Manual Transmission - Issues shifting into 1st & Reverse (Compilation thread)

[Reflektr]

Can you elaborate on changing from atf 4? Is that in the transmission itself? That is something I would be willing to try

I came across this in another thread while searching for a solution to the sporadic notchy shifting in 1st to 3rd. For some reason Jeep uses automatic transmission fluid in their manual gearboxes. Another member on here suggested trying out a manual gearbox oil such as Royal Purple or Redline. Since it’s actually made for gear synchronizers, where ATF is not. As simple as it is to change, I figured what could it hurt. So I wheeled it in the shop after work and dropped the plug. I drained it into a clear washer fluid jug so I could inspect what came out. And just in case another mechanic couldn’t throw me the old “Bad Synchro” line… I believe it holds around 2.5 quarts. I filled ‘er back up with Redline MTL and hoped for the best. Some people say it made a difference in shifting. I can honestly say in my case it did not change a thing lol.

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[WJ43]

I came across this in another thread while searching for a solution to the sporadic notchy shifting in 1st to 3rd. For some reason Jeep uses automatic transmission fluid in their manual gearboxes. Another member on here suggested trying out a manual gearbox oil such as Royal Purple or Redline. Since it’s actually made for gear synchronizers, where ATF is not. As simple as it is to change, I figured what could it hurt. So I wheeled it in the shop after work and dropped the plug. I drained it into a clear washer fluid jug so I could inspect what came out. And just in case another mechanic couldn’t throw me the old “Bad Synchro” line… I believe it holds around 2.5 quarts. I filled ‘er back up with Redline MTL and hoped for the best. Some people say it made a difference in shifting. I can honestly say in my case it did not change a thing lol.

Thanks for the breakdown, I appreciate it. It's definitely something I'm going to keep in mind because I'm grabbing at straws Mine seems to act up more in warm weather than it does when it's cold. That combined with driving for a while and it becomes hit or miss if you're going to get it into gear.

The theory about the disc not releasing seems to make some sense because when it's hard to shift into gear feel that you're fighting the sinkers and sometimes I get this awful grind. If I didn't have other manual transmissions I would honestly wonder if it is user error.

 

[Reflektr]

Thanks for the breakdown, I appreciate it. It's definitely something I'm going to keep in mind because I'm grabbing at straws Mine seems to act up more in warm weather than it does when it's cold. That combined with driving for a while and it becomes hit or miss if you're going to get it into gear.

The theory about the disc not releasing seems to make some sense because when it's hard to shift into gear feel that you're fighting the sinkers and sometimes I get this awful grind. If I didn't have other manual transmissions I would honestly wonder if it is user error.

Oh you’re welcome. Hopefully it helps you out some. That is so weird because mine is more prone to acting up when it’s colder. I’ve never had trouble getting mine into gear, nor have I ever had it grind. Mine just either feels notchy at the stick in the lower gears, or I get major backlash in the driveline whenever it decides to do its thing.

What gets me is mine isn’t bad all the time. When it’s good, it’s actually pretty fun. Tonight on the way home for instance, I was able to drive it a little more sporty and it was fine. Like a manual should be lol. It’s aggravating dude. As a mechanic, I loathe the intermittent/inconsistent problems with a burning passion. It’s like enough of this pillow-talk damnit! Either break down so I can see what’s busted and fix you proper, or just sit and behave!

 

[WJ43]

Oh you’re welcome. Hopefully it helps you out some. That is so weird because mine is more prone to acting up when it’s colder. I’ve never had trouble getting mine into gear, nor have I ever had it grind. Mine just either feels notchy at the stick in the lower gears, or I get major backlash in the driveline whenever it decides to do its thing.

What gets me is mine isn’t bad all the time. When it’s good, it’s actually pretty fun. Tonight on the way home for instance, I was able to drive it a little more sporty and it was fine. Like a manual should be lol. It’s aggravating dude. As a mechanic, I loathe the intermittent/inconsistent problems with a burning passion. It’s like enough of this pillow-talk damnit! Either break down so I can see what’s busted and fix you proper, or just sit and behave!

or catch on fire so I can get an insurance pay out! I have been looking for reputable shops that will do a hemi swap with a stick, but the supply of getrag 236's seems to have dried up.

