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JLsport2019

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Hey everyone, I'm new, but joined just to chime in and try and help a bit. My husband and I own and run a car audio shop and we both own Jeeps and do a ton of full system stereo upgrades in them. We've already done a couple systems in the JLU style and just picked up one for ourselves in December so I just wrote a real in depth blog post about the audio upgrade options. I'll try and condense it here with the tips we've learned so far and what's currently on the market for parts.

  • 4" Components - not a lot on the market, but Morel Hybrid 402 and Virtus 402 fit perfectly and sound fantastic, highly recommend.
  • Audison AP4 and AP1 tweeter also an option (but Morel better quality for the money)
  • We have done the 6.5" modification too - pretty tedious, but do-able (we only did it for the fronts since more options available for 4" coaxial)
  • Premium Alpine models can use easy PAC Audio pre-amp adapter to get a 5 volt front, rear and sub RCA pre-out from stock head unit for upgrading full system and bypassing OEM amp (AP4-CH41)
  • Non premium models can use Metra AX-DSP and AX-DSP-CH5 harness to easily add a 5 channel amp to stock system, includes app with 31 band EQ.
  • JL Audio has stealth box available for either passenger or driver side 10" TW1, same sub they offered for previous style.
  • They also have a handy under seat amp rack and fancy fuse holder (expensive, but nice)
  • We use the Alpine 5-channel PDXV9 for most of our Wrangler installs, we each have one in our car - tons output, compact and great sound (100 watts x 4 plus 500 x 1)
  • Alpine PSS23WRA total waste of money. I'm an Alpine dealer. The PWE-S8, Type R tweeters and KTP-445U amp retail on their own for $540. So you're paying $760 for easy plug and play connectors and brackets. Better off putting that money towards better equipment or paying a pro to do it if cutting/splicing, making tweeter bracket adapters too cumbersome.
  • Currently no dash kit, but iDatalink Maestro RR and CH3 harness compatible - doesn't retain climate display or camera yet.
  • Very shallow depth in dash and vents in way, I think Pioneer's DMH-C2550NEX and DMH-C5500NEX will be good head unit options because the screen is separate from the guts of the radio specifically for cars like these and it's Maestro compatible
I hope that helps someone out there. Cheers!

Alpine 5-channel PDXV9, i like this amp per the reviews i read on it.
My question is, is there a 4 channel or a 6 channel version of this Alpine amp?
My Subwoofer is a JL Audio 10" self-powered amp is built-in (400 RMS).

I have JL Audio C2 speakers (6 total).

2x- 3.5" in the Dash.
2x- 4" in the Knee area and,
2x- 6.5" in the SoundBar.

Currently using Alpine Power Pack445u.

I need either a 4channel or a 6channel AMP to power these.
What do you recommend, I prefer the DSP because someone mentioned that the 7"
factory radio puts out really noisy garbabe factory amp distortion.....

I'm using the factory 7" radio on my 2019 JL Sport 2-door.

I also use that RTA App on my Android Phone. With the Volume at "21"..this is the RTA readings I got. I have no clue what this means. Any good?

Screenshot_2019-05-04-19-54-23.png


Screenshot_2019-05-04-19-51-37.png
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jeeplaw

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The upgraded alpine is what I have. It's actually pretty decent for a factory system. Most people who get it, who have never heard a Sundown 12" hit in a sealed box with 600 watts going to it, with HAT's Legatia L3SE, L4SE, and L6SEs for a sound stage (minus a tweeter) will be more than happy with it. However, I'm trying to approach my build with an economic sense as well as best sounding with top on and off. Typically I've run a strong enough midbass driver upfront to take care of the bass imaging and just have the 25-80hz range covered by the woofer in the rear.

The 4"s in the kickpanels are going to be my challenge I think. I don't think they can give enough of a response to fill the sound stage up front with good bass if that makes sense. After riding around with my jeep all weekend (i just got it Thursday), I've come to realize that the soundbar is just filler. If I dremel out the openings up top to fit a 6.5 or a 6x9, I'm still not sure if the sound is going to make a good imaging impact when the fronts are already loaded with producing the stage sound. I thought maybe the soundbar could provide the oomph of a good 200-800 midbass response.

