Rational approach to Upgrading Alpine System?

[4a4c55]

That is cool.

What's really cool

is the second video showing what's involved to get to the knee speakers. Too involved for me unless I really have to replace one that's stopped working.

It's pretty tedious, but not that hard. OTOH, all the plastic clips are terrible -- pry and pray. And if you snap one, you've got a creaky dash until the UAW strike ends.

The GX328 speakers are available on Amazon for $58. Source a set of wiring adapters and you're set.

It would be a cheap "experiment". Who knows, you might think these are all you needed. $58 vs. $250 vs. (?).

The JBL.com website makes it look like the GX328s are no longer being sold. Meanwhile, the MB Quart JC1-108 speakers are just $75 at Amazon, and are part of that full-range set I mentioned ... so right now, they feel like my leading choice.

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[azjl#3]

I am not a stereo expert, but here's my take on it. Oh, and I have a 23 JLU Willys XR 2.0T with the Alpine system.

No matter what's driving the sound, ultimately the sound comes out of the speakers. I'd rather have a low budget system with really good speakers vs. a really high end system with cheap or poor speakers. Ultimately you're listening to what the speakers are capable of.

The Alpine system is an upgraded system, but some of the speakers seem cheap. Start with upgrading the 3.5" speakers on top of the dash and the overhead soundbar with some better 3.5" speakers (Crutchfield is your friend here) and go from there. They're easy to get to, and easy to replace. And adjust the fade and balance and everything else to your liking. You might have to experiment some to get it how you like it.

It is one thing to listen to your Jeep's stereo system sitting in your driveway with the engine off vs. going down the highway at 70 mph with all the engine and road and wind noise. How do I say this... don't have overly high expectations for living room quality sound while driving your Jeep. Don't spend a ton of money on it unless you've comfortably got it to spend.

I've got the Hot Heads headliner with the sound assassin straps, but that's about the extent of my sound proofing. I replaced the dash top 3.5" speakers with some Kenwood Excelon speakers (about $80/pair). Haven't replaced the 3.5" ones in the overhead soundbar (may or may not do those as I think it sounds pretty good right now). Again, road noise and wind noise may cancel out some of those expensive upgrades (for possibly small returns sound improvement wise) shops want to sell you.

My opinion anyways....

Spot on.

Klipsch used to advertise their $5,000 Klipschorns can easily be driven with an ipod putting out 1 watt. It's all about the speakers.

 

[azjl#3]

I respectfully disagree with this. I’d rather have a well amplified system pushing mediocre speakers than a weak (stock alpine) amp pushing good speakers. Usually the better the speakers, the larger the magnets and the more power needed to drive them adequately. If you don’t have enough power, they sound really flat.
The stock alpine system is weird in that it it distributes sound to each channel differently so it’s effectively “tuned” to its own setup. It’s just not powerful or premium enough for some people.
If you swap out speakers, it may not play well with that setup. Most of the options people reference are high efficiency models that sound good without a lot of power. If you expect more, then you need a better amplifier, which unfortunately requires some kind of add on to the alpine stereo like a PAC or DSR-1.

Regarding your magnet comment, That's not really true, large magnets on a well designed speaker will use far less power and make far better sound, far more dB output watt for watt over cheap speakers. Speakers are rated on efficiency at 1 watt, I believe 95 watts is a normal speaker at 1 watt. But that also includes home systems. Klipsch has many speakers with an output of 99-102dB using only 1 watt of power.

Clicking on random Alpine speaker reviews, they have a speaker rated at 88dB at 1 watt. Fairly inefficient. You hit the nail on the head, I want good sound, I listen at home, I am in the car using Sirius, whatever it gives me is what I got, with all the other noises as well. What I really want is sirius to drop half their channels, and double the bits per second so it all doesn't sound like noise from a tin can.

 

[AFD]

Did you make other mods for other locations? And what do you make of the distortion and crackling that others report with these, particularly at high volume levels?

No other changes made. Just replaced the crappy pair on the upper dash, stuck my Freedom Panel storage bag over the sub and adjusted the EQ and fader. Prior to the change, think I was running at +2 bass, +3 mid, +5 high and kept swapping between 0 and +1 fade toward the front, road noise compensation was set to level 1, though off sounds a little less "punchy". Afterward, I think I'm at +1 bass, +2 mid, +3 or +4 for highs, still leave the RNC on level 1.

