Next Generation Prediction

[jeepingib]

Yeah, been going the rounds with this fool for a while now. That's why I have lost some of my civility in my replies.

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[yokramer]

Yeah, been going the rounds with this fool for a while now. That's why I have lost some of my civility in my replies.

No we are just assholes and children

 

[Zandcwhite]

Don't worry, if the next gen post JL comes out with an actually redesigned frame and tub he'll be back to tell us all he was right even if he was off by 5+ years. Maybe it will even offer 37s and he can claim to have predicted that too. I get predictions being wrong back in 2021 as everyone was just guessing (although some of his responses came off as guarantees because he'd seen this allegedly redesigned frame). But to come back in 2023 claiming staunchly to have been right as the frame and tub were changed even though they weren't in any way I can find. I don't have 2 frames to stack on top of each other to look for minute differences, but if the parts that bolt frame rail to frame rail in the front, middle, and rear all still fit the rail spacing couldn't have possibly changed. If everything from suspensions to shock relocation brackets to steering box reenforcement brackets all still fit the frame was not redesigned for tire clearance (not that it needed to be, the 39s don't rub on the frame on our 2022). And it's still a JL so it was in fact a mid cycle refresh not a redesign according to Jeep themselves. Literally wrong about everything he said in 2021 AND 2023.

 

[TheRaven]

Don't worry, if the next gen post JL comes out with an actually redesigned frame and tub he'll be back to tell us all he was right even if he was off by 5+ years. Maybe it will even offer 37s and he can claim to have predicted that too. I get predictions being wrong back in 2021 as everyone was just guessing (although some of his responses came off as guarantees because he'd seen this allegedly redesigned frame). But to come back in 2023 claiming staunchly to have been right as the frame and tub were changed even though they weren't in any way I can find. I don't have 2 frames to stack on top of each other to look for minute differences, but if the parts that bolt frame rail to frame rail in the front, middle, and rear all still fit the rail spacing couldn't have possibly changed. If everything from suspensions to shock relocation brackets to steering box reenforcement brackets all still fit the frame was not redesigned for tire clearance (not that it needed to be, the 39s don't rub on the frame on our 2022). And it's still a JL so it was in fact a mid cycle refresh not a redesign according to Jeep themselves. Literally wrong about everything he said in 2021 AND 2023.

You said it yourself...

I don't have 2 frames to stack on top of each other...

So what you're saying here is you don't know. Jeepingib, Remoseless, yokramer...NONE OF YOU ACTUALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. I was there, with the frame, in person, I got an explanation of what is different.

READ CAREFULLY - I WAS THERE, I SAW THE DIFFERENCES. YOU DIDN'T. YOU ARE WRONG.

I have no idea why Jeepingib was so offended that I chose to offer a bit of information. Immaturity is about the only thing I can think of. To drag up a thread this old, to attempt to do YET ANOTHER VICTORY LAP he didn't earn...that's impressively childish. His ego clearly really got hurt and I have no idea why.

 

[Zandcwhite]

You said it yourself...

I don't have 2 frames to stack on top of each other...

So what you're saying here is you don't know. Jeepingib, Remoseless, yokramer...NONE OF YOU ACTUALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. I was there, with the frame, in person, I got an explanation of what is different.

READ CAREFULLY - I WAS THERE, I SAW THE DIFFERENCES. YOU DIDN'T. YOU ARE WRONG.

I have no idea why Jeepingib was so offended that I chose to offer a bit of information. Immaturity is about the only thing I can think of. To drag up a thread this old, to attempt to do YET ANOTHER VICTORY LAP he didn't earn...that's impressively childish. His ego clearly really got hurt and I have no idea why.

How do bumpers, skids, etc that bolt from frame rail to frame rail fit 2018 and 2024 frames if the rail spacing changed as you claim? That's physically impossible. Sure there might be some slight changes, but those items completely refute your rail spacing change idea which then refutes your "major changes" claim. Could they have reworked a little bit of it or reprofiled some spots (not where the engine, steering box, skids, bumpers, or suspension mount as those are all 2018 and up compatible)? Sure. But being that your "I was there and saw the frame spacing changed" statement has been proven false, how do we know what you saw was even a JL frame let alone one that actually made production? Your description of those changes has been proven at minimum mostly false. What is different specifically? I'll stop by the dealer and take pictures of the specific spots with measurements to compare to our 2022 in the driveway if you can actually describe even 1 real difference? As far as childish, at a minimum you were wrong about rail spacing and yet you're still here claiming you weren't?