 

[eastern]

I came across this in another thread while searching for a solution to the sporadic notchy shifting in 1st to 3rd. For some reason Jeep uses automatic transmission fluid in their manual gearboxes. Another member on here suggested trying out a manual gearbox oil such as Royal Purple or Redline. Since it’s actually made for gear synchronizers, where ATF is not. As simple as it is to change, I figured what could it hurt. So I wheeled it in the shop after work and dropped the plug. I drained it into a clear washer fluid jug so I could inspect what came out. And just in case another mechanic couldn’t throw me the old “Bad Synchro” line… I believe it holds around 2.5 quarts. I filled ‘er back up with Redline MTL and hoped for the best. Some people say it made a difference in shifting. I can honestly say in my case it did not change a thing lol.

i think i know which thread you are referring to, and that is a completely separate issue relate to cold weather.


... matter of fact, you confirmed it " hat is so weird because mine is more prone to acting up when it’s colder"... Same symptoms, different problems.

 

[eastern]

So if someone has the issues with the ACT- groaning, not going into gear well... overall, what would others suggest?

I have the ACT Jp6... kit w/ Flywheel. I've been getting the groaning for a while and it's starting to get inconsistent going into 1/2/R. Jeep stats are in my signature, it is a daily driver.

i've read the changes CF have made, and I hear there are still issues on and off. What about South Bend? Is the redesigned south bend the silver bullet fix?

or should I just trade for an Auto at this point?

Take it apart and relube the output shaft splines. It should go back to feeling like new.

The other option would be finding a creative way to apply lube to the splines through the slave cylinder opening. That is the “how-to” I am currently trying to manifest in my head.

Grease breaks down and loses its properties over time. That appears to be the real issue. There are some good photos in this thread showing contaminated grease with clutch material. Heat expansion, aged grease, friction material in the mix, really a no brainer to put two and two together.

I have reread this thread several times, and it is impressive how badly it got derailed into the land of nonsense with “wrong grease” and “air in the hydraulics”.
OP is a joke too, started well but then got her clutch redone by ACT, then came back yapping about how amazing ACT and Dirk is. Right bruhhh who are you kidding.

I digress.
Mine has started doing the same thing again, both times at around 8000 miles.
For me and others, it seems to be an ongoing and repeating issue. Contacting ACT is like talking to a wall, they play dumb and avoid answering specifics like a plague, zero accountability.


As someone who has driven only manuals his whole life, i have seriously considered the auto.
It seems to be a really good transmission, plus some sources state that it can act like a manual by being in manual mode with proper controls. I am seriously considering it.

 

[RubiSc0tt]

Take it apart and relube the output shaft splines. It should go back to feeling like new.

The other option would be finding a creative way to apply lube to the splines through the slave cylinder opening. That is the “how-to” I am currently trying to manifest in my head.

Grease breaks down and loses its properties over time. That appears to be the real issue. There are some good photos in this thread showing contaminated grease with clutch material. Heat expansion, aged grease, friction material in the mix, really a no brainer to put two and two together.

I don't have a set up where I can do that. Begs the question: Why do you not have to do that with the stock one? And if this is a maintenance item, how viable of a solution is this? It's a huge pain in the ass and not something I want to deal with every 8000mi, or whatever, unless there's an easy way to shoot the lube through the slave cylinder opening (PHRASING).

Also begs the question: I had TJ's that I put over 100k on, wheeled hard, road tripped, daily drivers. Why did those transmissions never have issues? I've also been told the Jeep Manual transmission is decent, and it's not the actual transmission but the clutch that is the problem.

Mine has started doing the same thing again, both times at around 8000 miles.
For me and others, it seems to be an ongoing and repeating issue. Contacting ACT is like talking to a wall, they play dumb and avoid answering specifics like a plague, zero accountability.

