Rear 6 Pack Shock optimization questions /help

[RickyPal]

Below is a rough draft concept I have for eeking out the most travel I can out of my rear suspension. If anyone knows of an equivalent shock that is >= 34 inches extended and 19.5 compressed, I’m all ears. I’m thinking (if sticking to coil springs) 6 packs are likely my best option for max travel. Please grill me and tell me how stupid this plan is.



Assume I have Metalcloak short arm control arms.


In the rear - current eye to eye shock is 19.49 compressed. Bumped two inches to not bottom out, also seems to be ideal for my 38s so assume this is optimal compressed eye to eye distance with stock mount locations.



6 pack: 13.25 fully compressed, 28.25 extended. Let’s give myself 0.25 margin so pretend I need 13.5 eye to eye for optimal mounting distance eye to eye.



I need to move the rear lower shock mounts up and upper down 6” total between the two to achieve this. My plan is to chop the rear axle brackets and move them up about 3-4”and figure out some remainder with an adapter on the uppers. Has anyone seen frame side brackets that lower the mounting point? I don’t see any. I’ll probably have to make my own.



This will make the 6 packs “act” like 34.25 long shocks, about a 3” downtravel increase compared to my current setup.



What are the drawbacks of this plan? What am I missing? Will Metalcloak 3.5 springs unseat ? I don’t see myself getting any more bump unless I hammer wheel wells out so it’s just a net droop gain in the rear. I also don’t understand why I never read about anyone moving the upper shock mount down.



After I lock in this bench build the rear, I’ll be playing the same games up front.

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[GATORB8]

Below is a rough draft concept I have for eeking out the most travel I can out of my rear suspension. If anyone knows of an equivalent shock that is >= 34 inches extended and 19.5 compressed, I’m all ears. I’m thinking (if sticking to coil springs) 6 packs are likely my best option for max travel. Please grill me and tell me how stupid this plan is.



Assume I have Metalcloak short arm control arms.


In the rear - current eye to eye shock is 19.49 compressed. Bumped two inches to not bottom out, also seems to be ideal for my 38s so assume this is optimal compressed eye to eye distance with stock mount locations.



6 pack: 13.25 fully compressed, 28.25 extended. Let’s give myself 0.25 margin so pretend I need 13.5 eye to eye for optimal mounting distance eye to eye.



I need to move the rear lower shock mounts up and upper down 6” total between the two to achieve this. My plan is to chop the rear axle brackets and move them up about 3-4”and figure out some remainder with an adapter on the uppers. Has anyone seen frame side brackets that lower the mounting point? I don’t see any. I’ll probably have to make my own.



This will make the 6 packs “act” like 34.25 long shocks, about a 3” downtravel increase compared to my current setup.



What are the drawbacks of this plan? What am I missing? Will Metalcloak 3.5 springs unseat ? I don’t see myself getting any more bump unless I hammer wheel wells out so it’s just a net droop gain in the rear. I also don’t understand why I never read about anyone moving the upper shock mount down.



After I lock in this bench build the rear, I’ll be playing the same games up front.

I assume you've seen the MC rear lowers.

This should be your free length for measurements. I remember getting into something when I installed the rear coils, as the axle moves forward.

I'm sure @CloakedWillys has seen more 6-pak installs than anyone.

 

[CloakedWillys]

Below is a rough draft concept I have for eeking out the most travel I can out of my rear suspension. If anyone knows of an equivalent shock that is >= 34 inches extended and 19.5 compressed, I’m all ears. I’m thinking (if sticking to coil springs) 6 packs are likely my best option for max travel. Please grill me and tell me how stupid this plan is.



Assume I have Metalcloak short arm control arms.


In the rear - current eye to eye shock is 19.49 compressed. Bumped two inches to not bottom out, also seems to be ideal for my 38s so assume this is optimal compressed eye to eye distance with stock mount locations.



6 pack: 13.25 fully compressed, 28.25 extended. Let’s give myself 0.25 margin so pretend I need 13.5 eye to eye for optimal mounting distance eye to eye.