 

[yokramer]

How do bumpers, skids, etc that bolt from frame rail to frame rail fit 2018 and 2024 frames if the rail spacing changed as you claim? That's physically impossible. Sure there might be some slight changes, but those items completely refute your rail spacing change idea which then refutes your "major changes" claim. Could they have reworked a little bit of it or reprofiled some spots (not where the engine, steering box, skids, bumpers, or suspension mount as those are all 2018 and up compatible)? Sure. But being that your "I was there and saw the frame spacing changed" statement has been proven false, how do we know what you saw was even a JL frame let alone one that actually made production?

Gotta take his well educated word for it.

 

[TheRaven]

How do bumpers, skids, etc that bolt from frame rail to frame rail fit 2018 and 2024 frames if the rail spacing changed as you claim? That's physically impossible.

No it's not. Note I said that they reprofiled the frame...that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is different. I will add the disclaimer for this next part, knowing that everything I say is taken with every single technicality possible, that I don't know this for fact - but it would make sense to me that they'd want to maintain compatibility with as many add-ons as possible so that they don't have to re-design those too.

That's physically impossible. Sure there might be some slight changes, but those items completely refute your rail spacing change idea which then refutes your "major changes" claim. Could they have reworked a little bit of it or reprofiled some spots (not where the engine, steering box, skids, bumpers, or suspension mount as those are all 2018 and up compatible)? Sure.

We've already been over this multiple times in this thread - I consider these changes to be more than a "refresh" or "minor revisions"...but that's just my opinion. You can disagree. That doesn't make me wrong. It just means we disagree.

Furthermore, you have to keep in mind that my original post was before the 2024 model debuted so I had no knowledge whatsoever of the body, interior, or styling changes that would be made. I saw a frame, learned about the changes on the frame, then inferred a few things - one, that the tub would have to be modified to accommodate the changes on the frame, two, that it looked obvious to me based on where the changes were that they were planning to offer a larger tire package, and three, that the fact that they went so far as to redesign the frame meant that they were going a lot farther with the changes than they ended up going. This was also at the time that everyone was speculating that the Hurricane i6 would be coming to the Wrangler (that's the entire reason I made the original comment in fact). A couple of members egos were hurt by the information I shared so they took a couple facts and a few more opinions of mine, played whisper-down-the-alley, and turned my words into "the 2024 Wrangler is all new and will be not at all like the 2018-23 model".

This, just like the other comment of mine that the JLWranglerForums 8th graders latched onto, has been blown so far out of proportion that there's really no way to recover it at this point.

 

[jeepingib]

No it's not. Note I said that they reprofiled the frame...that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is different. I will add the disclaimer for this next part, knowing that everything I say is taken with every single technicality possible, that I don't know this for fact - but it would make sense to me that they'd want to maintain compatibility with as many add-ons as possible so that they don't have to re-design those too.



We've already been over this multiple times in this thread - I consider these changes to be more than a "refresh" or "minor revisions"...but that's just my opinion. You can disagree. That doesn't make me wrong. It just means we disagree.

Furthermore, you have to keep in mind that my original post was before the 2024 model debuted so I had no knowledge whatsoever of the body, interior, or styling changes that would be made. I saw a frame, learned about the changes on the frame, then inferred a few things - one, that the tub would have to be modified to accommodate the changes on the frame, two, that it looked obvious to me based on where the changes were that they were planning to offer a larger tire package, and three, that the fact that they went so far as to redesign the frame meant that they were going a lot farther with the changes than they ended up going. This was also at the time that everyone was speculating that the Hurricane i6 would be coming to the Wrangler (that's the entire reason I made the original comment in fact). A couple of members egos were hurt by the information I shared so they took a couple facts and a few more opinions of mine, played whisper-down-the-alley, and turned my words into "the 2024 Wrangler is all new and will be not at all like the 2018-23 model".

This, just like the other comment of mine that the JLWranglerForums 8th graders latched onto, has been blown so far out of proportion that there's really no way to recover it at this point.

The burden of proof is not on those share the majority opinion. You claim something that clearly negates common knowledge. Parts are shared between 18-24 model years, including fender liners which would be where I would infer from your claims to be the change which could theoretically allow larger tires. Or skids, which would indicate rail spacing change.

Regardless of those points questionable validity, the claim that it's more than a refresh is easily observed as false. Yet you still buckle down and claim a definition of "refresh" that is unique in only your mind.

 

[Punkn89]

Well shoot, if you saw it, who are we to argue!

 

[yokramer]

The burden of proof is not on those share the majority opinion. You claim something that clearly negates common knowledge. Parts are shared between 18-24 model years, including fender liners which would be where I would infer from your claims to be the change which could theoretically allow larger tires. Or skids, which would indicate rail spacing change.

Regardless of those points questionable validity, the claim that it's more than a refresh is easily observed as false. Yet you still buckle down and claim a definition of "refresh" that is unique in only your mind.

That whole post was just more backtracking on what he claims to have said.

