Don't know what to do. 4xe thoughts??

[NWJeepr]

lets leave it to others to decide which is which.

What? You're not making any sense. Who is deciding what?

Plug in charger is owned by fossil fuels? This has been explained, see above.

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[yokramer]

also notice how you are still wrong here. you just said:

"YOU are welcome to stick to your fossil-fuel burning vehicle as your only choice and not buy an EV."

you still fail to see that the plug in charger is powered by fossil fuels *in some places and if you dont have solar on your house

ftfy

 

[Brad Hearing]

What? You're not making any sense. Who is deciding what?

Plug in charger is owned by fossil fuels? This has been explained, see above.

oh man. just stop now.

plug in chargers are not owned by fossil fuels. they are powered by them. almost in totality.

 

[Wbino]

Woah hey there, you expect him to be able to extrapolate information from a statement?

There you go making me look up words.......Damn you....

 

[yokramer]

There you go making me look up words.......Damn you....

 

[NWJeepr]

oh man. just stop now.

plug in chargers are not owned by fossil fuels. they are powered by them. almost in totality.

But that is what you said, "plug in chargers are owned by fossil fuels". (Actually, you did a ninja-edit to change "owned" to "powered". Don't think I don't notice these things.

And I don't dispute that fossil fuel is used to generate electricity. See post(s) that you clearly missed above.

 

[Brad Hearing]

But that is what you said, "plug in chargers are owned by fossil fuels". (Actually, you did a ninja-edit to change "owned" to "powered". Don't think I don't notice these things.

And I don't dispute that fossil fuel is used to generate electricity. See post(s) that you clearly missed above.

ok. so lets get serious, you and I:

if you dont dispute that fossil fuel is used to generate electricity,

AND you claim that an EV will free you from being a hostage to oil companies which are fossil fuel based,

then how do you square this? seems to me all youve done is change the fuel tank for a battery. the ultimate source of the fuel (fossil) is still in play.

while you could claim that wind power and solar are a part its literally only a fraction compared to the totality of energy generation being primarily from fossil fuels and not enough to warrant such a change.

dont forget the energy loss by wire transmission from the powerplant to the house (or electrical charging station)

also please consider the environmental costs of creating the battery then disposing of it years later ONLY if environmental causes are part of your claim.

I ask again: how do you square this?

 

[Wbino]

ok. so lets get serious, you and I:

if you dont dispute that fossil fuel is used to generate electricity,

AND you claim that an EV will free you from being a hostage to oil companies which are fossil fuel based,

then how do you square this? seems to me all youve done is change the fuel tank for a battery. the ultimate source of the fuel (fossil) is still in play.

while you could claim that wind power and solar are a part its literally only a fraction compared to the totality of energy generation being primarily from fossil fuels and not enough to warrant such a change.

dont forget the energy loss by wire transmission from the powerplant to the house (or electrical charging station)

also please consider the environmental costs of creating the battery then disposing of it years later ONLY if environmental causes are part of your claim.

I ask again: how do you square this?

What is your vested interest in being against anything EV?
Do you work or make money on fossil fuels or their byproducts?
Why are you so against clean air? Have you sat behind a vehicle's exhaust and find that more pleasurable than being behind a EV with no exhaust?
Are you against EV vehicles only or do you hate solar and wind power as well?

 

[Brad Hearing]

What is your vested interest in being against anything EV?
Do you work or make money on fossil fuels or their byproducts?
Why are you so against clean air? Have you sat behind a vehicle's exhaust and find that more pleasurable than being behind a EV with no exhaust?
Are you against EV vehicles only or do you hate solar and wind power as well?

i wont respond to this other than to acknowledge it. im waiting for NWjeeper.

 

[Wbino]

i wont respond to this other than to acknowledge it. im waiting for NWjeeper.

I guess you ran out of gas.

 

[cansberry]

Global EV sales is basically all chyna, and chyna have been caught fudging the EV sales data, well because fudging data is the new normal these days, no one looks beyond the fancy graphics displaying %

Basically the government subsidize the new EV sales, then these EVs hit the used car market with ZERO miles on the odometer.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/ev-sales-by-country

And Uncle Sam tossed railways out and subsidized cars in the 1950s. That's the nature of things. The US used to have the most well developed rail system in the world, but the big 3 needed a better share prices so out the window. China couldn't compete on ICE so they aggressively developed their EV capabilities. Nobody is objective about any in how they think through any of this though.