I need to move the rear lower shock mounts up and upper down 6” total between the two to achieve this. My plan is to chop the rear axle brackets and move them up about 3-4”and figure out some remainder with an adapter on the uppers. Has anyone seen frame side brackets that lower the mounting point? I don’t see any. I’ll probably have to make my own.



This will make the 6 packs “act” like 34.25 long shocks, about a 3” downtravel increase compared to my current setup.



What are the drawbacks of this plan? What am I missing? Will Metalcloak 3.5 springs unseat ? I don’t see myself getting any more bump unless I hammer wheel wells out so it’s just a net droop gain in the rear. I also don’t understand why I never read about anyone moving the upper shock mount down.



After I lock in this bench build the rear, I’ll be playing the same games up front.

OK, Lots going on to be aware of. We have seen the mounts moved to allow for more droop. Just need to make sure other stuff stays happy.

The rear springs will unseat with the much droop. If you wanted to set the mounts to the point the coils unseat it would be better.

If you are on a short arm you will also have more axle steer in the last couple inches than the axle will droop. A long arm will handle it.



The big issue on the front is the driveshaft. The stock limits at about 27-27" of shock. An aftermarket normally has a had time at about 31-31.5". We would love to run more up front but that is hard to work around.

 

[RickyPal]

I assume you've seen the MC rear lowers.

This should be your free length for measurements. I remember getting into something when I installed the rear coils, as the axle moves forward.

I'm sure @CloakedWillys has seen more 6-pak installs than anyone.

I have seen them, I was hoping to just cut and weld my own on to eke out more. I am fairly certain the spring length is going to be my limiting factor though

 

[RickyPal]

OK, Lots going on to be aware of. We have seen the mounts moved to allow for more droop. Just need to make sure other stuff stays happy.

The rear springs will unseat with the much droop. If you wanted to set the mounts to the point the coils unseat it would be better.

If you are on a short arm you will also have more axle steer in the last couple inches than the axle will droop. A long arm will handle it.



The big issue on the fronts the driveshaft. The stock limits at about 27-27" of shock. An aftermarket normally has a had time at about 31-31.5". We would love to run more up front but that is hard to work around.

I’ll stick to the rear for now to not get crossed up, I figured the DS would limit the front. Thanks for the reference numbers there.

So with this particular platform at 3.5” of lift going to be impossible really to eke out all 15” of travel of the 6 pack shocks? If I assume the roughly 3 inch riser lower shock mount relocation MC offers is the upper limit before the spring unseats, that would put me right back at my current travel numbers . I suppose if there is a little more room to compress the mounting location eye to, I could theoretically get a little more.

Surely I am missing something though. I feel like I’ve seen people with a lot more droop than my current setup on 3.5 coil spring setups.

 

[GATORB8]

I’ll stick to the rear for now to not get crossed up, I figured the DS would limit the front. Thanks for the reference numbers there.

So with this particular platform at 3.5” of lift going to be impossible really to eke out all 15” of travel of the 6 pack shocks? If I assume the roughly 3 inch riser lower shock mount relocation MC offers is the upper limit before the spring unseats, that would put me right back at my current travel numbers . I suppose if there is a little more room to compress the mounting location eye to, I could theoretically get a little more.

Surely I am missing something though. I feel like I’ve seen people with a lot more droop than my current setup on 3.5 coil spring setups.

Not if you go up

 

[CloakedWillys]

I’ll stick to the rear for now to not get crossed up, I figured the DS would limit the front. Thanks for the reference numbers there.

So with this particular platform at 3.5” of lift going to be impossible really to eke out all 15” of travel of the 6 pack shocks? If I assume the roughly 3 inch riser lower shock mount relocation MC offers is the upper limit before the spring unseats, that would put me right back at my current travel numbers . I suppose if there is a little more room to compress the mounting location eye to, I could theoretically get a little more.

Surely I am missing something though. I feel like I’ve seen people with a lot more droop than my current setup on 3.5 coil spring setups.

