Solid State Battery Replacements

[DaltonGang]

Just posing a few thoughts.
Solid state batteries seem to be the most logical upgrade for the Batteries in the 4XE and other electric vehicles with issues. Or, should I say, all electric and battery powered vehicles. It seems several companies have developed their versions of the Solid State Battery for vehicles.
What is holding back the industry from using them?
Can a Solid State Battery be retrofitted into a vehicle designed for a Lithium Ion battery? What all would need to be changed along with the upgraded battery?

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[2nd 392]

Just posing a few thoughts.
Solid state batteries seem to be the most logical upgrade for the Batteries in the 4XE and other electric vehicles with issues. Or, should I say, all electric and battery powered vehicles. It seems several companies have developed their versions of the Solid State Battery for vehicles.
What is holding back the industry from using them?
Can a Solid State Battery be retrofitted into a vehicle designed for a Lithium Ion battery? What all would need to be changed along with the upgraded battery?

Is charging compatible without major changes ? Even my home charger has flooded lead, AGM, LI settings.

 

[jeepoch]

Nowhere near an expert but here is a brief review of the downside of solid state batteries.

The primary difference between Solid-State and most other liguid or gel batteries (including lithiom-ion) is the anode, seperator and cathode elements are all 'solid'.

While this seems way better, here is its primary drawback:

Solid state batteries require high temperatures to operate. They consist mainly of either, ionically conductive polymers, ceramic coated polymers, or pure ceramics. Regardless, all three use lithium metal for the anode and either lithiated metal oxides or iron phosphate for the cathode.

Noting that using any lithium metal has it's own set of safety issues.

According to 'Car and Driver':
"Solid lithium metal is highly flammable at any temperature, reacting violently with moisture, water, or steam. Any cell maker using solid lithium will be under intense scrutiny to prove its new cells are at least as safe as today's, let alone supporting claims of much greater safety."

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a63306863/solid-state-batteries-evs-explained/

Hope this helps,
Jay

 

[DaltonGang]

Hopefully, between the Japanese engineers and Elon Musks engineers, something usable will be ready soon.

 

[TikiRick]

Another problem to be solved in designing a reliable solid state battery for automotive use is vibration. The liquid/gel components of flooded & AGM batteries can absorb vibration/shock caused by potholes, road conditions, etc. In a solid state battery, that liquid or gel material is replaced with rigid (solid) material, hence the name. The problem right now is, no one has developed a rigid material that is able to dissipate the heat that the battery would experience while remaining structurally sound for a hundred thousand miles on the roads in NJ. Eventually, someone will come up with the answer, but it will likely be really expensive....

 

[Pape]

Personally I would think hydrogen or a variant of super capacitor would make more senses but I'm only a keyboard warrior

 

[USNvet]

Over the past few days, with the production end of 4xe Wrangler and GC's being "sorta" officially announced through bloggers, a lot has also come out on solid state batteries being the cure for what ails lithium powered PHEVs.

The entire world seems to be frantically working on producing solid state batteries, and the technology perpetually seems to be close to reaching market, say in the next year or two, but they aren't quite there yet!

Then, surprise, at the CES show in Las Vegas that just ended yesterday, one practically unknown company announced and had on display mock-ups of its new solid state batteries they claim are first to market! They are supposedly in limited production until things can be ramped up over the next year or two. This is a Finnish company with a weird name, Donut Lab, which I'm guessing has to do with another whiz bang new donut shaped electric motor they developed and displayed at last year's CES show.

The Donut motor is in use in a new electric motorcycle now in production by a company named Verge, which is located in Estonia. Donut Lab was apparently spun off from Verge, and is now expected to become the far bigger company. These electric motorcycles are very high priced, presently use regular lithium batteries, but will soon use the new solid state batteries to double their range. The Verge company had their motorcycles on display in Los Angeles for a while, and to test ride, so they really do exist.

I'll post some videos of all of this below. Note that this new solid state battery technology has some almost "too good to be true" specs, so many people think it may be a scam, but the donut motors are for real so why go to so much trouble just to destroy your reputation promoting scam batteries? Some of this battery's tech, if not a scam, is that they contain no lithium, are quick to charge, can be made into many shapes and sizes, last almost forever, and can be charged or discharged in below freezing or boiling hot temps!

This first video is by a young guy with a PhD in something, who knows/went to school with people who work for the Donut Lab company, and visited the CES display a few days ago. He also covers some of the tech:


Second is an interview of the CEO of Donut Lab at CES Vegas and who covers more of the company's intended products and future:


Yesterday the interviewer from the second video joined a group discussion about the Donut company. Of the panel of four, three figure to wait and see if this too good to be true tech comes out to be dissected by first customers, and the fourth just thinks it's a scam. No need to watch anything beyond what the skeptic, Tom, has to say:


Last up is the test ride of Verge electric motorcycles in Los Angeles last December:


My closing thoughts; this new solid state battery technology from Donut Lab, or any other company, should be game changing for all electric vehicles, whether pure EV, hybrids or whatever if they can be charged as conveniently and quickly as gassing up an ICE vehicle. I will remain skeptical, but hopeful that this is for real and proven soon. Otherwise, I've been waiting over three decades for my new Pons and Fleischmann Cold Fusion power wall to arrive, so I'll just add these miracle batteries to my worth waiting for list!

