ChuckQue
Well-Known Member
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Earlier I began posting excerpts from a research paper I found during my search for more information on R99. Rather than keeping those posts there I figured it would be better to put the discussion here so it’s easier to find.
The question was whether R99 was safe to use in our 3.0 ecodiesel. We already know the manual states B20 or less is approved with a modified maintenance schedule, but R99 is different than biodiesel. From what I’ve been reading, biodiesel is made differently and is prone to microbial growth, wax buildup, fuel separation, gelling in cold temps, etc. Biodiesel is recommended to be used 45 days after manufacture, which could be problematic for people who don’t daily drive their Jeep.
I know there have been a few people who have tried reaching out via JeepCares for clarification on R99 and simply received a “not recommended/approved” response. Considering that there is strong evidence JeepCares is contracted out by Stellantis for customer service stuff and probably doesn’t have an actual clue as to what R99 is, I take that answer as basically “I don’t know.” Realistically, if we were to get an official response from Stellantis it would likely consist of, “Aftermarket products including fuel are not approved or recommended and may result in warranty denial.”
So, moving on. This thread is to discuss R99, the information available about it, real world use and experience, etc. Comparisons to biofuel are acceptable, but simply shouting it down because you had a bad experience with biodiesel shouldn’t be posted as they are not the same thing.
Here’s what I posted on the other thread:
I’m going to bump this thread because I’ve been noticing more and more stations converting their diesel #2 pumps over to “Renewable Diesel”. They are typically B5-B20 blends, but 76 is the R99. It’s getting increasingly difficult to find regular #2, and I’ve had to run a couple tanks of B20 when out on the road and unable to find regular diesel. I think I’m going to keep my oil change intervals to lower mileage.
Has anyone else been using the R99 stuff with success? The 1500 forums seem to be full of people who do and they haven’t reported failures that seem to be anything outside of the CP4 failure.
Part of the problem I’m finding is the articles that are explaining the differences between biodiesel and renewable are written by the companies who make it. Obviously they are going to tout the benefits while claiming it’s totally fine for all modern applications. I’m hoping to find independent research that shows the R99 is safe to use and doesn’t gel or sludge the way biodiesel can.
https://www.opisnet.com/glossary-term/renewable-diesel-r99/
https://carsonteam.com/carsontalk/renewable-vs-biodiesel/
https://www.76.com/renewable-diesel
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337953124_R99_Renewable_Fuel_in_Emergency_Diesel_Generators
The forums for the 1500, here, and the JT forums contain a huge mishmash of people who are saying it’s bad to use the R99 (but also appear to not know it’s different than B20), those that use R99 regularly with no issues, and those that claim their vehicle exploded and killed their grandma because they just LOOKED at an R99 pump. Sifting through it I’ve come to the opinion that the failures that were blamed on R99 or B20 seemed to have gelling issues OR they were the typical CP4 eating itself failure which I seriously doubt is the fault of the R99 unless it has no lubricity similar to ULSD. In that case it’s less an R99 fault and more of a similar to ULSD lubricity issue which can be mitigated using additives like EDT.
Does R99 build up in oil on the ecodiesels the way B20 does, which is the main reason for the more frequent oil changes?
I think after my remaining 2 Jeep wave oil changes are up I’m going to try using the R99 for 5,000 miles and then have a UOA done to see how much fuel contamination there is. Thoughts?
Portland General Electric did a series of tests using emergency generators using R99 and R20, with ULSD as a control.
“Renewable Hydrocarbon Fuel (R99) was selected to perform functional testing in one of two identical Cummins 1000KW emergency diesel generators at PGE’s Carver Readiness Center.
One generator continued to run standard ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) while the other generator began using Renewable Hydrocarbon Diesel. Additionally, two other generators at Portland Service Center and Avery both used an R20 blend which consists of 20% Renewable Hydrocarbon (R99) and %80 Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD).
The main trial extended one year from August 1, 2018 – July 30, 2019. The generators ran in parallel with the grid for one hour at 90% of nameplate load each week.
The trial verified:
1) The use of the fuel provided lower emissions and lowered the total lifecycle carbon intensity over ULSD.
2) Use of the fuel does not have a negative mechanical impact on the generator.
3) The fuel has long term storage stability with no effect from ambient conditions.
4) The supply and price of R99 remained stable.“
They had the engines inspected by a Cummins tech after as well as the filters and found no issues. (Page 10 under “Effect on mechanical equipment”)
An R99 fuel sample was also sent in to Cummins for analysis and Cummins responded by saying essentially that they found it to meet spec, though the fuel energy density was slightly lower than ULSD which may result in less efficiency and power output. They then threw in the disclaimer that R99 is essentially an “aftermarket product” that doesn’t possess the Caterpillar label and thus isn’t approved. However, the company that provided the generators (Clark PUD) argued that R99 doesn’t void the warranty to any of the generators they owned, citing the Magnsom-moss warranty act for obvious reasons. (Page 11 “Warranty Considerations”)
Pages 13 and 14 go over “Other mechanical findings” where they interviewed other R99 users for generator applications. The City of Portland’s generator O-rings started failing after switching to R99, HOWEVER those generators had been running on B20 for the past 20 years and the belief was the switch to the R99 may have resulted in the scrubbing of particulates causing the 20 year old o-rings to finally fail. They stated it was likely less of an R99 issue and more of a B20 issue. They did, however, state the R99 has a lower lubricity than B20.