Yeah, The point of the 6pak was to make the shock no longer the limiting factor for suspension travel. There are some other things that push on with those limits.

 

[RickyPal]

Yeah, The point of the 6pak was to make the shock no longer the limiting factor for suspension travel. There are some other things that push on with those limits.

Now I am curious how much more droop I can get until I unseat my springs, I’ll have to measure what they are at ride height when I get home from work!

 

[CloakedWillys]

Now I am curious how much more droop I can get until I unseat my springs, I’ll have to measure what they are at ride height when I get home from work!

Absolutely. Like anything we as a manufacture have to leave a little on the table to make up for variation in production and installs. Nothing wrong with dialing a setup in to maximize it.

 

[Roky]

This will make the 6 packs “act” like 34.25 long shocks, about a 3” downtravel increase compared to my current setup.

I think you’ll be ok at 34” extended in the rear…..MC rear coils are about an inch longer than mine , and I’m getting 33.25 ext. in the rear…. Where you have to make sure is when both wheels droop at the same time….. when I’m articulating (one side stuff, one side droop) my springs stay tight, but when I drop both sides they come loose……for this I’m running a single limit strap in the center so not to limit droop at each corner but holds the axle up enough to hold the springs…….if I was gonna be running high speed through the desert I would beef it up, but it works great for crawling and when I rack it up on the lift….

 

[GATORB8]

I think you’ll be ok at 34” extended in the rear…..MC rear coils are about an inch longer than mine , and I’m getting 33.25 ext. in the rear…. Where you have to make sure is when both wheels droop at the same time….. when I’m articulating (one side stuff, one side droop) my springs stay tight, but when I drop both sides they come loose……for this I’m running a single limit strap in the center so not to limit droop at each corner but holds the axle up enough to hold the springs…….if I was gonna be running high speed through the desert I would beef it up, but it works great for crawling and when I rack it up on the lift….

You're long armed, though. OP was planning short.

 

[Roky]

You're long armed, though. OP was planning short.

He’ll have to watch if he goes 34” or more with short arms, the ds and/or diff skid, if he has one, will hit the gas tank…

 

[RickyPal]

Sounds like for my second generation of suspensions step 1 should be long arms, then mess with shock optimization. I wasn’t too keen on losing the ground clearance, but if I want to chase flex it just seems to make more sense.

Most long arm kits that actually change geometry re introduce that transmission cross member that you remove for most skid installs. Isn’t there driveshaft contact issues with high flex setups? Plus I’ll have to find a compatible skid. I am sure they are out there. I think my top long arm choice right now is the MC 4 link.

 

[CloakedWillys]

Sounds like for my second generation of suspensions step 1 should be long arms, then mess with shock optimization. I wasn’t too keen on losing the ground clearance, but if I want to chase flex it just seems to make more sense.

Most long arm kits that actually change geometry re introduce that transmission cross member that you remove for most skid installs. Isn’t there driveshaft contact issues with high flex setups? Plus I’ll have to find a compatible skid. I am sure they are out there. I think my top long arm choice right now is the MC 4 link.

There are only a couple that add that crossmember back and the arm length is short compared to most other long arms. I am a bit biased to ours of course and have the original prototype on my personal JL.

 

[Roky]

Sounds like for my second generation of suspensions step 1 should be long arms, then mess with shock optimization. I wasn’t too keen on losing the ground clearance, but if I want to chase flex it just seems to make more sense.

Most long arm kits that actually change geometry re introduce that transmission cross member that you remove for most skid installs. Isn’t there driveshaft contact issues with high flex setups? Plus I’ll have to find a compatible skid. I am sure they are out there. I think my top long arm choice right now is the MC 4 link.

If you’re wanting to run long travel shocks on 3.5” springs, long arms really help….. They cleaned up some things for me… no more crab walking the rear end…. no more hitting the gas tank with diff skid at full flex…No more rubbing the exhaust with the front ds. The axles don’t get pulled/pushed around so there’s less binding….. bump stops hit more squarely…… The MC jounce bumps really helped out in the front as well……

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