 

[TheRaven]

The burden of proof is not on those share the majority opinion. You claim something that clearly negates common knowledge. Parts are shared between 18-24 model years, including fender liners which would be where I would infer from your claims to be the change which could theoretically allow larger tires. Or skids, which would indicate rail spacing change.

Regardless of those points questionable validity, the claim that it's more than a refresh is easily observed as false. Yet you still buckle down and claim a definition of "refresh" that is unique in only your mind.

The burden of proof is on those who make claims about things they have no experience with. You demonstrate above that once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't even know what the "majority opinion" is.

I ASSUMED (I said that clearly) that they were making room for bigger tires...thus far, there's no larger tire package available, thus I would not expect fender liners to be different. Also, skids would mount under the cab, and as far as I know the rail spacing hasn't changed there.

I'm done going around with you on this. There's nothing I can do or say at this point that's going to change your mind and you won't stop until you feel validated. You're acting like a child and i'm not interested in being part of this any more.

 

[Zandcwhite]

No it's not. Note I said that they reprofiled the frame...that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is different. I will add the disclaimer for this next part, knowing that everything I say is taken with every single technicality possible, that I don't know this for fact - but it would make sense to me that they'd want to maintain compatibility with as many add-ons as possible so that they don't have to re-design those too.



We've already been over this multiple times in this thread - I consider these changes to be more than a "refresh" or "minor revisions"...but that's just my opinion. You can disagree. That doesn't make me wrong. It just means we disagree.

Furthermore, you have to keep in mind that my original post was before the 2024 model debuted so I had no knowledge whatsoever of the body, interior, or styling changes that would be made. I saw a frame, learned about the changes on the frame, then inferred a few things - one, that the tub would have to be modified to accommodate the changes on the frame, two, that it looked obvious to me based on where the changes were that they were planning to offer a larger tire package, and three, that the fact that they went so far as to redesign the frame meant that they were going a lot farther with the changes than they ended up going. This was also at the time that everyone was speculating that the Hurricane i6 would be coming to the Wrangler (that's the entire reason I made the original comment in fact). A couple of members egos were hurt by the information I shared so they took a couple facts and a few more opinions of mine, played whisper-down-the-alley, and turned my words into "the 2024 Wrangler is all new and will be not at all like the 2018-23 model".

This, just like the other comment of mine that the JLWranglerForums 8th graders latched onto, has been blown so far out of proportion that there's really no way to recover it at this point.

You literally said the rail spacing changed multiple times? Where? How? The motor mounts are the same which also wouldn't work if the rails moved closer together for tire clearance. Are you admitting now that at least that part you were wrong about? Reprofiled where? Give one specific example. The 2024s are everywhere now, at this point I'd like to go see it. Again, maybe you saw some pre-production frame that literally none of those changes made it into production but for Christ's sake admit you were wrong as far as what is actually changed on the production mud-cycle refresh. The frame spacing didn't change period. Maybe some reprofiling, but you haven't even given a clear example of that.

And the Kicker that proves you're the one that doesn't know what the hell you're talking about....

Even mopar says the frame and all attached parts are the SAME. Note the only change from the 2018-2021s vs the 2022-2024s is the tire deflection bracket on the passengers side. Admit when you're wrong? It's the information age, you can't claim things change that don't when we can literally pull up part numbers proving otherwise. The 2024 has the same frame as my 2022 period.

 

[jeepingib]

The burden of proof is on those who make claims about things they have no experience with. You demonstrate above that once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't even know what the "majority opinion" is.

I ASSUMED (I said that clearly) that they were making room for bigger tires...thus far, there's no larger tire package available, thus I would not expect fender liners to be different. Also, skids would mount under the cab, and as far as I know the rail spacing hasn't changed there.

I'm done going around with you on this. There's nothing I can do or say at this point that's going to change your mind and you won't stop until you feel validated. You're acting like a child and i'm not interested in being part of this any more.

I can claim to see the Virgin Mary in a piece of toast but that doesn't make it true.

When this conversation has been 1 person's opinion vs that of several other people, it's rather obvious what the majority opinion is. It's the on you to validate your claims that not one person here believes to be true.

Shut us up by providing information about how you are right.

 

[TheRaven]

You literally said the rail spacing changed multiple times? Where? How? The motor mounts are the same which also wouldn't work if the rails moved closer together for tire clearance.

I already explained this further back in this thread, you can just go back and read it - the frame was reprofiled around the front wheel wells...I don't know the exact amount of change as I was not able to measure, and honestly don't care as much as you seem to. I don't see why any of these other things would have to change - the motor mount brackets could have just been changed to accommodate the frame rail profile and keep the motor(s) in the same place.

It's absolutely astonishing how important this is to three members. I've grown extremely tired of continually repeating myself. I'm done here...there's nothing more I can explain that isn't already explained in the thread, so if you really want to know, go back and read.

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