Rational approach to Upgrading Alpine System?

[4a4c55]

The Alpine system is an upgraded system, but some of the speakers seem cheap. Start with upgrading the 3.5" speakers on top of the dash and the overhead soundbar with some better 3.5" speakers (Crutchfield is your friend here) and go from there. They're easy to get to, and easy to replace. And adjust the fade and balance and everything else to your liking. You might have to experiment some to get it how you like it.

These things are all true. But I wonder how you chose the Kenwood speakers. (Did you specifically pick the Kenwood Excelon KFC-X3C?) There's also the LBJ Club 322F and 34F, plus the Infinity REF-3032cfx. And about a dozen more -- the Focals are $900 for the pair, LOL! How did you know the Kenwoods were electrically compatible? How did you know they would provide the balance you were seeking?

Is Crutchfield also your friend? Because there, with the "compare the sound" feature, the Kenwoods sound tinny and terrible while the JBL and Infinity 3-inch speakers sound far more balanced. The feature seems like trying to match a paint sample online -- my speakers, computer, audio settings, room, will all modify the sound. But the difference between the Kenwoods and the Infinty speakers when listening with this feature are staggering.

How did you know you didn't want the TAs? Just price? The reviews are mixed, so it's hard to know, without trying, if you were one of the believers or disbelievers.

It is one thing to listen to your Jeep's stereo system sitting in your driveway with the engine off vs. going down the highway at 70 mph with all the engine and road and wind noise. How do I say this... don't have overly high expectations for living room quality sound while driving your Jeep. Don't spend a ton of money on it unless you've comfortably got it to spend.

This is what I mean by "noise floor". Outside stationary in the driveway, without the stereo or engine on, maybe there's about 40 db of ambient noise. It's a low noise floor, but a nice listening room at home might beat it by a few db. While driving along? The noise floor might be 80 db on a coarse highway with all-terrain tires. I'd feel pretty stupid if I spent $1000 on stereo gear only to listen to it in an environment so noisy. Those expensive Focal speakers are for suckers.

Also, I hope you can catch the vibe that I don't disagree with you at all -- but I don't understand how to decide among the available products just for the dash speaker upgrades ... not to mention the decision to upgrade the sound bar or knee box speakers, which speakers or hardware to use, to not do it, or ... There are tons of threads, all very subjective with little to know clear recommendations.

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[ArmyRN]

These things are all true. But I wonder how you chose the Kenwood speakers. (Did you specifically pick the Kenwood Excelon KFC-X3C?) There's also the LBJ Club 322F and 34F, plus the Infinity REF-3032cfx. And about a dozen more -- the Focals are $900 for the pair, LOL! How did you know the Kenwoods were electrically compatible? How did you know they would provide the balance you were seeking?

Is Crutchfield also your friend? Because there, with the "compare the sound" feature, the Kenwoods sound tinny and terrible while the JBL and Infinity 3-inch speakers sound far more balanced. The feature seems like trying to match a paint sample online -- my speakers, computer, audio settings, room, will all modify the sound. But the difference between the Kenwoods and the Infinty speakers when listening with this feature are staggering.

How did you know you didn't want the TAs? Just price? The reviews are mixed, so it's hard to know, without trying, if you were one of the believers or disbelievers.

This is what I mean by "noise floor". Outside stationary in the driveway, without the stereo or engine on, maybe there's about 40 db of ambient noise. It's a low noise floor, but a nice listening room at home might beat it by a few db. While driving along? The noise floor might be 80 db on a coarse highway with all-terrain tires. I'd feel pretty stupid if I spent $1000 on stereo gear only to listen to it in an environment so noisy. Those expensive Focal speakers are for suckers.

Also, I hope you can catch the vibe that I don't disagree with you at all -- but I don't understand how to decide among the available products just for the dash speaker upgrades ... not to mention the decision to upgrade the sound bar or knee box speakers, which speakers or hardware to use, to not do it, or ... There are tons of threads, all very subjective with little to know clear recommendations.

Thank you for asking.

