Jeep died in traffic

[MattLaurence]

@MattLaurence Matt:
This said, I am still curious to me why turning the ESS off button off, i.e. allowing ESS to possibly engage, caused your JL to crap out. I say this because this button being off is only one of many conditions that must be met by the vehicle's diagnostic for an ESS event to occur, not the least of such other events being the vehicle being motionless, the brake pedal pressed hard enough, the ESS battery having sufficient voltage, not being on a hill, the steering wheel not being turned, and others.

So that is exactly the scenario, i was baffled by the precipitating factor which was simply engaging ESS. I was driving, going 20 or so mph, and coming to a stoplight I pressed the ESS button, which would have made it ACTIVE. I was driving straight, I had the clutch pressed in as I was coasting (which should prevent ESS from engaging), and the AC was off as I just had the windows open.

As soon as ESS was made active, the engine cut out and began clicking and I was dead in the water.

I daily drive the JL which is why I have 100k miles, but it is concerning that if the batteries are truly to blame, there are no subtle signs they are getting weaker, like a longer or slower crank at startup, headlight brightness that fluctuates, etc.

Anyhow, hopefully the issue is resolved. I'll post a pic of the work that was done by the dealer for reference for anyone else in a similar situation.

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[MattLaurence]

@MattLaurence

$700 being charged by a Jeep dealer for that work is about the norm. Actually, most dealers will charge around $800 +-.

I figured as much... it's pricey, and I could certainly do it myself for cheaper, but there are times when circumstances dictate someone else should do it. Just lucky I wasn't towing the camper down a winding road when it happened!

 

[MattLaurence]

Matt:

Please resolve yourself to the following:

Some owners, in large part depending on driving habits, will simply not get ESS to engage unless they trickle charge both batteries while the vehicle is at rest. While such actions can prolong the life of the batteries, it's also cumbersome for those who'd just as soon not use ESS and can't trickle charge (e.g. park away from 120V A/C).

That said, as both batteries are connected in parallel at all times but an instant at cold crank, and during ESS events, placing a trickle charger's leads on the main battery will trickle charge both batteries.

I'll look into getting a trickle charger. I figured since I drove it everyday that batteries were getting a constant use and no need to charge. But there have been times where I haven't driven for 3+ weeks, so I think i should charge them in times like that.

 

[mwilk012]

700 is a fair price. The real problem is that you’ll be stuck with more Mopar batteries.

 

[MattLaurence]

700 is a fair price. The real problem is that you’ll be stuck with more Mopar batteries.

??

 

[Moblrn]

I'll look into getting a trickle charger. I figured since I drove it everyday that batteries were getting a constant use and no need to charge. But there have been times where I haven't driven for 3+ weeks, so I think i should charge them in times like that.

A trickle charger will do nothing to help your situation unless your daily drives are less than 5 miles between starts. If that's the case it might. The ESS should not engage ever under those driving conditions. Not sure what relay they replaced, but it may have been the cause of the failure to keep running.

Rod

 

[Petey]

@MattLaurence Matt:

I don't disagree with anyone suggesting the batteries be replaced. If they were newer I might suggest the possibly cheaper independent, load testing of each first, but even if they passed this test with flying colors their age suggests their replacement, as such a test might fail in the near future.

This said, I am still curious to me why turning the ESS off button off, i.e. allowing ESS to possibly engage, caused your JL to crap out. I say this because this button being off is only one of many conditions that must be met by the vehicle's diagnostic for an ESS event to occur, not the least of such other events being the vehicle being motionless, the brake pedal pressed hard enough, the ESS battery having sufficient voltage, not being on a hill, the steering wheel not being turned, and others. Your OP suggests that you were moving with the engine on an alternator working at the time the ESS button was pressed.

Let us know how this turns out for you.

P.S. hadn't read your prior post before posting--thought it might be more than the batteries

Also , befudled here it makes so little sense

 

[Petey]

So that is exactly the scenario, i was baffled by the precipitating factor which was simply engaging ESS. I was driving, going 20 or so mph, and coming to a stoplight I pressed the ESS button, which would have made it ACTIVE. I was driving straight, I had the clutch pressed in as I was coasting (which should prevent ESS from engaging), and the AC was off as I just had the windows open.