I have absolutely no discernible distortion coming from anywhere before or after the change and depending upon the source material, usually crank things up to a volume of 26 to 34 without issue. On some hotly-produced tracks, you can get some slight distortion/clipping by going louder, though I almost always hear it from the much louder subwoofer first. This behavior was exactly the same before making any changes. Think the other member here that was reporting distortion with his TA set didn't have the Alpine system and solved the issue with adding a small Alpine powerpack amp behind the dash. The TA speakers are a bit less sensitive than stock, so I'm guessing they need a bit more power than the non-Alpine system provides to keep a similar volume output. Not really sure, though.

Also, I personally don't think you'd want additional highs coming from the knee speakers (or from behind your ears for that matter). Imo, the soundstage should be up in front of your ears with everything else providing tonal support/reinforcement that blends in, but doesn't draw attention away from the front. With my last stereo in another ride, I was able to bandpass the rear speakers, which gradually tapered out the highs (and blocked the lower frequencies they couldn't handle), effectively making them act like a midbass fill. Probably sounds like shit for your rear passengers, but I rarely have any and want my sound tailored to the driver and front passenger. By keeping the JL soundbar and knee speakers as-is with only added dash tweeters, it mimics this principle very well.

As @azjl#3 was just touching upon, car audio is fundamentally a "lost cause" to begin with, since the small enclosed cabin and weird angles already make for an incredibly far-from-ideal listening environment, compared to a room in your house. I personally love listening to music while driving and playing songs from my phone's built-in speaker would probably work for some people, but even with the added wind and road noise from off-road tires, I still wanted something a little better than what the "premium" system was providing. And while I'd love to add a couple good subs to the back, upgrade every speaker and add a few amps with notably more power and some DSP modules, for me, the "premium" factory system with added dash tweeters of some sort gets me to the "good enough" level of my own standards/expectations for mobile audio.

And tbh, TA also kinda gives me the "icks" so just wanna make it clear I'm not shilling for them. It's a nice product and I've spent more on far worse speakers, but several weird things like hiding the product specs, telling people to use a "high-speed" cable from their phone for better SQ, the waiting list thing and the weird blem I got on my tweeter ring all kinda rubbed me the wrong way. The reservation/pre-order thing only took a little over a month, so that wasn't too bad.

MB Quart makes some really nice stuff. I like your idea of just doing the upper dash speaker from their JL kit and replacing others if needed along the way. And I agree with what @ArmyRN suggested about using Crutchfield. As long as their policy hasn't changed, it's comforting to know you can do a return/exchange if you absolutely hate whatever you bought. Amazon's kind of okay in this regard, but I really don't think they want you actually trying out shit and then exchanging it, other than for things like clothes and shoes.

Best of luck with whatever you decide! ?

 

[jeepingib]

You were saying earlier that you weren't getting any high tones from the knee speakers. That's actually by design. There is a crossover in the amplifier. I don't know where it's set, but highs go to the dash only on the Alpine system for the front stage. In the sound bar it's similar that only the 3.5s get highs. And yes the mids are a bit of a muddy mess. A 4" paper cone that is cheaply made doesn't do a good job as a mid woofer.

 

[JeepinPete]

Here is my experience FWIW. '19 JLUR, alpine system. I have owned the Jeep for 30 months now. Always felt the highs just weren't there. The 3 band eq doesn't help matters. I found that say a 2/0/3 Bass/Mid/Treble setting produces a different result that a 8/6/9 for example, even though I would expect a simple amplification gain increase since all were incremented by an equal amount.

I use the flac format for my music and use android auto wirelessly using the aawireless dongle. I cannot hear a Quality difference between this and a usb stick. In addition, I bought Poweramp music player and its optional eq, which is a proper 10 band setup. It makes a huge difference as you can actually adjust to your hearts content.

Recently I installed the Terra speakers. This did the trick for me. It adds the missing highs and brings the soundstage up and to the front. Even with the treble boosted with the stock speakers they could not produce these frequencies. For a Wrangler, I am now perfectly happy.

Pete

 

[4a4c55]

No other changes made. Just replaced the crappy pair on the upper dash, stuck my Freedom Panel storage bag over the sub and adjusted the EQ and fader. Prior to the change, think I was running at +2 bass, +3 mid, +5 high and kept swapping between 0 and +1 fade toward the front, road noise compensation was set to level 1, though off sounds a little less "punchy". Afterward, I think I'm at +1 bass, +2 mid, +3 or +4 for highs, still leave the RNC on level 1.

Interesting. I think the RNC setting add some "loudness" -- that is, boosts low frequencies -- when it's on, regardless of level setting.

