Freedom Winch Line?

[Col_Sanders]

I like the idea of having a soft shackle at the end of the winch line so I wouldn't have to worry about some pecker head stealing my $150 flat link. BUT I would still want to carry a tree strap and soft shackle at least.

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[Vinman]

I like how every time a new product/idea comes out it’s met with constant reasons why it won’t work.

A couple of years ago I posted in numerous forums about a “new” aluminum snatch ring I received from Scotland. Every single thread was met with constant negativity about how it would never work yet two years later a number on companies now manufacture and sell them here in North America.

Same thing happened when synthetic rope hit the market in the early 2000’s.

I like the idea of having a ”soft shackle” hardwired into the winch rope (although a tree saver is still required) as it would reduce the number of connection points in a rigging operation. And anybody in the rigging world knows the less connections the better.

 

[Wixo]

Some problems for sure but a neat idea. I would think this would be something like the king of the hammers could use for speed and less parts. It’s not for me and I am sure others have already done this themselves who are good with rope weaving.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

And anybody in the rigging world knows the less connections the better.

This is true. Also true is that anybody in the rigging world knows that tying a knot in a load line is not ideal. And that splitting a line in the manner done here weakens it significantly and makes the line’s load rating worthless. And that using equipment of unknown strength is a recipe for disaster. Even if it is “proven” by raising the front end of a Jeep off of the ground.

Soft shackles are not something that’s obsolete or broken and needs fixing IMO. A tree saver strap is not something that should be discarded because it serves a very useful purpose IMO, one not adequately addressed by this “new” non-invention (that has actually been on the market for some time already).

Want to fix something that can be improved? Since open metal hooks are widely being replaced by closed metal thimbles as a safer alternative, design and engineer a better non metallic soft alternative to that. I’d be interested.

 

[BlueYetiJeep]

Creative but not too creative. K72 Rope by Guardian of Bravery was the very first one to add an industrial coating to the stopper knot.

Like so:

Doing recovery on vehicles has many many variables. One single winch line can't recover all. First of all, the weight ratio of vehicles vary, the angle that the recovery may be at might need multiple snatch blocks, soft shackles/D-Ring shackles etc. Too many variables. Having only one which line as the only source of recovery would set you to be under prepared. What about if that which lines breaks. Do you have other sources of recovery gear to get you out?

 

[Bobbys]

I like how every time a new product/idea comes out it’s met with constant reasons why it won’t work.

A couple of years ago I posted in numerous forums about a “new” aluminum snatch ring I received from Scotland. Every single thread was met with constant negativity about how it would never work yet two years later a number on companies now manufacture and sell them here in North America.

Same thing happened when synthetic rope hit the market in the early 2000’s.

I like the idea of having a ”soft shackle” hardwired into the winch rope (although a tree saver is still required) as it would reduce the number of connection points in a rigging operation. And anybody in the rigging world knows the less connections the better.

I like the idea of the line. I think its pretty slick, and all the would be home schooled engineers on this site are clueless. Yes knots weaken ropes, sure.
But there are ways around that.

I would like to try one one of these

 

[Headbarcode]

I like the idea of the line. I think its pretty slick, and all the would be home schooled engineers on this site are clueless. Yes knots weaken ropes, sure.
But there are ways around that.

I would like to try one one of these

Well, you can't really assume to know the professional background and skill set of others without including specifics. After all, your choice of words is indicative of having a broad body of knowledge of engineering that could actually help the "clueless".

What's a way around a weak point in a rigging setup?

 

[Bobbys]

Well, you can't really assume to know the professional background and skill set of others without including specifics. After all, your choice of words is indicative of having a broad body of knowledge of engineering that could actually help the "clueless".

What's a way around a weak point in a rigging setup?

Probably because i have a phd in engineering

 

[DadJokes]

Probably because i have a phd in engineering

What’s your professional suggestion for the safest and simplest product that could be produced?

 

[entropy]

What’s your professional suggestion for the safest and simplest product that could be produced?

A beer. Everyone needs a beer to ctfo.

 

[Headbarcode]

Probably because i have a phd in engineering

That's awesome, and I say that genuinely. Many here are always seeking solid information, but it can be difficult for some to decipher solid information from someone's guess work. It wouldn't go unappreciated if you shared your expertise on any topic that approached your wheelhouse.

 

[Bobbys]

That's awesome, and I say that genuinely. Many here are always seeking solid information, but it can be difficult for some to decipher solid information from someone's guess work. It wouldn't go unappreciated if you shared your expertise on any topic that approached your wheelhouse.

Appreciate that

I must admit , my area of expertise is in electrical design so..... my mechanical knowledge is limited. However, I have years of formal training in dynamics , thermal dynamics , physics and mathematics which do lend themselves to a wide variety of use.

I am also NOT in academia which is where most post docs end up but out in industry instead.

The question in my humble opinion becomes the following. What level of engineering are you trying to achieve. At some point you have to be willing to say it’s good enough. I tend to analyze things down to electron levels in my day to day literally.

And the point of me saying that is, even doing that kind of analysis often lends to the wrong answer. How do we know we got the wrong answer? Well we test teat test actual systems.

My point being is there is no substitute for physical testing in this case.

There is an argument to be made that this device does not replace a tree hugger because of its narrow width. This is a simple function of surface area and PSI on the tree.



But I am also of the opinion that if this device was properly tested in controlled environments to include thermal and what is usually called beginning of life and end of life testing I would feel justified and safe using it.

I think he has a really neat product here. Also as a life long rock climber we talk about knots in various materials ad nauseam. The general consensus is that although knots do reduce strength , if a material sill has a safety factor of 5x or even 10x with a knot in it against its rating then it’s considered ok. In climbing knots offer additional protection such as redundancy which is not the case here.

The question is, how was This device tested?
I doubt we will ever know but playing devils advocate we don’t know that with most things in our daily lives and yet we still trust them

I guess my point is let’s not jump to conclusions that this thing is crap just yet. The response in you tube comments is overwhelmingly positive.

Will it work.... time will tell
Also in regards to the cost, yea it’s spendy but producing things like this in the US is expensive which is why most of our crap
Comes from China. Sad but true

 

[LoganDzwon]

Bubba rope makes something similar. It’s a great idea, but he is using it in some ways I would highly recommend against.
(1) Synthetic like should never be put against a corner like that.. those bumpers need hard shackles attached.
(2) a tree saver is flat webbing that does not stretch. You put it around the tree and as you suck up the slack in the line the saver will shift on the tree. This can damaged a synthetic line.

also, unless he is trying to pull the tree down, the tree strap should be as low to the ground and roots as possible.

 

[LoganDzwon]

What's a way around a weak point in a rigging setup?

Well, leverage by adding more rope in parallel. In a soft shackle under load you have four lines of rope supporting the load. As mentioned, under the knot is a weak point, but also where the line is kinked is a weak points too. All in all, testing shows that soft shackles have a break strengths about 1.75x the line strength.

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