Based on what I read on this forum regarding speaker upgrades with the Alpine system, the Kenwoods you mentioned were the ones I got. Price, convenience (easy to get to the top corner dash speakers, drop in), reviews, and availability drove my decision. I took an $80 gamble with the Kenwoods. Are they the best bang for the buck? I dunno. Would spending a little more get me a better sound (while driving down the highway)? I dunno. Where's the point where spending more essentially gets me little to no further gains? I dunno. I'm certainly not spending $1000 to upgrade a system I already thought sounded pretty good from the factory.

You are right, it is all subjective. What sounds good to you might suck for someone else. Your wallet, your ears... you get to decide what's right for you. If you think the Infinity speakers sound better (how much are they?), give them a shot. Then come back and tell us what you think of them. Worst thing that happens is you put your factory speakers back in and you put your after market speakers up for sale.

I opted against the TA speakers based mainly on price, second on reviews. I did my research, read the forum reviews, and then made a decision. Sounds like you've read all the threads. Don't get decision paralysis. I'd feel stupid too if I spent $1000 and couldn't tell a difference due to ambient noise. How much do you want to spend/gamble on this project? I gambled $80 - liked the new sound, and tossed the old speakers in the trash. I haven't decided on doing the sound bar speakers yet.

 

[liquids]

I changed the top-of-dash speakers to JBLs, then changed the soundbar to Alpine 6x9s (some dremeling inside the soundbar required), then finally disconnected the subwoofer. I was too boomy and the Alpines had plenty of bass. I like the sound now.
I could see changing out the knee speakers to 6.5s in Metra pods, but that's too much work for me so far.

 

[AFD]

There are tons of threads, all very subjective with little to know clear recommendations.

That's the problem. Sound quality is incredibly subjective. One person's opinion can vary wildly from the next, whether it be from hearing condition/ability, tonal preference, desired volume output, quality of gear or source material or just previous experience (listening to something you personally consider a "better" system can potentially spoil your expectations/standards - "ignorance is bliss" is actually a good thing imo).

Actually bought a set of "cheaper" Focal's in the past and to my ears, they were insanely better than the harsh Infinity Kappas I had returned to Crutchfield, which were noticeably better than the even cheaper JBL set I had returned prior which had poor midbass output (not knocking any brands, just my own experience with a few sets). Were they as good as Focal's component sets costing double or triple the price? Probably not. But based on my total budget for that particular build (including source unit, amps and subs) and my level of expectation or "pickiness", I didn't even want to audition them to find out, knowing I'd need to spend more on better amplification and would likely spoil my opinion for future builds to come.

Just like many things in life, audio gear is a deep rabbit hole where some people are completely satisfied listening to $10 earbuds and others are spending thousands (and hundreds of thousands) on the most premium equipment they can get their hands on.

Iirc, the JL's premium Alpine system was a $1,000 option by itself at one point, so whether it was purchased a la carte, came standard or was bundled with another package, keep in mind that you're already unsatisfied with something costing that much, which was already an upgrade to the standard base factory stereo. Aftermarket equipment is certainly a better bang-for-your-buck, but how much more you want to spend and how far you want to go trying to improve the system is an incredibly personal decision with little to no general consensus as to what's "better" and whether or not something is actually "worth" the added expense.

 

[Spank]

I'm playing MP3 files (160kbps or 192kbps bitrate) from a USB stick.

Although a lot of people argue there is little audible difference between a 192kbps and 320kbps MP3, you might want to consider 320 files and see (or hear) if there's a difference. Just the overall quality of the file and audio levels when they were ripped, regardless of the bitrate, can make a difference, too.

You'll probably notice a difference from your 160kbps files, though.

 

[4a4c55]

You'll probably notice a difference from your 160kbps files, though.

I doubt it. I pretty convincingly fail tests like these. In my own experiments, 128 kbps was where I was usually (more than 80 percent of the time) able to notice something. And that's with headphones in my listening room ... not in a noisy Jeep bouncing down the highway with rattling camping gear and a whistlin' roof rack. (And that's another reason a kilo-dollar system doesn't seem to be worth it.)

