DieselGate

[TS2016]

https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/dieselgate-2-0-600k-ram-trucks-recalled-cummins-to-pay-2-billion/

We think Stelantis new at all?

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[Bayrat]

A huge money grab.

 

[Badunit]

I have yet to hear what exactly Cummins did. I wonder if the details of what they are accused of doing will ever come to light. My guess is the "agreement" includes keeping the details under wraps, under penalty of additional fines.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/dieselgate-2-0-600k-ram-trucks-recalled-cummins-to-pay-2-billion/

We think Stelantis new at all?

I don't get why companies don't just stop selling vehicles in California?

Sounds like it's just a giant waste of everyone's time and money to try and meet their ridiculous standards.

I get that the state as a whole, California buys more vehicles than anywhere else. That's why so many companies based their standards off of California's laws.

It just sucks that the rest of the country gets shitty options because California has such stringent rules and regulations on motor vehicles.

I'd love to see a company who is willing to take the loss in sales and would stop selling in California, and start making their vehicles for the rest of the country based on the rest of the country standards.

 

[DewHawk]

I'd love to see a company who is willing to take the loss in sales and would stop selling in California, and start making their vehicles for the rest of the country based on the rest of the country standards.

There's a problem with that plan though...
There's more states that have adopted CARB regulations to their own emissions standards to a certain degree. That list includes (as of November last year):

• Connecticut
• Colorado
• Delaware
• Maine
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• New Jersey
• New Mexico
• New York
• Oregon
• Pennsylvania
• Rhode Island
• Vermont
• Washington
• Washington D.C.

That's a lot of markets to miss out on. ?

 

[NPC 20883467]

I don't know why government keeps assessing these monstrous fines. Everyone knows the cost just gets passed along to the consumer. If they were seriously interested in stopping this kind of thing, they'd start sending the miscreants to prison.

 

[NPC 20883467]

That's a lot of markets to miss out on. ?

Looking at that list, it might be worthwhile to make two versions of each vehicle-- a blue state version and everybody else.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

There's a problem with that plan though...
There's more states that have adopted CARB regulations to their own emissions standards to a certain degree. That list includes (as of November last year):

• Connecticut
• Colorado
• Delaware
• Maine
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• New Jersey
• New Mexico
• New York
• Oregon
• Pennsylvania
• Rhode Island
• Vermont
• Washington
• Washington D.C.

That's a lot of markets to miss out on. ?

I'm not shocked by any of those states listed there. Literally all the worst states in the country, and D.C.

I can understand Maine, Maine's all over the place. They want their freedom, but they're all a bunch of hippies, I can understand Maine being on that list. They're probably just as confused as I am as to why they're on that list, but unwilling to argue it. They'll probably be bitching about it at the next Hippies with AKs event they have.

 

[Diesel1776]

There's a problem with that plan though...
There's more states that have adopted CARB regulations to their own emissions standards to a certain degree. That list includes (as of November last year):

• Connecticut
• Colorado
• Delaware
• Maine
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• New Jersey
• New Mexico
• New York
• Oregon
• Pennsylvania
• Rhode Island
• Vermont
• Washington
• Washington D.C.

That's a lot of markets to miss out on. ?

Yet they allow exemptions for government vehicles; and have no problem with VIP's wastefully flying via private jet 13 times per week.

I got one word for the CARB crew:
fugg'em

If they honestly cared, they'd put less effort into their phony witch hunts. And more effort into engineering viable low-toxicity alternatives to the things they're supposedly so afraid of. Hydrogen engines and non-rubber tires would be a great start to combat pollution. But these individuals simply just are not that smart, eh?

 

[DewHawk]

I don't know why government keeps assessing these monstrous fines. Everyone knows the cost just gets passed along to the consumer. If they were seriously interested in stopping this kind of thing, they'd start sending the miscreants to prison.

The EPA has been at 'war' with engine producers, automakers, tuners, aftermarket vendors, and the automotive community as a whole for years now. It's all part of a bigger push to force everyone into this electric future they keep hammering away at to promote a 'green' future.

I'm all for clean air to breathe but the limits that these states enforce are damn near impossible to meet without reducing efficiency dramatically. I've seen NOx and CO2 limits out here get HALVED in less than 5 years in an effort to further tighten the leash on emissions compliance. A lot of people have simply given up trying to meet the standards and started registering their vehicles out of state or through an LLC based out of state. It sorta worked...but then the DOT, county DMV's and local police departments started to notice and have started to crack down on that too.

We keep trying to police ourselves over the environment but don't even bother looking at the impact that other countries like China make daily. I was in Kunsan South Korea in 2015 for a little over 3 months, basically a stones throw from China's mainland. I can tell you there's absolutely nothing environmentally friendly about the $hit they pump out of their factories day in and day out over there. Gazing out over the water, It's like looking towards a literal wall of black smoke. You compare that with our dirtiest refineries stateside and we look like a bunch of saints.

 

[Ratbert]

Looking at that list, it might be worthwhile to make two versions of each vehicle-- a blue state version and everybody else.

Hopefully you realize that they tried that. And it failed.

 

[2nd 392]

There's a problem with that plan though...
There's more states that have adopted CARB regulations to their own emissions standards to a certain degree. That list includes (as of November last year):

• Connecticut
• Colorado
• Delaware
• Maine
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• New Jersey
• New Mexico
• New York
• Oregon
• Pennsylvania
• Rhode Island
• Vermont
• Washington
• Washington D.C.

That's a lot of markets to miss out on. ?

It’s a new year- Now add Minnesota, Virginia, and Nevada to the list. ? ….. ?executed?

California makes 19, and I recently read of another approving joining, but I can’t remember what state, hopefully one of the last 3 .

 

[Gangplank]

So they pay $2B, recall trucks and change the software. What’s that mean?

The truck with new software will pass the smog inspection?

Will it put out less emissions with the updated software?

 

[DewHawk]

So they pay $2B, recall trucks and change the software. What’s that mean?

The truck with new software will pass the smog inspection?

Will it put out less emissions with the updated software?

That’s the rumor. I’m not sure I buy the idea that Cummins is running some kind of software in Cali that does the same kind of $hit that VW was doing when they got busted. The thing is, based on what I’ve read it’s a very specific year group of ram pickups and not any of the newest models (unless I missed it).

My question is what sort of ‘grandfather’ clause exists for older vehicles that don’t meet the newest standards CARB releases say 5 years later? Cummins is saying they aren’t at fault and no one did this purposely, so my speculation is that CARB changed the limits and found that this specific year group of diesels weren’t meeting those standards. Pretty easy to bust a major company like this when you have a moving goal post that can change at any time.

If someone’s got more info on this I’d love to read it.

 

[Gangplank]

That’s the rumor. I’m not sure I buy the idea that Cummins is running some kind of software in Cali that does the same kind of $hit that VW was doing when they got busted. The thing is, based on what I’ve read it’s a very specific year group of ram pickups and not any of the newest models (unless I missed it).

My question is what sort of ‘grandfather’ clause exists for older vehicles that don’t meet the newest standards CARB releases say 5 years later? Cummins is saying they aren’t at fault and no one did this purposely, so my speculation is that CARB changed the limits and found that this specific year group of diesels weren’t meeting those standards. Pretty easy to bust a major company like this when you have a moving goal post that can change at any time.

If someone’s got more info on this I’d love to read it.

what I think it means is the new software will scale back the emissions while driving in real life and not just to pass the smog test. Lower power & less mpg?

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