Could be wrong lol

I'm just now starting to plan my build. I've got a Kicker IQ1000.5 that I ran in my CTS-V that I'm going to repurpose. Loved the fact that has a DSP built into it. I just need to pick my drivers now
 

Bskylerj

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Hey everyone, I'm new, but joined just to chime in and try and help a bit. My husband and I own and run a car audio shop and we both own Jeeps and do a ton of full system stereo upgrades in them. We've already done a couple systems in the JLU style and just picked up one for ourselves in December so I just wrote a real in depth blog post about the audio upgrade options. I'll try and condense it here with the tips we've learned so far and what's currently on the market for parts.

  • 4" Components - not a lot on the market, but Morel Hybrid 402 and Virtus 402 fit perfectly and sound fantastic, highly recommend.
  • Audison AP4 and AP1 tweeter also an option (but Morel better quality for the money)
  • We have done the 6.5" modification too - pretty tedious, but do-able (we only did it for the fronts since more options available for 4" coaxial)
  • Premium Alpine models can use easy PAC Audio pre-amp adapter to get a 5 volt front, rear and sub RCA pre-out from stock head unit for upgrading full system and bypassing OEM amp (AP4-CH41)
  • Non premium models can use Metra AX-DSP and AX-DSP-CH5 harness to easily add a 5 channel amp to stock system, includes app with 31 band EQ.
  • JL Audio has stealth box available for either passenger or driver side 10" TW1, same sub they offered for previous style.
  • They also have a handy under seat amp rack and fancy fuse holder (expensive, but nice)
  • We use the Alpine 5-channel PDXV9 for most of our Wrangler installs, we each have one in our car - tons output, compact and great sound (100 watts x 4 plus 500 x 1)
  • Alpine PSS23WRA total waste of money. I'm an Alpine dealer. The PWE-S8, Type R tweeters and KTP-445U amp retail on their own for $540. So you're paying $760 for easy plug and play connectors and brackets. Better off putting that money towards better equipment or paying a pro to do it if cutting/splicing, making tweeter bracket adapters too cumbersome.
  • Currently no dash kit, but iDatalink Maestro RR and CH3 harness compatible - doesn't retain climate display or camera yet.
  • Very shallow depth in dash and vents in way, I think Pioneer's DMH-C2550NEX and DMH-C5500NEX will be good head unit options because the screen is separate from the guts of the radio specifically for cars like these and it's Maestro compatible
I hope that helps someone out there. Cheers!
How does the stealth box sound? I’m thinking of doing both sides plus all new speakers and the JL Audio 900/5 HD amp. I’d really like good base when the top is off
 

carstereochick

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Alpine 5-channel PDXV9, i like this amp per the reviews i read on it.
My question is, is there a 4 channel or a 6 channel version of this Alpine amp?
My Subwoofer is a JL Audio 10" self-powered amp is built-in (400 RMS).

I have JL Audio C2 speakers (6 total).

2x- 3.5" in the Dash.
2x- 4" in the Knee area and,
2x- 6.5" in the SoundBar.

Currently using Alpine Power Pack445u.

I need either a 4channel or a 6channel AMP to power these.
What do you recommend, I prefer the DSP because someone mentioned that the 7"
factory radio puts out really noisy garbabe factory amp distortion.....

I'm using the factory 7" radio on my 2019 JL Sport 2-door.

I also use that RTA App on my Android Phone. With the Volume at "21"..this is the RTA readings I got. I have no clue what this means. Any good?

Screenshot_2019-05-04-19-54-23.png


Screenshot_2019-05-04-19-51-37.png
Hey there - were you playing pink noise or an audio track when using the RTA? They used to make a 4-channel version the PDXF4 (100 watts x 4) and the PDXF6 (150 x 4), but they have been replaced by the X series amps which have decent power, but do not have the same signal to noise ratio or total harmonic distortion. On specs alone the PDX series had better sound quality, not sure why they changed it up.