 

[Brad Hearing]

I guess you ran out of gas.

if @nwjeeper doesnt respond then we know whats what.

 

[NWJeepr]

ok. so lets get serious, you and I:

if you dont dispute that fossil fuel is used to generate electricity,

AND you claim that an EV will free you from being a hostage to oil companies which are fossil fuel based,

then how do you square this? seems to me all youve done is change the fuel tank for a battery. the ultimate source of the fuel (fossil) is still in play.

while you could claim that wind power and solar are a part its literally only a fraction compared to the totality of energy generation being primarily from fossil fuels and not enough to warrant such a change.

dont forget the energy loss by wire transmission from the powerplant to the house (or electrical charging station)

also please consider the environmental costs of creating the battery then disposing of it years later ONLY if environmental causes are part of your claim.

I ask again: how do you square this?

The first problem is that environmental causes aren't the only part of my claim. I don't dispute that EV's pollute. I do maintain they pollute in different ways, in some ways that are less detrimental than air pollution. First and foremost, we bought an EV because both of us are car enthusiasts and we wanted to also experience EV.

My statement about being a hostage to oil companies is that without EV's we don't have choice. In vehicles, in propulsion methods, in spreading out personal environmental impact, and, lifestyle. I can charge at home, at work, on the road, and in a pinch, I can convert gas to electricity but I can't do that in reverse to power a gas car.

Renewable energy is or isn't a significant portion of total energy production depending on region. In my region, we actually get a significant amount of energy from hydro power. I also frequent southern CA a lot, and in some regions, they actually have a surplus of solar energy. And that's just the public grid. People have options if they want to charge their vehicle from solar; it's totally doable in many regions of our country. Choice. It's a good thing.

Assume 0% renewable energy in your grid. It's still more efficient (and cleaner) to burn things like natural gas to create electricity to power a car. ICE loses so much energy to heat/friction and noise, they mostly don't run at an RPM of maximum efficiency, warmup cycles produce dirtier emissions. While combustion is inefficient, it's most efficient in a controlled facility like a natural gas power plant. Even considering transmission and local distribution, battery charging losses, etc.

Batteries have an environmental footprint, no doubt. However, large lithium batteries like you find in vehicles don't just get thrown away. There's money in recycling and rebuilding batteries, but even if you consider the energy that goes into producing the battery, an EV still leaves a smaller footprint than a comparable ICE vehicle. But what if it didn't? It leaves an equal sized footprint to a ICE? You're still not willing to give any of this any credence? I certainly have.

The next thing you're likely to do is tell me how I'm wrong and clearly misled because you aren't going to change your opinions on what you think you know... I can tell you all about my experience owning an EV and gush about it, but I'll save that.

if @nwjeeper doesnt respond then we know whats what.

Simmer down, responding to you isn't my first priority.

 

[NWJeepr]

Here you go. I'm not posting this as proof of anything. I think it's important that this energy equation is continually studied, and that claims are repeated methodically over and over. This is yet another study referenced in the article which shows that over a vehicle's lifetime, an EV is cleaner than ICE.

4xe geeks....there's good stuff in here for you, too.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-study-proves-evs-are-always-cleaner-than-gas-cars

Link to the actual study:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.5c05406

University of Michigan press release:
https://news.umich.edu/evs-reduce-climate-pollution-but-by-how-much-new-u-m-research-has-the-answer/

But remember...I have an EV for fun. Even if a study was published today, which claimed the exact opposite, I will likely replace this EV with another EV when it comes time. EV's, particularly our BMW iX, are that good.

 

[Brad Hearing]

your experience with owning an EV and what it actually entails are two separate things.

im talking about the actual effect on society whereas you are viewing it from your own personal experience.

"My statement about being a hostage to oil companies is that without EV's we don't have choice."

even with EVs you dont have a choice. what part of how energy is generated do you not understand?

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