Suspension upgrade with minimal to no lift ?

[Zandcwhite]

Ranch 9000 offers shocks for vehicles from 0 to 3.5" lifts. The OP said he does light trails nothing drastic which make Rancho's a viable option. If he was going on sand dunes all out then I would have recommended a shock with a reservoir. My Rancho's works for me as I don't do anything other than light trails.

So long as you're OK with having very little articulation due to a very short travel shock, you do you. Just know that even the stock Rubicon shocks have 2.5" more travel and in my opinion even they are too short. With the ranchos I'd be willing to bet even the Broncos IFS will flex better.

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[J.Ferreira]

I also have a 2-door Sport, but with 255 tires on stock Willy's rims and I am also considering the same sort of suspension upgrade. After talking with several reputable shops in my area, they all recommended the Clayton 1" lift. I'd like to think that I'll wait until my factory warranty is up, but we'll see how long I can resist the temptation! Hope you find what you're looking for and best of luck!

Bonus if you go with Rubi Takeoffs, they're OEM parts

 

[Zandcwhite]

Bonus if you go with Rubi Takeoffs, they're OEM parts

OEM parts when it comes to shocks have literally never been a bonus. Aside from the raptor or the trx every oem shock ever is a downgrade from even a middle of the road aftermarket shock. It still trips me out how big of an upgrade over the stock shocks a basic $150 fox 2.0 is considering we pay $50k plus for these vehicles. Shocks are one place they all cheap out in my opinion.

 

[J.Ferreira]

OEM parts when it comes to shocks have literally never been a bonus. Aside from the raptor or the trx every oem shock ever is a downgrade from even a middle of the road aftermarket shock. It still trips me out how big of an upgrade over the stock shocks a basic $150 fox 2.0 is considering we pay $50k plus for these vehicles. Shocks are one place they all cheap out in my opinion.

It’s a bonus when the guy I replied to is trying to stay within his, “don’t wanna change too much cause warranty” mindset.

 

[Zandcwhite]

It’s a bonus when the guy I replied to is trying to stay within his, “don’t wanna change too much cause warranty” mindset.

The only effect on the warranty of changing shocks is that your shocks won't be covered by warranty. I'm pretty sure even the bumbling idiots in the service department would notice the Rubicon shocks on your sport if you were trying to warranty them too? Assuming the guy who posted has a Willys due to his stock willys wheels, he already has Rubicon shocks anyway...

 

[STW]

OEM parts when it comes to shocks have literally never been a bonus. Aside from the raptor or the trx every oem shock ever is a downgrade from even a middle of the road aftermarket shock. It still trips me out how big of an upgrade over the stock shocks a basic $150 fox 2.0 is considering we pay $50k plus for these vehicles. Shocks are one place they all cheap out in my opinion.

for the OP's "no lift but upgrade" question then, would he go with stock length Fox 2.0 for 0-1.5" lift or the Fox 2.0 made for 2"-3"?
If the OP does have the Willys with Rubicon springs/shocks then is the 0-1.5" enough extension since the Rubicon springs give about 1.5" lift? Or would the 2"-3" limit extension for JL with Rubicon springs?

 

[Zandcwhite]

The only effect on the warranty of changing shocks is that your shocks won't be covered by warranty. I'm pretty sure even the bumbling idiots in the service department would notice the Rubicon shocks on your sport if you were trying to warranty them too?

In order to safely run the 2-3" lift version, you need to add a 1/2" Bump stop spacer. In order to maximize droop, even if I were planning to run stock height I'd add the bump stop. You only gain .5" of droop between those 2 shocks specifically.

 

[AccuTunedJL]

Reservoir shocks are for suspensions that get severely put through the paces, be it high speed or extreme articulation with heavy wheel/tire combos. On a stock or nearly stock suspension with factory size tires there is no benefit, other than looks.

There are a few benefits to a remote reservoir shock that don't require you put the suspension through its paces. Remote reservoir shocks operate at lower pressures, which keep the seals happy and prolong the lifespan. Most remote reservoir shocks can also be serviced/rebuilt. Majority of the affordable IFP/Emulsion/gas shocks are not and are just throw away shocks when they wear out. Higher end brands like Fox/King can also be custom valved for an even better ride. So in short, remote reservoir shocks are not just for looks.