This is my concern, and seems to be everything I've heard from others here. ACT will work with you on a new clutch disk, etc. but they won't actually offer an other solutions when the new one does the same thing. Dude was on the forums for a while and pretty active... wondering what happened. I will probably send them an email but if I get the runaround I'm not even going to bother wasting any more time. If you can't stand behind your product and attempt to change/ update things to solve the problems it seems everyone is having, I'm not sticking with your product. Full stop.

As someone who has driven only manuals his whole life, i have seriously considered the auto.
It seems to be a really good transmission, plus some sources state that it can act like a manual by being in manual mode with proper controls. I am seriously considering it.

This is pretty much where I'm at; I had a an 06 Charger Daytona with the Auto-stick. That manual mode wasn't great, but I'm sure transmissions have gotten better. The 8 speed I had in my loaner back in 2020 was fantastic. It didn't feel like any of the shitty automatics I've driven in the past, and it felt better than my current manual. Maybe that's the ticket. I don't want to spend $2-3k on another clutch that's going to have issues in a year or so.

 

[RubiSc0tt]

emailed ACT, they basically told me I would have to remove and send the clutch in for testing. I told them I can't, that this is my daily driver, and that I'm looking for info to help zero in on this problem- not a refund. Exactly as other forum users said it would go.

I'm going to talk to my shop but I also have the feeling this is going to lead to me trading on an auto. I really don't want to deal with this hassle for the life of this Jeep.

 

[eastern]

I don't have a set up where I can do that. Begs the question: Why do you not have to do that with the stock one? And if this is a maintenance item, how viable of a solution is this? It's a huge pain in the ass and not something I want to deal with every 8000mi, or whatever, unless there's an easy way to shoot the lube through the slave cylinder opening (PHRASING).

Also begs the question: I had TJ's that I put over 100k on, wheeled hard, road tripped, daily drivers. Why did those transmissions never have issues? I've also been told the Jeep Manual transmission is decent, and it's not the actual transmission but the clutch that is the problem.


This is my concern, and seems to be everything I've heard from others here. ACT will work with you on a new clutch disk, etc. but they won't actually offer an other solutions when the new one does the same thing. Dude was on the forums for a while and pretty active... wondering what happened. I will probably send them an email but if I get the runaround I'm not even going to bother wasting any more time. If you can't stand behind your product and attempt to change/ update things to solve the problems it seems everyone is having, I'm not sticking with your product. Full stop.


This is pretty much where I'm at; I had a an 06 Charger Daytona with the Auto-stick. That manual mode wasn't great, but I'm sure transmissions have gotten better. The 8 speed I had in my loaner back in 2020 was fantastic. It didn't feel like any of the shitty automatics I've driven in the past, and it felt better than my current manual. Maybe that's the ticket. I don't want to spend $2-3k on another clutch that's going to have issues in a year or so.

I swapped into JL from TJ, I am just as confuzled as you are.

I have seen some reports of stock doing the same, but lack lots of detail and cases are rare. Only thing I can think of is OEM sloppy 2 piece design that is less effected by heat soak and other tolerance related things. If OEM is the only way to go, a good alternative would be to regear axles to a lower ratio in order to compensate for negatives of low mass flywheel, but going this route cost $$$.

It sucks, and there is no good answer or solution. ACT and Centerforce are the one who should be providing answers and solutions, but they chose to do what they do.

Best i can say is that ill be looking for a lawyer to take on this case, and 3rd party experts to document this matter. When or how long will this take, i cant tell. Id like to start a class action on this so it would benefit everyone, but i am clueless when it comes to legal matters. So maybe, something, someday.

 

[RubiSc0tt]

So this is finally getting to the point where it's every intersection. I've got some decisions to make.

I checked a few FB groups and people have said that McLeod and the updated South Bend seem to be the best ones.

Has anyone had either of these for 2+ years/ 30k mi? Looking to see if this will solve this issue for good. I have no problem replacing it and keeping the Jeep, but as I said previously I really don't want to have to do some intensive maintenance every year or shell out thousands in another few years to replace it again.