My takeaway is use Hot Shots EDT or other lubricity additive with R99.
Another interesting part of the research paper:
The question was whether R99 was safe to use in our 3.0 ecodiesel. We already know the manual states B20 or less is approved with a modified maintenance schedule, but R99 is different than biodiesel. From what I’ve been reading, biodiesel is made differently and is prone to microbial growth, wax buildup, fuel separation, gelling in cold temps, etc. Biodiesel is recommended to be used 45 days after manufacture, which could be problematic for people who don’t daily drive their Jeep.
I know there have been a few people who have tried reaching out via JeepCares for clarification on R99 and simply received a “not recommended/approved” response. Considering that there is strong evidence JeepCares is contracted out by Stellantis for customer service stuff and probably doesn’t have an actual clue as to what R99 is, I take that answer as basically “I don’t know.” Realistically, if we were to get an official response from Stellantis it would likely consist of, “Aftermarket products including fuel are not approved or recommended and may result in warranty denial.”
So, moving on. This thread is to discuss R99, the information available about it, real world use and experience, etc. Comparisons to biofuel are acceptable, but simply shouting it down because you had a bad experience with biodiesel shouldn’t be posted as they are not the same thing.
Here’s what I posted on the other thread:
I’m going to bump this thread because I’ve been noticing more and more stations converting their diesel #2 pumps over to “Renewable Diesel”. They are typically B5-B20 blends, but 76 is the R99. It’s getting increasingly difficult to find regular #2, and I’ve had to run a couple tanks of B20 when out on the road and unable to find regular diesel. I think I’m going to keep my oil change intervals to lower mileage.
Has anyone else been using the R99 stuff with success? The 1500 forums seem to be full of people who do and they haven’t reported failures that seem to be anything outside of the CP4 failure.
Part of the problem I’m finding is the articles that are explaining the differences between biodiesel and renewable are written by the companies who make it. Obviously they are going to tout the benefits while claiming it’s totally fine for all modern applications. I’m hoping to find independent research that shows the R99 is safe to use and doesn’t gel or sludge the way biodiesel can.
https://www.opisnet.com/glossary-term/renewable-diesel-r99/
https://carsonteam.com/carsontalk/renewable-vs-biodiesel/
https://www.76.com/renewable-diesel
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337953124_R99_Renewable_Fuel_in_Emergency_Diesel_Generators
The forums for the 1500, here, and the JT forums contain a huge mishmash of people who are saying it’s bad to use the R99 (but also appear to not know it’s different than B20), those that use R99 regularly with no issues, and those that claim their vehicle exploded and killed their grandma because they just LOOKED at an R99 pump. Sifting through it I’ve come to the opinion that the failures that were blamed on R99 or B20 seemed to have gelling issues OR they were the typical CP4 eating itself failure which I seriously doubt is the fault of the R99 unless it has no lubricity similar to ULSD. In that case it’s less an R99 fault and more of a similar to ULSD lubricity issue which can be mitigated using additives like EDT.
Does R99 build up in oil on the ecodiesels the way B20 does, which is the main reason for the more frequent oil changes?
I think after my remaining 2 Jeep wave oil changes are up I’m going to try using the R99 for 5,000 miles and then have a UOA done to see how much fuel contamination there is. Thoughts?
Portland General Electric did a series of tests using emergency generators using R99 and R20, with ULSD as a control.
“Renewable Hydrocarbon Fuel (R99) was selected to perform functional testing in one of two identical Cummins 1000KW emergency diesel generators at PGE’s Carver Readiness Center.
One generator continued to run standard ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) while the other generator began using Renewable Hydrocarbon Diesel. Additionally, two other generators at Portland Service Center and Avery both used an R20 blend which consists of 20% Renewable Hydrocarbon (R99) and %80 Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD).
The main trial extended one year from August 1, 2018 – July 30, 2019. The generators ran in parallel with the grid for one hour at 90% of nameplate load each week.
The trial verified:
1) The use of the fuel provided lower emissions and lowered the total lifecycle carbon intensity over ULSD.
2) Use of the fuel does not have a negative mechanical impact on the generator.
3) The fuel has long term storage stability with no effect from ambient conditions.
4) The supply and price of R99 remained stable.“
They had the engines inspected by a Cummins tech after as well as the filters and found no issues. (Page 10 under “Effect on mechanical equipment”)
An R99 fuel sample was also sent in to Cummins for analysis and Cummins responded by saying essentially that they found it to meet spec, though the fuel energy density was slightly lower than ULSD which may result in less efficiency and power output. They then threw in the disclaimer that R99 is essentially an “aftermarket product” that doesn’t possess the Caterpillar label and thus isn’t approved. However, the company that provided the generators (Clark PUD) argued that R99 doesn’t void the warranty to any of the generators they owned, citing the Magnsom-moss warranty act for obvious reasons. (Page 11 “Warranty Considerations”)
Pages 13 and 14 go over “Other mechanical findings” where they interviewed other R99 users for generator applications. The City of Portland’s generator O-rings started failing after switching to R99, HOWEVER those generators had been running on B20 for the past 20 years and the belief was the switch to the R99 may have resulted in the scrubbing of particulates causing the 20 year old o-rings to finally fail. They stated it was likely less of an R99 issue and more of a B20 issue. They did, however, state the R99 has a lower lubricity than B20.
My takeaway is use Hot Shots EDT or other lubricity additive with R99.
Another interesting part of the research paper:
Sponsored
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