of inches come with adjustable lower arms so caster can be set back to spec. I'm not aware of how shims could be used to adjust caster. Caster is set by adjusting the control arm lengths to rotate the axle forwards/backwards. The stock control arms are not adjustable, so you can't adjust caster with them. Only the stock tie rod and drag link are adjustable. So you can adjust toe in and center the steering wheel.

You can pick up a Wixey digital angle gauge for about $30 if you want to check your caster. Get the Jeep on level ground, then crawl underneath and put the gauge on the flat spot on the bottom of the inner "C" at the end of the axle.

Try and detect any free play in your steering wheel with the engine off (no power assist). Move the wheel back and forth until you feel resistance. If you can't detect at least a very small amount of free play, then maybe @Richamby is correct that your steering box doesn't have enough lash. If it's set too tight, it won't return to center properly.

 

[Jlrut]

What's your secret to convincing them to replace your steering box? What is the name of the FCA tech pls? PM me if this is private.

I don’t know what made them replace it. I didn’t ask them to...just told them the problem. My contact at JeepCares instructed me to have the contact the Technical Advisor. I don’t know his name but will try to find it.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Jeremyjeeps steering box is already adjusted to tight. Loosing the adjustment slightly, will bring the dead spot back to “normal”. That would be the threaded allen screw.

If it is too tight, why would it require constant steering wheel turn to keep it in lane? If it is loosened, wouldn't it need more constant steering wheel turns than before? I'm trying to figure out the logic so I can have a better understanding. I'd try just about anything if it has a chance of fixing this, no matter how counterintuitive it sounds,

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