As soon as ESS was made active, the engine cut out and began clicking and I was dead in the water.

I daily drive the JL which is why I have 100k miles, but it is concerning that if the batteries are truly to blame, there are no subtle signs they are getting weaker, like a longer or slower crank at startup, headlight brightness that fluctuates, etc.

Anyhow, hopefully the issue is resolved. I'll post a pic of the work that was done by the dealer for reference for anyone else in a similar situation.

"headlight brightness that fluctuate" alternator issue?

 

[Jebiruph]

Well, I heard from the dealer, and it's gonna be a fix to the tune of $700...... sheesh.... live and learn I suppose. I've never had to take it anywhere since the warranty got used up, and I was away from my home base so I chose what seemed like a good dealer in Ohio. They've been responsive and helpful, and it should be back tomorrow. Also I drank at least $20 of free coffee and hot chocolate there.

They are replacing both batteries and a fuse relay that they said was "not serviceable", they were unable to elaborate further. I'll update when I find out more. They also insisted that my alternator was an aftermarket alternator, and that's likely what caused the issue. I gently corrected them that I had it ordered from the factory, and the alternator in the Jeep was the slightly larger one included with the tow package back at the end of 2018.

So, moving forward I'll do some reading and do more battery maintenance on my own. I'll just add it to all the fluid changes, tire rotations, and all the other little maintenance/ repairs I already do.

Thanks for all the input on this!

I'm not sure what the fuse relay is, but if it's the N3 fuse, it gets blown when the positive battery cables are removed from the main battery and allowed to short to ground. The blown N3 fuse isolates the system electronics and aux battery from the alternator and main battery which leads to a disable vehicle once the aux battery is drained.

 

[Fudster]

I'll look into getting a trickle charger. I figured since I drove it everyday that batteries were getting a constant use and no need to charge. But there have been times where I haven't driven for 3+ weeks, so I think i should charge them in times like that.

It's not just frequency of use but longevity of your trips. Nothing I suspect you don't know, cold cranking taxes batteries just as driving restores them via the alternator. Given the way the JL was designed, a driver who takes many small trips may not be giving the alternator enough time to charge, particularly that ESS battery, which has to be pretty full for ESS to engage.

Sure, bigger alternators/batteries could have made a more reliable ESS system under all conditions, but at the expense of the very MPGs Stellantis incorporated an ESS system to save.

I'm sure the engineers sought to not only strike a balance here, but one that saved fuel during normal driving over the expense of greater fuel consumption and a more active ESS system--no doubt a product of working around the EPA's ESS system rules, which say nothing about the reliability of the ESS system once the vehicle's in the owner's hands.

 

[slowpoke387]

So would that aftermarket start/stop product help this sort of thing?

 

[Fudster]

...there have been times where I haven't driven for 3+ weeks

A trickle charger will do nothing to help your situation unless your daily drives

?

 

[MattLaurence]

Final update: got the Jeep back, runs great. They are stating that it was an "open Z fuse array" that caused the issue, but both batteries were near the end of their life, i.e. tested weak. So, mystery solved I guess. I'm going to do more reading on this Z fuse array....

Unfortunately, they hit me with the Y07 clutch recall as well. I've been dodging it so long that I forgot they would just go ahead and do it unless I specifically mention for them not to. Oh well, we will see if I notice anything significant

 

[Jebiruph]

Final update: got the Jeep back, runs great. They are stating that it was an "open Z fuse array" that caused the issue, but both batteries were near the end of their life, i.e. tested weak. So, mystery solved I guess. I'm going to do more reading on this Z fuse array....

Unfortunately, they hit me with the Y07 clutch recall as well. I've been dodging it so long that I forgot they would just go ahead and do it unless I specifically mention for them not to. Oh well, we will see if I notice anything significant

See my post #24, the issue was a blown N3 fuse.

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