If it were my vehicle, I would do a combination. The JL Audio Fix-86 and their 6 channel amp with their Twk processor built in, the VX600/4i and the DRC-205 control knob which will act as your master volume level control (can still use stock controls too), bass knob and preset selector. The reason I recommend the Fix-86 in addition to the Vxi amp is the Fix-86 will do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. It will analyze the stock audio signal and flatten it out and correct it so you have a nice clean pre-amp to work with. From there you can use the Vxi amp to do your fine tuning and time alignment controls. It's much easier to fine tune an EQ when you're working with a clean signal. If you're not, you can spend hours trying to accomplish what the Fix-86 can do with the press of a button. That amp also allows you to tie in the amp you already have for your sub. And there is an optional bluetooth interface so rather than using a lap top you can use an app. Just did this amp in a VW GTI last week, it's awesome. I have the 5 channel version we plan on putting in my 2013 135i m sport eventually.
 

carstereochick

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How does the stealth box sound? I’m thinking of doing both sides plus all new speakers and the JL Audio 900/5 HD amp. I’d really like good base when the top is off
Two is always better than one. This is the same exact sub they've been using for the JK wranglers and we've done a bunch of full audio upgrades with the previous style. I haven't had the chance to install the new style yet, but based on location, size and woofer type, should be same result as previous body style version.

In any Wrangler, more power the better. We are typically doing something like the 900/5, want to be around 100 watts RMS per channel or more, plus 500 watts or more to the sub. This way you can really hear it, and crank it with the top down and still enjoy it.

In the last two JL upgrades we did we did custom boxes because no stealth box was available yet. The first one we did two JL 10" TW3's and in our own Wrangler we have a JL 12 W6 in a large down firing box (it's just the two of us, we had that in our two door no back seat before so we feel like we are living in luxury with all the room in our new 4 door and don't mind it taking up room). If it were my vehicle, I'd do two. You can always turn the bass down.

Depending on what stock head unit you have, you're going to want to do some type of DSP processor pre-amp adapter. If you have the stock basic audio system, I would recommend using the JL Audio Fix-86 and VX1000/5i this way you get the DSP built into the amp. If you have the Alpine system, instead of the Fix-86, use the Pac Audio AP4-CH41 pre-amp adapter. If you have the Alpine stock amp, you can even go optical out with a toslink adapter from Pac Audio into the Vxi amp. My husband and I were just discussing this. I had that amp set aside for my BMW 135i, but we may want to put it in his car using the toslink adapter for even cleaner sound.

Technically, Metra has a DSP adapter that will give you front, rear and sub for the base model's, but the JL Audio Fix-86 combined with either Twk-88 or Vxi series amp is so much better quality. We've installed both, but if you can swing the cost difference, the JL products are really best on the market that we've tried in terms of DSP processors.
 

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Bskylerj

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Two is always better than one. This is the same exact sub they've been using for the JK wranglers and we've done a bunch of full audio upgrades with the previous style. I haven't had the chance to install the new style yet, but based on location, size and woofer type, should be same result as previous body style version.

In any Wrangler, more power the better. We are typically doing something like the 900/5, want to be around 100 watts RMS per channel or more, plus 500 watts or more to the sub. This way you can really hear it, and crank it with the top down and still enjoy it.

In the last two JL upgrades we did we did custom boxes because no stealth box was available yet. The first one we did two JL 10" TW3's and in our own Wrangler we have a JL 12 W6 in a large down firing box (it's just the two of us, we had that in our two door no back seat before so we feel like we are living in luxury with all the room in our new 4 door and don't mind it taking up room). If it were my vehicle, I'd do two. You can always turn the bass down.