Aftermarket equipment is certainly a better bang-for-your-buck, but how much more you want to spend and how far you want to go trying to improve the system is an incredibly personal decision with little to no general consensus as to what's "better" and whether or not something is actually "worth" the added expense.

Sure. Thing is, that's not the question I'm asking.

I opted against the TA speakers based mainly on price, second on reviews. I did my research, read the forum reviews, and then made a decision. Sounds like you've read all the threads. Don't get decision paralysis. I'd feel stupid too if I spent $1000 and couldn't tell a difference due to ambient noise. How much do you want to spend/gamble on this project? I gambled $80 - liked the new sound, and tossed the old speakers in the trash. I haven't decided on doing the sound bar speakers yet.

The question I'm asking is: how do I approach make that decision?

Seems like your answer is to just take a gamble. Maybe the $80 Kenwoods do it for me, maybe they don't. Maybe I try the FA separates, maybe they do or don't work out. Maybe I try the Kenwoods, but then also decide to upgrade the knee boxes, or ...

To make a good decision, I need objective information. There's a big shortage of that -- as you agree. Even in this thread, people say "X was great!" or "Y wasn't so awesome". And that's that; they don't even explain what they expected, what they were looking for, what they thought the differences were. (One person even said they bought two products, named only one, and didn't say if they liked the results or not. LOL!)

If I have to guess and choose, then I guess that's what I'll do. But that seem irrational, and I'll feel kinda dumb doing it. It also seems expensive. If I buy and sell, I'll be losing money and time. Before you know it, when I find the $400 kit that makes me happy, I'll have spent another $500 (and three weekends) on return shipping, selling parts in the classifieds, and eating parts that I can't return anyway.

When shopping for home audio, I can audition things in a room. Maybe that room isn't much like my home, but I have a good relationship with the dealer. They let me try things for a couple weekends and return them, full credit, if I'm chosing something else. They'll come out and audition a few for me, even. Seems like there's no such path here. Is there? Is there a similar path? I'm worried there's not.

 

[ArmyRN]

Nope, no such path. What exactly are you looking for? Me... I just wanted to see if I could make a good thing sound a little better with just a little expenditure of money and effort.

Maybe ask your local Jeeping group or club if anyone has upgraded their Alpine system and see if they'll take you for a ride in their Jeep.

 

[Spank]

I doubt it. I pretty convincingly fail tests like these. In my own experiments, 128 kbps was where I was usually (more than 80 percent of the time) able to notice something. And that's with headphones in my listening room ... not in a noisy Jeep bouncing down the highway with rattling camping gear and a whistlin' roof rack. (And that's another reason a kilo-dollar system doesn't seem to be worth it.)

It also depends on the source of the audio and the software used to encode it. I had a USB stick with a number of 160kbps and even VBR files that sounded like shit and replaced them with 320kbps versions. Some didn't sound that much different, but many were much more rich and vibrant.

Sometimes the exact same song from an original album sounds slightly different than one from a "best of" album. There's also the matter of where you get said files, if you're not ripping them yourself, where an already low bitrate source is reencoded to a higher one from the lower bitrate.

Anyway, going down this rabbit hole deviates from your OP. Nonetheless, you're right, you aren't gonna pick up a lot of nuance in the audio spitting out of a Wrangler, but given the limitations of the Alpine system, any edge will help. For me personally, 320 and FLAC files made a difference in maintaining an audio fidelity I could certainly detect wasn't consistent before.

 

[AFD]

Sure. Thing is, that's not the question I'm asking.

The question I'm asking is: how do I approach make that decision?

Seems like your answer is to just take a gamble.

To make a good decision, I need objective information.

That's exactly it. Just like so much else in life, you're only going to find subjective opinions. Whether it's about what areas of the system need improvement (fronts only, all speakers, better amplification, DSP, etc) or which is the "right" gear you should be looking at.

It's still worth reading opinions, but without auditioning everything yourself (which you simply can't due to the never ending variety of brands and options and time/effort needed to install), it really boils down to making an educated guess as to what you specifically think needs improved and then make a gamble to purchase, install and listen to see for yourself whether the change was worth it.