 

[bjm00se]

I just turned over 70,000 mi on my factory stock clutch, no service or recall or replacement performed. Still, it's pretty much inevitable at a traffic light that coming out of neutral, I'll need to bump it to second, and then into first, as attempting to go from neutral to first directly will usually hang up.

Doing this is just part of my natural habit arm motion now. IIRC, my Tacoma with a 5 speed had a similar thing.

My guess is that first-gear synchros wear easily, but that's just a wild guess I pull out of my armpit.

Anyhow, I don't plan to do anything about this. I've just adjusted my driving habits around it.

 

[WJ43]

So this is finally getting to the point where it's every intersection. I've got some decisions to make.

I checked a few FB groups and people have said that McLeod and the updated South Bend seem to be the best ones.

Has anyone had either of these for 2+ years/ 30k mi? Looking to see if this will solve this issue for good. I have no problem replacing it and keeping the Jeep, but as I said previously I really don't want to have to do some intensive maintenance every year or shell out thousands in another few years to replace it again.

What I am finding works pretty good is giving a bit of throttle before trying to engage the gear. My sequence is clutch in - shifter in neutral, - rev engine up to something between 1200 to 1800 RPM and engage first gear. There's a sweet spot in there and the shifter just slides right in. This isn't like a power shift where the Jeep jumps or anything, the clutch still appears to be working just fine and even giving a ton of throttle say 4,000 RPM, it doesn't creep or anything. It's just weird that you need to give throttle input to get it in gear. I'm not sure if it's some sort of synchro / shaft input issue but at least the thing is drivable and I'm not panicking at green lights trying to get the fucker in gear anymore.

 

[GabeBoyTheGreat]

This is purely speculation, but I think there is a slight possibility that Jeep is working on an upgraded clutch for the 2027 Gladiator. My speculation is based on the 6-speed concept Wrangler at EJS as well as Jeep's comments at EJS: "We have another car that looks like a Wrangler that's getting its manual back. Stay tuned."

Most people think they are referring to the Gladiator in this quote, but why bring it back? Even as a die-hard manual fan, if I were buying a truck, I would not be able to live with the 6MT in the Gladiator. The 6MT is barely adequate in a Wrangler with its lightweight clutch. Even with 4.10 gears, I struggle with backing up an 800 lb trailer with my Wrangler, let alone trying with a heavier Gladiator and a 4,000 lb trailer. Plus, it would have to compete with the Tacoma, which has a 6,400 lb towing capacity with the 6MT vs. the Gladiator which is only 4,000 lb with the 6MT.

So why bring it back, unless they are upgrading it? CAFE credits for ESS have been removed, so maybe we will see a Gladiator without ESS, which would open the door for a heavier flywheel from the factory? We have already seen Ram announce new vehicles without ESS, and honestly the brand as a whole has been making pretty bold moves recently.

I know I am being quite optimistic here, but I don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility. If the Gladiator gets an upgrade clutch, then it should be available to purchase from MOPAR for our Wranglers.

 

[Toycrusher]

The issue is that the input shaft bearings are too good. There is no drag from the pilot bearing/bushing (as it doesn't exist) and the input shaft bearings themselves are too free spinning.

When you push in the clutch, there is not enough resistance to break the friction holding the disc to the motor. Therefore, it doesnt slow down, and the synchros can't engage the gear.

If you blip the throttle hard, that will break the friction. If you slide into a taller gear, it will break the friction. But on its own, the input shaft does not have enough drag to break the friction and slowdown on its own

 

[WJ43]

The issue is that the input shaft bearings are too good. There is no drag from the pilot bearing/bushing (as it doesn't exist) and the input shaft bearings themselves are too free spinning.

When you push in the clutch, there is not enough resistance to break the friction holding the disc to the motor. Therefore, it doesnt slow down, and the synchros can't engage the gear.

If you blip the throttle hard, that will break the friction. If you slide into a taller gear, it will break the friction. But on its own, the input shaft does not have enough drag to break the friction and slowdown on its own

This is a pretty good theory, which would explain why there is no other evidence of the pressure plate being engaged. The only question I have is why would this be temperature dependent.

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