Depending on what stock head unit you have, you're going to want to do some type of DSP processor pre-amp adapter. If you have the stock basic audio system, I would recommend using the JL Audio Fix-86 and VX1000/5i this way you get the DSP built into the amp. If you have the Alpine system, instead of the Fix-86, use the Pac Audio AP4-CH41 pre-amp adapter. If you have the Alpine stock amp, you can even go optical out with a toslink adapter from Pac Audio into the Vxi amp. My husband and I were just discussing this. I had that amp set aside for my BMW 135i, but we may want to put it in his car using the toslink adapter for even cleaner sound.

Technically, Metra has a DSP adapter that will give you front, rear and sub for the base model's, but the JL Audio Fix-86 combined with either Twk-88 or Vxi series amp is so much better quality. We've installed both, but if you can swing the cost difference, the JL products are really best on the market that we've tried in terms of DSP processors.

Thank you. Do you have pics of the 2 10W3’s installed? I’ll do the VX1000/5. And upgrade my speakers.

I have the standard stereo with the touch screen apple car play.

I appreciate the advice?
Did the previous stealth box sound good? I never heard one
 

carstereochick

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The upgraded alpine is what I have. It's actually pretty decent for a factory system. Most people who get it, who have never heard a Sundown 12" hit in a sealed box with 600 watts going to it, with HAT's Legatia L3SE, L4SE, and L6SEs for a sound stage (minus a tweeter) will be more than happy with it. However, I'm trying to approach my build with an economic sense as well as best sounding with top on and off. Typically I've run a strong enough midbass driver upfront to take care of the bass imaging and just have the 25-80hz range covered by the woofer in the rear.

The 4"s in the kickpanels are going to be my challenge I think. I don't think they can give enough of a response to fill the sound stage up front with good bass if that makes sense. After riding around with my jeep all weekend (i just got it Thursday), I've come to realize that the soundbar is just filler. If I dremel out the openings up top to fit a 6.5 or a 6x9, I'm still not sure if the sound is going to make a good imaging impact when the fronts are already loaded with producing the stage sound. I thought maybe the soundbar could provide the oomph of a good 200-800 midbass response.

Could be wrong lol

I'm just now starting to plan my build. I've got a Kicker IQ1000.5 that I ran in my CTS-V that I'm going to repurpose. Loved the fact that has a DSP built into it. I just need to pick my drivers now
Wait - so what are you using to tie in the aftermarket amps/speakers to the stock system? If you don't already have it, I HIGHLY recommend the Pac Audio AP4-CH41. It will allow you to get a completely unadulterated flat pre-amp signal from the stock head unit BEFORE the Alpine stock amp. Like an aftermarket head unit - Front, Rear and Subwoofer pre-out 5 volt. That combined with a DSP like the JL Audio Twk-88 will give you the control you need to get mid bass. Those 4" can cut it.

If you are still using the stock amp in line and just using a DSP after the stock amp, or just a basic line output converter, you are fighting against factory crossover settings and factory time alignment in the stock Alpine amp. Sometimes phase is thrown off by these factory equalization settings (internal). Have you tried turning off the rears and reversing the phase to see if it makes an impact with the front speakers?

Those are quality components you have, I'm sure once you have a clean pre-amp signal going to them with the control of the Twk-88 DSP, you'll get the mid bass you're looking for. If budget is a concern, you could also consider the iDatalink DSR1 which is more economical and similar concept. We have used this before and it's a nice interface (especially when you consider the price point), but if we had a choice, we like the JL Audio one better.

EDIT - just saw the last line of your post - you already have a DSP so I think best bet is the Pac Audio AP4-CH41 with your amp. Once properly set up, you should be really happy with end result. We usually tune by ear as well as using an Audio Control RTA and pink noise.
 

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Thank you. Do you have pics of the 2 10W3’s installed? I’ll do the VX1000/5. And upgrade my speakers.

I have the standard stereo with the touch screen apple car play.

I appreciate the advice?
Did the previous stealth box sound good? I never heard one
I highly recommend the Fix-86 along with that. You can call JL Audio tech support and they can explain in further detail. I had to do that recently to figure out if it was really necessary in the VW GTI system we did last week.