Making the assumption that you are not doing high-speed desert runs... and you primarily want a softer, more comfortable ride offroad....the things that would help the most are:

4 - Springs can help with ride harshness that remail after airing down, but will be a small factor compared to what the tires can do. Variable rate springs can help here.

5 - Shocks can do very little to help. Spending money on bypass shocks is a waste (unless you will run high speed whoops baja style).

Terrain to Optimize for (e.g. road, rocks, unpaved roads) -> tire selection (size, pressure) -> lift needed to clear tire (e.g. geometry, arms/links) -> spring (height, rate, type) -> shocks to control ride.

Springs are for lift and carrying the weight of the Jeep, shocks keep everything under control. Ride quality you feel is mostly from the shocks, not the springs. Shocks can be tuned to ride better on specific terrain, wash board road, big whoops, street, towing etc.

Better shocks will definitely help ride quality on and off-road. I don't think anyone has brought up bypass shocks for the OP

 

[The Last Cowboy]

There are a few benefits to a remote reservoir shock that don't require you put the suspension through its paces. Remote reservoir shocks operate at lower pressures, which keep the seals happy and prolong the lifespan. Most remote reservoir shocks can also be serviced/rebuilt. Majority of the affordable IFP/Emulsion/gas shocks are not and are just throw away shocks when they wear out. Higher end brands like Fox/King can also be custom valved for an even better ride. So in short, remote reservoir shocks are not just for looks.

I get that, but on a mostly stock suspension the average driver will get none of those benefits. Also, the daily driver, weekend o dirt road driver, will not be able to deal with the downtime of sending high end shocks in for a rebuild. Most people don't turn their own wrenches and will likely trade in the Jeep before a rebuild is needed. Off the shelf shocks can be swapped in an hour or two if they are worn to the point of replacement.

For the owner who is going to seriously use their Jeep, can do some work themselves and can appreciate high quality stuff, I absolutely agree with you. Also, I belive that you have to go with a lift, even if just a slight one, to fully appreciate the benefits of long travel adjustable shocks. The average drivers here would never know the difference or care.

 

[gato]

Springs are for lift and carrying the weight of the Jeep, shocks keep everything under control. Ride quality you feel is mostly from the shocks, not the springs. Shocks can be tuned to ride better on specific terrain, wash board road, big whoops, street, towing etc.

I'm sorry but this is really not correct. Spring rates are a primary determinant of ride characteristics quality. Shocks simply help fine tune the movement of the springs.

Spring type and rate needs to be selected to a goal BEFORE you select/tune shocks to it.

 

[AccuTunedJL]

I'm sorry but this is really not correct. Spring rates are a primary determinant of ride characteristics quality. Shocks simply help fine tune the movement of the springs.

Spring type and rate needs to be selected to a goal BEFORE you select/tune shocks to it.

Proper spring rates are needed for X weight of vehicle. If the rates are off, I agree the ride characteristics will suffer. You can be over/under sprung which can lead to too a bad ride, but your shocks are providing most of that comfort you feel. Example: take the same vehicle/springs and swap on cheap shocks vs high end tuned shocks, you will notice a big change.

100% agree, spring rates need to be correct first, then shock type/tuning to go along with it. We do this all day every day.

 

[Cyclrder]

Simple enough.. MetalCloak adjustable lower front control arms and Fox performance series 2.5 adjustable reservoir shocks...(about $3K for the shocks alone).

the shocks will give you the ability to tune your ride to your preference for HWY driving, loaded carrying situations, and "wheeling". I've had King shocks on my previous JK.. they are nice too but I like the Fox setup now.
You will be able to take out that "hobby horse" ride that you can get when going over slightly bumpy roads. It is a game changer far beyond simply updating the OEM shocks. It will transform the car.

 

[Cyclrder]

sorry.. I didn't read all of the previous threads... people are talking about spring rates and so on... I am limited to the parking garage as to what I can do as far as a lift. On my previous JK, I had a full metalcloak 2"lift (that was for a 2 door car) Since my car was a JKU, the slightly softer progressive springs for the rear on that lift did not bring it up to high..... It rode fabulously. But.. I don't think you need any of that. We daily drive the Jeep in NYC, VT. and the beaches of Long Island. Trust me, all you need are the FOX shocks (make sure they are for the zero to smallest lift). The car really has been transformed. My other cars are an AMG E63 wagon and a Turbo Porsche so I like a sporty drive but comfortable. That's why the Jeep is the daily as it fits the bill.