Also, I personally don't think you'd want additional highs coming from the knee speakers (or from behind your ears for that matter). Imo, the soundstage should be up in front of your ears with everything else providing tonal support/reinforcement that blends in,

@jeepingib says something similar. I totally agree. Thing is, the knee speakers sound muffled and awful, not just high-filtered. Like cone isn't working -- torn, or blocked. It's a real chore to get in there, and since these speakers are under a grille and also the plastic grille of the dash, it seems unlikely that there's a foreign object in there. But maybe they're damaged, as they do sound that bad.

Best of luck with whatever you decide! ?

Thanks to you again, and @ArmyRN too, for talking me through it and sharing your thoughts!

 

[Wbino]

 

[Midwestjeepguy]

I certainly want to DIY the install, but I don't mind buying a kit. (That's one reason I'd feel a bit skeegy going to an audio shop ... I'd steal their advice, and buy somewhere else. The other reason is that, the last time I went to a car stereo shop, some nineteen year-old kid told me he'd put together "an awesome system for you! It'll jump the bunnies and hump the hunnies!")

Thing is, tho, I'm not much of a fan of Kicker. And I don't think I need to upgrade all the speakers to fix my complaints. OTOH, maybe I do.

Did you make other mods for other locations? And what do you make of the distortion and crackling that others report with these, particularly at high volume levels?

I certainly want to DIY the install, but I don't mind buying a kit. (That's one reason I'd feel a bit skeegy going to an audio shop ... I'd steal their advice, and buy somewhere else. The other reason is that, the last time I went to a car stereo shop, some nineteen year-old kid told me he'd put together "an awesome system for you! It'll jump the bunnies and hump the hunnies!")


Thing is, tho, I'm not much of a fan of Kicker. And I don't think I need to upgrade all the speakers to fix my complaints. OTOH, maybe I do.


Did you make other mods for other locations? And what do you make of the distortion and crackling that others report with these, particularly at high volume levels?



I finally went out and played with the settings. The speakers all work. I think you're right, that the dash speakers don't do a good job with higher frequencies. I did notice, tho, that the knee speakers aren't doing much for high frequencies, either. Might not matter because they're pointed at the seat bolsters, but if I stick my head under the dash then I can clearly hear that they're really muddy.

Moving around the settings, I have to push the fader forward two or three clicks from center to get where I want. Since higher frequencies are directional, that makes the audio feel heavy left. The tone controls (I guess this is what people call the "equalizer" -- three channels?) sounded best at bass = +2, mid == +1, and high == +2. Writing this, I might try out centering the fader again and pushing highs up to see if they excite the front speakers.

Well, enough talk. At this point, I figure I have these choices:

1. Take a flyer at a coaxial front speaker. The Kenwoods seem popular, but if that Crutchfield online demo app is to be trusted, they're terrible. JL Audio and JBL both make a couple of nice models -- tho it seems like the GX328s you mention are discontinued.
2. Get the Terra Acoustics assemblies. Separate tweeters are appealing over coaxial models, but the prices is about $250. There's the waiting list, and the company gives me the icks.
3. Get another assembly. Turns out MB Quart has a huge system -- $1800 for six speakers and amplifiers, if I have it right. But it's also available a la carte, so I can start with the dash speakers and continue with known-compatible units if I think I need them ... all the way past my stated budget LOL! The JC1-108 speakers are more expensive than any of the other 3.5-inch speakers, but at $145 are half the price of the T/A assemblies.

So, I dunno ... I guess I can also read more!

But thanks for talking me through it, ya'll!

If you want to DIY then Trail Seven doesn’t make sense. They do offer other brands of speakers if you decide a kit is the way to go. Totally get it if Kicker isn’t your thing, I have a buddy who is super high on Klipsch because of their “horn” technology. They just don’t sound right to me. Yes, there are some objectively bad speakers but it’s mostly subjective. I have not had any distortion or crackling with the Kicker speakers, even at high volume with the top off. They absolutely sound better than the Alpine speakers and haven’t had any issue with the Alpine amp. Highs and mids sound great. Keep in mind you’re just not going to get the same audio experience as a home set up. You can only do so much given the location and direction of the Jeep speakers.

I did add poly fill around all speakers after taping the area with sound deadening tape. It’s worth the bit of extra work.

That is cool.

What's really cool is the second video showing what's involved to get to the knee speakers. Too involved for me unless I really have to replace one that's stopped working.

