FORM Kicks In When Battery Reaches < 1%

[Fatback]

Hi,

I've seen a lot of posts regarding fuel oil refresh mode kicking in due to internal engine/external temperature related reasons, gas being stale or engine oil being diluted with gasoline. I have a situation where it always kick in once the battery reaches < 1%. It goes away when the battery is charged. Has anyone encountered this? The service people at the dealership seem flabbergasted and though it was due to not have ZB7 software update for loss of automotive power, but even after the update it was still happening. I did notice however, that after the update whenever battery dropped to <1% and FORM kicked in, if I turn off the vehicle and I start it up later, it would be at 1% but eventually deplete to <1% and then initiate FORM.

Fatback

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[Dabrakeman]

When battery goes to <1% the ICE usually turns on. Normal first stage of FORM is the Jeep enters FORM whenever the engine turns on, whether from battery depletion or heavy acceleration or switching into E-Save etc... Sure it is not just this normal function?

 

[Fatback]

When battery goes to <1% the ICE usually turns on. Normal first stage of FORM is the Jeep enters FORM whenever the engine turns on, whether from battery depletion or heavy acceleration or switching into E-Save etc... Sure it is not just this normal function?

No it's not normal function. Someone responded in the wrangler 4xe forum post to my question. There are several stages or steps, when FORM is caused by oil dilution. I'm at step 1 as described in this link due to my frequent short trips: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/4xe-form-fuel-in-oil.91728/

 

[BXFXJeep]

When the battery is <1% the 4xe is out of electric range, and the gas engine will fire up, when you charge it up the electric range is available, the gas engine isn't required, this is normal operation, it's not FORM.

 

[Fatback]

When the battery is <1% the 4xe is out of electric range, and the gas engine will fire up, when you charge it up the electric range is available, the gas engine isn't required, this is normal operation, it's not FORM.

Unfortunately, in my case it is FORM. Message notification appears in messages and the ding sound occurs. The link I included above explains the situation.

 

[alphawolff]

Unfortunately, in my case it is FORM. Message notification appears in messages and the ding sound occurs. The link I included above explains the situation.

Let me clarify here.

When you're under 1% battery, the ICE kicks on (as it should). The issue you're describing is the EVIC is displaying the vehicle is in FORM. When you re-charge the vehicle, the FORM message dissapears.


If what I said above is correct then your cluster is simply displaying an inaccurate message and you're not actually going into FORM. FORM would never clear from simply recharging the battery. I suspect the ICE is kicking on and some software bug is causing the cluster to display the FORM message erroneously. Not really anything the dealer can do about it until engineering puts out its nth update to fix it.

 

[ceddy]

Does the jeep still operate normally when the ICE kicks in? In other words, does it cut on and off, do you still get to coast on ev power and such. If it’s really in FORM the engine always runs.

 

[Fatback]

Does the jeep still operate normally when the ICE kicks in? In other words, does it cut on and off, do you still get to coast on ev power and such. If it’s really in FORM the engine always runs.

Once the ICE kicks in its always on for the duration of the of the drive until I turn it off. When I would start the jeep again later, it usually would have 1% so I would get some electric range, but once it ran down to <1%, the FORM message would kick in again along ith the ICE. The link I provided seems to be accurate as described as step 1. A few weeks ago, even if the battery was at 1% or higher, due to charging, it would still remain in FORM and not make use of the electric power. As I continued to drive in ICE for longer periods, eventually I was able start it up one day and make use of the electric range, which is the situation now. Basically, I was in step 2 as described in the link but was able to get out of it by burning off some of the gas contaminated in the oil.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Once the ICE kicks in its always on for the duration of the of the drive until I turn it off. When I would start the jeep again later, it usually would have 1% so I would get some electric range, but once it ran down to <1%, the FORM message would kick in again along ith the ICE. The link I provided seems to be accurate as described as step 1. A few weeks ago, even if the battery was at 1% or higher, due to charging, it would still remain in FORM and not make use of the electric power. As I continued to drive in ICE for longer periods, eventually I was able start it up one day and make use of the electric range, which is the situation now. Basically, I was in step 2 as described in the link but was able to get out of it by burning off some of the gas contaminated in the oil.

This post is different from the initial post.

You need to know why you are in getting into FORM

If you are regularly running out of electric range, then driving on gas for only a couple of miles, you can probably be getting into FORM from oil dilution, you need to figure out how you can prevent this from happening.

If you have a stale gas situation, electric mode comes back intermittently, but it doesn't seem to completely clear FORM, burn off all the stale gas down to fumes.

Anytime I needed to run gas I would either use the manual shifter or e-save charge, that way I can quickly get the oil temperature above 99C and keep it there.

I also never use hybrid mode unless I'm on a long highway trip, I mostly use Electric mode.

Hybrid mode tend to start the gas engine, which can lead to oil dilution.