 

[2nd 392]

@USNvet - fusion is just about 15 years away.. ….. like it was in the 70’s… 80’’s … up to the last article I read about it. Anyway- hopefully someday it’ll be true.

 

[DaltonGang]

A while back, there was talk about using Capacitors like batteries, in vehicles. The only problem was controlling the discharge rate.

 

[USNvet]

@USNvet - fusion is just about 15 years away.. ….. like it was in the 70’s… 80’’s … up to the last article I read about it. Anyway- hopefully someday it’ll be true.

Yeah, after Pons and Fleischmann were laughed off the physics stage, at least their claims were eventually vindicated. Over the years an Italian by the name of Andrea Rossi spent several years claiming he was very close to selling cold fusion power plants everyone could buy, and even had demo units to show his tech worked, then he went silent and retired to Florida.

 

[USNvet]

A while back, there was talk about using Capacitors like batteries, in vehicles. The only problem was controlling the discharge rate.

Yes, those videos seem to indicate these solid state batteries may be some form of capacitor. Maybe they have figured out how to control the discharge rate as their real secret. We shall see what comes of this hopefully very soon!

Also on display at CES was a lithium battery that had an even higher energy density than the Donut batteries. Donut is claiming 400 kWh per kilo of battery storage, and the Amprius company is claiming 520 kWh per kilogram. They claim their battery is lighter, longer, and stronger, but since it is still a lithium ion battery, they failed to say "safer".

Check it out here:

 

[USNvet]

Every Youtube channel with any connection to EV's and associated technology seems to be jumping onto the Donut Lab solid state battery announcement! Some of you nerd types have probably watched content put out by Ricky Roy on his Two Bit da Vinci YT channel before. To date, I think he has done the deepest dive into the tech of this battery, and he even gets to interview Donut Lab's CTO Ville Piippo.


I wonder how that Donut Lab Executive Team member on the right, who worked for Rivian, McLaren and Pininfarina/Ferrari, got involved:

 

[LAM]

Yeah, after Pons and Fleischmann were laughed off the physics stage, at least their claims were eventually vindicated. Over the years an Italian by the name of Andrea Rossi spent several years claiming he was very close to selling cold fusion power plants everyone could buy, and even had demo units to show his tech worked, then he went silent and retired to Florida.

Tell me more about TAE Technologies, Inc.

 

[USNvet]

Tell me more about TAE Technologies, Inc.

Never heard of em before today. Looks like they've attracted some big name investors but are well beyond the kitchen table fusion Pons, Fleischmann and Rossi were playing with. Is this something you're keeping an eye on?

 

[DaltonGang]

Over the past few days, with the production end of 4xe Wrangler and GC's being "sorta" officially announced through bloggers, a lot has also come out on solid state batteries being the cure for what ails lithium powered PHEVs.

The entire world seems to be frantically working on producing solid state batteries, and the technology perpetually seems to be close to reaching market, say in the next year or two, but they aren't quite there yet!

Then, surprise, at the CES show in Las Vegas that just ended yesterday, one practically unknown company announced and had on display mock-ups of its new solid state batteries they claim are first to market! They are supposedly in limited production until things can be ramped up over the next year or two. This is a Finnish company with a weird name, Donut Lab, which I'm guessing has to do with another whiz bang new donut shaped electric motor they developed and displayed at last year's CES show.

The Donut motor is in use in a new electric motorcycle now in production by a company named Verge, which is located in Estonia. Donut Lab was apparently spun off from Verge, and is now expected to become the far bigger company. These electric motorcycles are very high priced, presently use regular lithium batteries, but will soon use the new solid state batteries to double their range. The Verge company had their motorcycles on display in Los Angeles for a while, and to test ride, so they really do exist.

I'll post some videos of all of this below. Note that this new solid state battery technology has some almost "too good to be true" specs, so many people think it may be a scam, but the donut motors are for real so why go to so much trouble just to destroy your reputation promoting scam batteries? Some of this battery's tech, if not a scam, is that they contain no lithium, are quick to charge, can be made into many shapes and sizes, last almost forever, and can be charged or discharged in below freezing or boiling hot temps!

This first video is by a young guy with a PhD in something, who knows/went to school with people who work for the Donut Lab company, and visited the CES display a few days ago. He also covers some of the tech:


Second is an interview of the CEO of Donut Lab at CES Vegas and who covers more of the company's intended products and future:


Yesterday the interviewer from the second video joined a group discussion about the Donut company. Of the panel of four, three figure to wait and see if this too good to be true tech comes out to be dissected by first customers, and the fourth just thinks it's a scam. No need to watch anything beyond what the skeptic, Tom, has to say:


Last up is the test ride of Verge electric motorcycles in Los Angeles last December:


My closing thoughts; this new solid state battery technology from Donut Lab, or any other company, should be game changing for all electric vehicles, whether pure EV, hybrids or whatever if they can be charged as conveniently and quickly as gassing up an ICE vehicle. I will remain skeptical, but hopeful that this is for real and proven soon. Otherwise, I've been waiting over three decades for my new Pons and Fleischmann Cold Fusion power wall to arrive, so I'll just add these miracle batteries to my worth waiting for list!

So, basically, "Put up, or Shut up" for Ford, and others for Solid State??

In the Motorcycle video:
They really liked the EV motorcycles, and that was a good thing. Lots and lots of power.

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