 

[kaptkaos]

Hello everyone, I’m a little new so forgive me if this has already been discussed but I wasn’t quite seeing it.

what is a great suspension upgrade that doesn’t necessarily give me a lift? My little Jeep is my DD but I’d like a nicer suspension without a massive lift and a huge loss of mpg.
I’ve seen posts where folks ask similar while trying to keep it cheap and the consensus is rubi takeoffs. I’m not really interested in Rubi take offs as I would like to do better than that. But all the stuff I’m seeing is for 2.5 lifts and above. What am I missing? Thanks

Rubi takeoffs are great, worked fantastic for me, and the Mopar LCA's fixed all the bad steering habits. Super happy, handles better than stock and got almost 2" lift. 35's fit with tons to spare.

 

[Holokai2195]

The number two thing you can do is to maximize the amount of free articulation in your front suspension. So equip with some type of sway-bar disconnects. You can disconnect these when you're airing down.

@Holokai2195 You can get a long way to what you want without spending much money.

The number one thing you can do to improve both ride and traction off-road is air down your tires. Much bigger difference than any shock/spring upgrade. So equip with some type of air down (e.g. trailhead tire deflators) and a compressor to return to street pressure at the end of the day.

Aired down tires are more likely to suffer damage or flats, so make sure you're running a good tough off-road tire, and carrying a spare, in the largest size that makes sense for you. It sounds like you're already doing that now.

The number two thing you can do is to maximize the amount of free articulation in your front suspension. So equip with some type of sway-bar disconnects. You can disconnect these when you're airing down.

My suggestion would be to take on these things, then spend the coming summer getting out onto the roads and trails you like to drive, maybe explore some new ones, and then find out what it is you like, and what, if anything, about how your Jeep is performing is holding you back. That'll give you perspective on what (if anything) to take on next. All modifications have cascading series of consequences: not least of which is to your wallet... but also increased chance of breaking things, larger tires want different gears, reduced gas mileage, harder to get in and out of the jeep, more "tire poke" leads to gunk on the side of the jeep that inevitably gets on you as you climb in and out, etc...

Also, folks have said that your description is vague. But they haven't really told you how to make it better. When you experience "rough ride" - there are two separate ways this is experienced:

1. When the jeep is functioning normally, and is going over road and highway bumps an holes. These bumps and holes are felt in the cab. Here, a softer spring and less damping shock combination will lead to a perception of a "better" ride.

But, there's also:

2. When the jeep hits a large obstacle, the spring is compressed to its limit through the shock, and the suspension "bottoms out" and hits the "bump stop." This is experienced as a sudden violent jolt while travelling. And unlike the above, this is addressed by adding a stiffer and/or longer spring, and shocks with more compression resistance. To prevent bottom-out from happening. Which, obviously, is exactly the OPPOSITE of what is done for "rough ride" in 1. above.

So in order to really meaningfully improve the ride and performance you're experiencing, you need to be able to feel and describe the type of problem you're encountering.

Now, obviously, suspension folks have spent thousands if not millions of hours of engineering time trying to address these two separate types of issues. Multi-rate springs, reservoir shocks, long suspension arms, etc.... But pretty much the very first thing they inevitably do is to try and increase the total range of motion of the suspension, top-to-bottom. And this is done with longer springs, and longer shocks. And this is experienced and described colloquially, as a "lift."

So, don't go there yet. Try the simple things I mentioned above, and get some more jeeping in. Then, if you decide you want a lift, you'll be able to better "articulate" (haha) the type of performance improvement you're looking for.

I really appreciate the breakdown for all of that. I'm not entirely "new" to the off-world world. My previous vehicle was a Rubicon gladiator that I adored. I ended up selling it and using the equity to get a more "family" oriented vehicle since we recently added a member to the family. I couldn't afford another Rubicon so I wound up buying a 2 door sport that I actually got for 5k under msrp. I only used the lockers on the Rubi a couple times during my offroad adventures so I wasn't too broken up about not having them though I do feel like I want to compensate a little in the way of the overall suspension as I also kept my Rubi pretty stock. So what I was wanting to do was get a suspension that exceeded the Rubi while also keeping a stock look. I think I will take your advice though and wheel a bit in the sport to get a feel for what I really need. There were some very helpful suspensions ideas here that i didnt know about. So that is all super helpful.

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