I almost never use gas on a regular basis, this has been going on for 3 years.

 

[Dabrakeman]

OK you can believe me or not believe me. This is normal FORM behavior in stage 1. You are in stage 1 of FORM. This is exactly what it does. When the ICE engine comes on FOR ANY REASON it will not let you back into electric mode until the next ignition cycle (if you have battery life left).

 

[Fatback]

This post is different from the initial post.

You need to know why you are in getting into FORM

If you are regularly running out of electric range, then driving on gas for only a couple of miles, you can probably be getting into FORM from oil dilution, you need to figure out how you can prevent this from happening.

If you have a stale gas situation, electric mode comes back intermittently, but it doesn't seem to completely clear FORM, burn off all the stale gas down to fumes.

Anytime I needed to run gas I would either use the manual shifter or e-save charge, that way I can quickly get the oil temperature above 99C and keep it there.

I also never use hybrid mode unless I'm on a long highway trip, I mostly use Electric mode.

Hybrid mode tend to start the gas engine, which can lead to oil dilution.

I almost never use gas on a regular basis, this has been going on for 3 years.

Thanks BFFXJeep, I followed your lead and drove around on E-save mode was able to get the oil temperature between 96-99 Celsius and then continung the drive for another 25 minutes. It kicked me out of step 1 of FORM. Going forward l'll be using Electric mode for my short commutes and switching to E-save when I run out of juice, and limiting hybrid mode for longer trips.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Thanks BFFXJeep, I followed your lead and drove around on E-save mode was able to get the oil temperature between 96-99 Celsius and then continung the drive for another 25 minutes. It kicked me out of step 1 of FORM. Going forward l'll be using Electric mode for my short commutes and switching to E-save when I run out of juice, and limiting hybrid mode for longer trips.

e-save tends to burn more gas, hybrid mode with manual shifting is an option when you are out of electric range, you only need to up shift, it will automatically downshift....

Manual shifting can be a bit annoying though, because if you put it in neutral or reverse it will cut the engine as it does the stop|start behavior.

All in all I rarely ever drive using gas so some e-save doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things.

 

[Dabrakeman]

I too have modified my driving style having suffered from FORM last winter. Obviously avoiding the short ICE usages is paramount. Part of that is making sure the mode is in electric and not accidentally just in hybrid when I start out. So annoying when a little too much acceleration starts the engine and you then notice you were in hybrid, not electric. The other being more usage of manual 8. IF I know my drive is going to be longer than the range of the battery alone M8 can extend it significantly and allow me optimal mpg while keeping the engine running and oil hot enough to avoid FORM. All becomes more difficult in the winter so will see if I can stay out this year.

 

[Fatback]

I too have modified my driving style having suffered from FORM last winter. Obviously avoiding the short ICE usages is paramount. Part of that is making sure the mode is in electric and not accidentally just in hybrid when I start out. So annoying when a little too much acceleration starts the engine and you then notice you were in hybrid, not electric. The other being more usage of manual 8. IF I know my drive is going to be longer than the range of the battery alone M8 can extend it significantly and allow me optimal mpg while keeping the engine running and oil hot enough to avoid FORM. All becomes more difficult in the winter so will see if I can stay out this year.

Yeah. I heard that there is a software update that will latch on to the previous setting (electric or e-save) of your last drive so that it doesn't default to hybrid on next start up. I'm requesting that from the dealership tomorrow.

For driving in manual mode with hybrid, isn't it recommended that manual only be switched on when the engine is warmed up? I've seen videos where people would drive in e-save first to get the temperatures up before switching to hybrid along with manual.

 

[Dabrakeman]

The update you are talking about will retain electric or hybrid mode as you finished your last drive, but, will not retain E-Save mode if that might have been your intent. IF you finished in Esave it will start up in hybrid.

IF I am switching from Electric to manual mode during a trip I will first switch to E-Save. When you switch to E-save the computer will automatically limit the ICE usage percentage and keep the rpm down until the engine is sufficiently warmed up and then it will quickly ramp up ICE usage. I usually do it on the level at constant speed, not accelerating. Once I see that the engine oil temperature is coming up after 5 minutes or so I can safely switch over to manual mode. It will often still initially put you in a lower gear than ideal (i.e. M6 or M7) but usually if the engine is warmed up enough it will let you immediately switch to M8 (assuming you are travelling fast enough, i.e ~50mph+).

Another trick particularly in the winter (as well as during off road usage) is to switch your E-Save over to charge which will prevent the engine from shutting off as it will still do in Esave non charge mode at stops and downgrades. Off road you want to do this if you are crossing deeper water at the very least but also is just good to avoid the unpredictability of the engine unexpectantly shutting off. In the winter you may be trying to keep the engine running without stop starts while getting the oil temperature up to help stay out of or get out of FORM.

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