Definitely need to be motivated to do it. I was on the fence about doing them but after taking out the upper dash speakers and seeing how cheap they looked and felt I was glad I got replacements for the knee speakers. I wouldn’t say you MUST replace them to get better sound, the upper dash speakers are most critical for that in my opinion. But they definitely add to the mid level.

 

[troverman]

I have a Gladiator Overland, with the Alpine system. It claims "552 watts" which seems like a lot. The Gladiator cabin has different acoustics than a Wrangler cabin. The subwoofer is centered behind the rear seat and fires forward. Bass is omnidirectional, but I think this is a better location. Its also closer to the driver. Otherwise, the speakers are the same. I run the bass almost all the way up, with treble +2 and mid at 0. Too much treble brings out like squeaky brights that don't blend in well with the rest of the audio. Too much midrange and then the highs just disappear. It does not seem to be a particularly well balanced system. However, overall, its not bad. It does not seem to distort even at near max volumes, which impresses me. The bass is decent. If you take the top and doors off, this system seems very weak...but that's just the way it is in a Jeep. People seem to like the T/A's; I'm considering a pair. I like the way they look. The waiting list is by far the biggest annoyance. They can't keep even a few pairs in stock? Pathetic.

 

[Terpsmandan]

It's pretty tedious, but not that hard. OTOH, all the plastic clips are terrible -- pry and pray. And if you snap one, you've got a creaky dash until the UAW strike ends.

The JBL.com website makes it look like the GX328s are no longer being sold. Meanwhile, the MB Quart JC1-108 speakers are just $75 at Amazon, and are part of that full-range set I mentioned ... so right now, they feel like my leading choice.

I have a set of 108's in the dash of her JLUR and they are a nice upgrade. I went all in and installed the entire Quart Stage 6 along with the Drop in Sub and used a Fosgate DSR-1 in place of the AmpPro.

 

[caraholic]

Quart stage 6 has for sure been on my short list but debating if it’s worth the hassle. Already have the Terra acoustics .

 

[Riotfunk]

Doors off going down the highway I can hear mine just fine. I’m in a 2 door so probs the difference in some of the sound/loudness.

I put in to try the T/A just to see if they’re really any better. I’m thinking they’re going to be way too bright in the Jeep. And there’s nothing special about them, they just come with the grills.

Has anyone gotten a full spec sheet on these yet? I emailed and never got a response.

The alpine is actually really good for a factory system. Beats my Acura’s 18 speaker 800 watt and is 1000 times better than the shit B&O in my Bronco.

I found changing the headunit out will make a bigger difference than changing some of the speakers out. You get a cleaner signal and an actual EQ. Made a huge difference in my JK.

 

[Xcoaste]

I have the Terra Acoustics, the wait wasn't very long. Install took 15 mins and it was enough to hold me over. My days of putting thousands of dollars into a stereo are over, it can be a rabbit hole.

 

[troverman]

Doors off going down the highway I can hear mine just fine. I’m in a 2 door so probs the difference in some of the sound/loudness.

I put in to try the T/A just to see if they’re really any better. I’m thinking they’re going to be way too bright in the Jeep. And there’s nothing special about them, they just come with the grills.

Has anyone gotten a full spec sheet on these yet? I emailed and never got a response.

The alpine is actually really good for a factory system. Beats my Acura’s 18 speaker 800 watt and is 1000 times better than the shit B&O in my Bronco.

I found changing the headunit out will make a bigger difference than changing some of the speakers out. You get a cleaner signal and an actual EQ. Made a huge difference in my JK.

I tend to agree with what you are saying. The Jeep already puts out highs that sound to bright, or at least unbalanced. I'm guessing the TA's are a lot crisper, but there doesn't seem to be enough midrange (to me) in the Jeep Alpine system. Bass is pretty good. Mine is a Gladiator as I mentioned with the sub right behind the center of the back seat firing forward. I think a lot of Jeep's sound problems are speaker location...none of them are ideally located I don't think. You have top of dash speakers that aren't actually tweeters, you have a couple speakers aiming at your knees, and four more behind you head aiming straight down. Not ideal, but its OK given the removable roof and doors. I can hear my system OK with the roof and doors off, but at that point it needs more power to play louder. Changing the head unit out is pretty hard on a JL - lots of lost features.

As for Ford, the original Sony branded audio of 10-12 years ago was fairly decent. The Sony system in the aluminum body trucks is somehow worse. And the B&O doesn't sound any better than that Sony. My first car was a 1996 Ford Explorer Limited with the factory JBL system. Just 4 speakers, one in each door, and an 8" sub in the rear cargo area. That stereo sounded amazing.

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