There are certain things the Fix-86 can do that the Twk-88/Vxi amps can't do. I forget off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with reversing factory time alignment. You can eq with with the Twk-88/Vxi amps, but you can't really "de-equalize" the factory set up, that's really what the Fix-86 does. Gives you a flat, clean signal to start with and that is key to any good audio system. Ideally, you want to use the EQ in your DSP to fine tune.

Yes, the 10 TW1 does a great job in the Wrangler's in the JL Audio stealth boxes. I haven't had one customer disappointed or one customer blow theirs up (although a lot of that has to do with tuning and set up on the amp so no distortion). The box shown with the two 10" TW3 is just a basic down firing enclosure. To keep costs reasonable, the customer chose this type of enclosure versus two custom fiberglass enclosures in the rear quarter panels.

If memory serves me correctly, we used a PDXV9 to power the interior speakers and stock sub (just in case he needed to remove his custom enclosure, he could still have some bass) and a PDXM12 to power the two JL Audio 10" TW3. The TW3 needs slightly more cubic air space than the TW1, but I do think it sounds more like a traditional sized woofer, sounds more like a regular W3. It's like the slimmed down version.

IMG_1604.JPG


IMG_1605.JPG
 

Bskylerj

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Yes, the 10 TW1 does a great job in the Wrangler's in the JL Audio stealth boxes. I haven't had one customer disappointed or one customer blow theirs up (although a lot of that has to do with tuning and set up on the amp so no distortion). The box shown with the two 10" TW3 is just a basic down firing enclosure. To keep costs reasonable, the customer chose this type of enclosure versus two custom fiberglass enclosures in the rear quarter panels.

If memory serves me correctly, we used a PDXV9 to power the interior speakers and stock sub (just in case he needed to remove his custom enclosure, he could still have some bass) and a PDXM12 to power the two JL Audio 10" TW3. The TW3 needs slightly more cubic air space than the TW1, but I do think it sounds more like a traditional sized woofer, sounds more like a regular W3. It's like the slimmed down version.

IMG_1604.JPG


IMG_1605.JPG
That looks great. I would’ve thought the box would’ve been bigger. I could get away with losing that much room. I do like the TW3’s. I had 2 12” TW3’s in my BMW 5 series. I’m kind of leaning this direction now I’m going to tens in the TW3. Thank you very much
 

Bskylerj

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Has anyone tried just amplifying the factory front speakers to see how they do?
 

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Hey everyone, I'm new, but joined just to chime in and try and help a bit. My husband and I own and run a car audio shop and we both own Jeeps and do a ton of full system stereo upgrades in them. Cheers!
Thanks for being here and being willing to share your expertise!

I have the JL 2 door with the non-premium 7" screen. So far I've replaced the four 3.5" speakers with the Mopar upgraded speaker they put in the Dart a few years back, and added a 125w powered sub under the seats. I've also stuffed the overhead enclosures with fiberfill (which seems to make a noticeable improvements- could you explain WHY stuffing that overhead enclosure helps... mostly just seems to cut down on vibration).

Honestly, I'm "it's liveable" happy with the sound right now, but would like to either a.) find a good swap out for those 4" speakers (it seems the only EQ area I can't get happy with currently is the mid-range), OR b.) use the harness you mention to make adding a 4 channel amp easy. Would it be possible to give me the parts you'd suggest for either route? I tried to look up the Metra harness you mentioned in your first post, but all I could find was one for GM applications. If I could just add a harness to make bypassing the factory amp easily possible, that would be tremendous!

Thanks again,
Pete
 

carstereochick

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Thanks for being here and being willing to share your expertise!

I have the JL 2 door with the non-premium 7" screen. So far I've replaced the four 3.5" speakers with the Mopar upgraded speaker they put in the Dart a few years back, and added a 125w powered sub under the seats. I've also stuffed the overhead enclosures with fiberfill (which seems to make a noticeable improvements- could you explain WHY stuffing that overhead enclosure helps... mostly just seems to cut down on vibration).