I personally spent several months critiquing the Alpine system against my own standards/expectations and decided that I first and foremost wanted tweeters added to the upper dash instead of relying on a mostly full-range 3.5" driver to handle both upper-mids and highs. I could've bought a set of cheaper drop-in coaxials, but after coming across the TA speakers, felt that having a separate, distinct component tweeter and mid with the same easy direct-fit replacement was potentially a better solution. I probably could've purchased just a tweeter and a crossover at comparable or better quality with the same or better results, for a much cheaper price (not including fitment/appearance), but knowing TA was designed specifically for the JL, specifically for the Alpine's impedance and specifically for that exact location led me to think that it might be a safer bet and worth the gamble. And thankfully, it 100% addressed my complaint with that particular location. Not saying I think it's worth the price they're asking or that a set of coaxials wouldn't have satisfied me as well, or that they're the right solution for you, but that was the logic behind my decision and I'm happy enough with the purchase that I'm keeping them.

Another viable option would be to talk to a specialized car stereo installer in your area, tell them what you dislike about your current system, the budget you had in mind and see what they suggest. Unfortunately, you'll probably get varying opinions and reviews about what others think of his opinion, which is kinda where you're at now.

 

[jeepingib]

The highs are not good enough with the Alpine dash speakers. A decent set of 3-4 ohm 3.5" 2 way speakers with a tweeter can make a world of difference. I personally went with the JBL GX328.

 

[Midwestjeepguy]

Audio threads can quickly devolve into debates, much like oil brand/type threads, so ultimately go with what feels right to you and don't look back. I went through Trail Seven as they build plug n play kits that are easy to do yourself. The Kicker KS kit caught my eye, the speakers themselves get great reviews and I liked the additional tweeters it would add. For the record, I'm not affiliated with them nor receive kickbacks of any kind. Go with whatever you want, just letting you know the route I chose.

You'll pay more than if you buy all the speakers, pods, wires, tape, etc. by themselves, but you'll be saving time not having to find everything and put it all together yourself. With two very young kids at home and a wife that works nights/weekends in the healthcare industry, time is at a premium for me.

Dash and sport bar speaker swaps are super quick. The knee panel speakers are more involved as you'll have to remove parts of your dash. See install videos below. As for the kit I chose, here is my setup ($597 shipped to door and ready to plug in). Everything arrived well packaged and was cleanly assembled. Keep in mind this is the 'premium' kit so it plays well with the integrated Alpine amplifier.

• Kicker KST2504 1" Tweeters w/ crossovers (soundbar)
• Kicker KSC6704 6.75" Coaxial Speakers w/ .75" Tweeters (soundbar)
• Kicker KSC3504 3.5" Coaxial Speakers w/ crossovers and w/ .75" Tweeters (top dash)
• Kicker KSC404 4" Coaxial Speakers w/ .75" Tweeters (knee panel)
• Select Increments® JL/ JT sound bar speaker pods, pre-drilled

https://trailseven.com/collections/...de-premium-18-jl-20-jt?variant=43911682261245

 

[4a4c55]

You'll pay more than if you buy all the speakers, pods, wires, tape, etc. by themselves, but you'll be saving time not having to find everything and put it all together yourself. With two very young kids at home and a wife that works nights/weekends in the healthcare industry, time is at a premium for me.

I certainly want to DIY the install, but I don't mind buying a kit. (That's one reason I'd feel a bit skeegy going to an audio shop ... I'd steal their advice, and buy somewhere else. The other reason is that, the last time I went to a car stereo shop, some nineteen year-old kid told me he'd put together "an awesome system for you! It'll jump the bunnies and hump the hunnies!")

Thing is, tho, I'm not much of a fan of Kicker. And I don't think I need to upgrade all the speakers to fix my complaints. OTOH, maybe I do.

but knowing TA was designed specifically for the JL, specifically for the Alpine's impedance and specifically for that exact location led me to think that it might be a safer bet and worth the gamble. And thankfully, it 100% addressed my complaint with that particular location.