Honestly, I'm "it's liveable" happy with the sound right now, but would like to either a.) find a good swap out for those 4" speakers (it seems the only EQ area I can't get happy with currently is the mid-range), OR b.) use the harness you mention to make adding a 4 channel amp easy. Would it be possible to give me the parts you'd suggest for either route? I tried to look up the Metra harness you mentioned in your first post, but all I could find was one for GM applications. If I could just add a harness to make bypassing the factory amp easily possible, that would be tremendous!

Thanks again,
Pete
Hey Pete - if you have the stock non-premium set up, the amp should be built into the head unit so you'd want to go the DSP route and attach it to the speaker level output from the factory radio. Probably the easiest way to add on a 4-channel amp and DSP is the Metra AX-DSP. I think it's not listed yet for 2019, Metra probably haven't tested/verified it yet. You can always call them and ask. Sometimes they just don't update their website right away.

You can always still use in universal mode (setting in the app to control DSP), but the harness should be the same as 2018 the AX-DSP-CH5. The idea with that T-harness is the Metra DSP goes in line in between your head unit and your aftermarket amps and then that gives you a dedicated Front, Rear and Subwoofer pre-amp with 31 band EQ, crossover settings and more. You still have to run speaker wires to your aftermarket amp, but overall, that's a nice clean and easy way to add on an aftermarket amp with DSP and equalization controls.

If you don't mind the cut and splice route, I really like the JL Audio Fix-86. You can combine that with the DRC-205 control knob from JL Audio which can act as a master volume level control (can still use factory controls) and a bass knob controller. You can also combine that with their Twk-88 for fine tune DSP control, time alignment and crossover points.

Otherwise, I have used the Fix-86 and DRC-205 on their own for audio upgrades and basically what the Fix-86 does is take that factory speaker level output, analyze it and correct it. It's like a fancy high end line output converter. With the press of a button, it de-equalizes the factory stereo so you have a nice clean flat pre-amp signal to work with just like an aftermarket head unit would. It doesn't have the nice T harness like Metra, but it works really well and I'd say definitely better sound quality than the Metra DSP, but you'll notice the price of the product also reflects that.

Polyfil helps to slow down the airwaves and sort of tricks the speaker into thinking it's in a larger enclosure. Honestly if you use the Morel Hybrid 402 or Virtus 402 4" component speakers, they work perfectly in the factory ported enclosure, but I understand the cost may be prohibitive for some. They don't need polyfil if you go with Morel, just a little sound dampening like the Stinger Roadkill to line the interior of the enclosures works well. They are great speakers though, very smooth and detailed tweeter and they can handle plenty of power.

I've been researching other 4" components out there and thinking maybe something designed for BMW would also work because very similar. We use Morel and Audison for BMW (but I like Morel better, I put the $400 Audison's in my BMW 135i and they're better than factory, but for $100 more I could have put the Morel's in). I haven't tried the Helix Match speakers for BMW, but I do have access to them and they make a 4" component for $250. If I get a chance to get some in and try them I'll let you all know how they sound.
 

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Have you used the RF DSR1?
In other vehicles yes, it's a nice clean interface, but sound quality wise we prefer going the Pac Audio AP4-CH41 and JL Audio Twk-88. My husband John says there are less adjustments for sound control in the DSR1, but for a do-it-yourselfer, that's probably the easier (and more cost effective) way to go.

Also, we had some issues with chimes not working properly with the DSR1 when we had installed it in a Ford Escape. It took a bit of back and forth with iDatalink for them to get the software right, but eventually they created a software update to correct it. We haven't had a single issue with any of the Pac AP4 pre-amp adapters in any vehicle (have used varies models Jeep, Dodge, GM, Ford) and the JL Twk has always been reliable and spot on for us.
 

JLsport2019

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I didn't know we had to use a preAMP to equalize (to zero on eq), then add a aftermarket DSP amp :-(
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