Did you make other mods for other locations? And what do you make of the distortion and crackling that others report with these, particularly at high volume levels?

You'll pay more than if you buy all the speakers, pods, wires, tape, etc. by themselves, but you'll be saving time not having to find everything and put it all together yourself. With two very young kids at home and a wife that works nights/weekends in the healthcare industry, time is at a premium for me.

I certainly want to DIY the install, but I don't mind buying a kit. (That's one reason I'd feel a bit skeegy going to an audio shop ... I'd steal their advice, and buy somewhere else. The other reason is that, the last time I went to a car stereo shop, some nineteen year-old kid told me he'd put together "an awesome system for you! It'll jump the bunnies and hump the hunnies!")


Thing is, tho, I'm not much of a fan of Kicker. And I don't think I need to upgrade all the speakers to fix my complaints. OTOH, maybe I do.

but knowing TA was designed specifically for the JL, specifically for the Alpine's impedance and specifically for that exact location led me to think that it might be a safer bet and worth the gamble. And thankfully, it 100% addressed my complaint with that particular location.

Did you make other mods for other locations? And what do you make of the distortion and crackling that others report with these, particularly at high volume levels?

The highs are not good enough with the Alpine dash speakers. A decent set of 3-4 ohm 3.5" 2 way speakers with a tweeter can make a world of difference. I personally went with the JBL GX328.

I finally went out and played with the settings. The speakers all work. I think you're right, that the dash speakers don't do a good job with higher frequencies. I did notice, tho, that the knee speakers aren't doing much for high frequencies, either. Might not matter because they're pointed at the seat bolsters, but if I stick my head under the dash then I can clearly hear that they're really muddy.

Moving around the settings, I have to push the fader forward two or three clicks from center to get where I want. Since higher frequencies are directional, that makes the audio feel heavy left. The tone controls (I guess this is what people call the "equalizer" -- three channels?) sounded best at bass = +2, mid == +1, and high == +2. Writing this, I might try out centering the fader again and pushing highs up to see if they excite the front speakers.

Well, enough talk. At this point, I figure I have these choices:

1. Take a flyer at a coaxial front speaker. The Kenwoods seem popular, but if that Crutchfield online demo app is to be trusted, they're terrible. JL Audio and JBL both make a couple of nice models -- tho it seems like the GX328s you mention are discontinued.
2. Get the Terra Acoustics assemblies. Separate tweeters are appealing over coaxial models, but the prices is about $250. There's the waiting list, and the company gives me the icks.
3. Get another assembly. Turns out MB Quart has a huge system -- $1800 for six speakers and amplifiers, if I have it right. But it's also available a la carte, so I can start with the dash speakers and continue with known-compatible units if I think I need them ... all the way past my stated budget LOL! The JC1-108 speakers are more expensive than any of the other 3.5-inch speakers, but at $145 are half the price of the T/A assemblies.

So, I dunno ... I guess I can also read more!

But thanks for talking me through it, ya'll!

 

[rjpjeep]

I went with the Alpine RS speakers, Stinger marine amp, Audio designs dual voice coil sub, and the Alpine restyle head unit system with the cam system. LOVE IT. Top back, doors off, loud and clear at 75.

 

[ArmyRN]

Audio threads can quickly devolve into debates, much like oil brand/type threads, so ultimately go with what feels right to you and don't look back. I went through Trail Seven as they build plug n play kits that are easy to do yourself. The Kicker KS kit caught my eye, the speakers themselves get great reviews and I liked the additional tweeters it would add. For the record, I'm not affiliated with them nor receive kickbacks of any kind. Go with whatever you want, just letting you know the route I chose.

You'll pay more than if you buy all the speakers, pods, wires, tape, etc. by themselves, but you'll be saving time not having to find everything and put it all together yourself. With two very young kids at home and a wife that works nights/weekends in the healthcare industry, time is at a premium for me.

Dash and sport bar speaker swaps are super quick. The knee panel speakers are more involved as you'll have to remove parts of your dash. See install videos below. As for the kit I chose, here is my setup ($597 shipped to door and ready to plug in). Everything arrived well packaged and was cleanly assembled. Keep in mind this is the 'premium' kit so it plays well with the integrated Alpine amplifier.

• Kicker KST2504 1" Tweeters w/ crossovers (soundbar)
• Kicker KSC6704 6.75" Coaxial Speakers w/ .75" Tweeters (soundbar)
• Kicker KSC3504 3.5" Coaxial Speakers w/ crossovers and w/ .75" Tweeters (top dash)
• Kicker KSC404 4" Coaxial Speakers w/ .75" Tweeters (knee panel)
• Select Increments® JL/ JT sound bar speaker pods, pre-drilled

https://trailseven.com/collections/...de-premium-18-jl-20-jt?variant=43911682261245

That is cool.

What's really cool is the second video showing what's involved to get to the knee speakers. Too involved for me unless I really have to replace one that's stopped working.

 

[ArmyRN]

I certainly want to DIY the install, but I don't mind buying a kit. (That's one reason I'd feel a bit skeegy going to an audio shop ... I'd steal their advice, and buy somewhere else. The other reason is that, the last time I went to a car stereo shop, some nineteen year-old kid told me he'd put together "an awesome system for you! It'll jump the bunnies and hump the hunnies!")

Thing is, tho, I'm not much of a fan of Kicker. And I don't think I need to upgrade all the speakers to fix my complaints. OTOH, maybe I do.

Did you make other mods for other locations? And what do you make of the distortion and crackling that others report with these, particularly at high volume levels?

I certainly want to DIY the install, but I don't mind buying a kit. (That's one reason I'd feel a bit skeegy going to an audio shop ... I'd steal their advice, and buy somewhere else. The other reason is that, the last time I went to a car stereo shop, some nineteen year-old kid told me he'd put together "an awesome system for you! It'll jump the bunnies and hump the hunnies!")


Thing is, tho, I'm not much of a fan of Kicker. And I don't think I need to upgrade all the speakers to fix my complaints. OTOH, maybe I do.


Did you make other mods for other locations? And what do you make of the distortion and crackling that others report with these, particularly at high volume levels?



I finally went out and played with the settings. The speakers all work. I think you're right, that the dash speakers don't do a good job with higher frequencies. I did notice, tho, that the knee speakers aren't doing much for high frequencies, either. Might not matter because they're pointed at the seat bolsters, but if I stick my head under the dash then I can clearly hear that they're really muddy.

Moving around the settings, I have to push the fader forward two or three clicks from center to get where I want. Since higher frequencies are directional, that makes the audio feel heavy left. The tone controls (I guess this is what people call the "equalizer" -- three channels?) sounded best at bass = +2, mid == +1, and high == +2. Writing this, I might try out centering the fader again and pushing highs up to see if they excite the front speakers.

Well, enough talk. At this point, I figure I have these choices:

1. Take a flyer at a coaxial front speaker. The Kenwoods seem popular, but if that Crutchfield online demo app is to be trusted, they're terrible. JL Audio and JBL both make a couple of nice models -- tho it seems like the GX328s you mention are discontinued.
2. Get the Terra Acoustics assemblies. Separate tweeters are appealing over coaxial models, but the prices is about $250. There's the waiting list, and the company gives me the icks.
3. Get another assembly. Turns out MB Quart has a huge system -- $1800 for six speakers and amplifiers, if I have it right. But it's also available a la carte, so I can start with the dash speakers and continue with known-compatible units if I think I need them ... all the way past my stated budget LOL! The JC1-108 speakers are more expensive than any of the other 3.5-inch speakers, but at $145 are half the price of the T/A assemblies.

So, I dunno ... I guess I can also read more!

But thanks for talking me through it, ya'll!

The GX328 speakers are available on Amazon for $58. Source a set of wiring adapters and you're set.

It would be a cheap "experiment". Who knows, you might think these are all you needed. $58 vs. $250 vs. (?).

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