Capt. Don
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Don
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2022
- Threads
- 6
- Messages
- 270
- Reaction score
- 300
- Location
- Puerto Rico
- Vehicle(s)
- 2022 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited High Tide
- Occupation
- US Merchant Marine Master, 100T
- Vehicle Showcase
- 1
- Thread starter
- #1
Background:
SoggyCashew posted an excellent account of "Replace your blank instrument clustes blank LCD while keeping mileage." This is an excellent account of how to repair rather than doing a full replacment on the 7 inch display cluster. This cluster has only two "analog gauges" (actually digital signal converted to analog indicator for gauge by the white converters on the board). For the 7 in. cluster these are conveniently located on the secondary board that includes the converters and the 7 in. LCD display. The mother board underneath contains the actual EPROMS that contain the logic and memory required in our clusters. So for the 7 in clusters you can replace the convertes (2) and the display and attach that board to the cluster's mother board that contains mileage and other storerd information. And for the 7 in. clusters it appears that this secondary board with LCD and converters is the most common failure point. How nice, and an excellent reason to consider a 7 inch display cluster as an upgrade to your 3.5 inch cluster. Other threads and YouTube cover this upgrade.
But what if you have a 4 year old Wrangler with the 3.5 inch display cluster that goes blank and you are beyond the 28 month cut-off of service for a recall mandated by NHTSB for the 2024 model year with 3,5 inch clusters? My dealer wanted to impound my vehicle, order a new cluster, program it, and with R&R labor that comes to over $1,000. As this is a Magnetti America sourcing issue from a Fiat supplier for the 3.5 inch cluster from 2018-2024, but only the 2024 modes were recalled, though the problem extends back to 2018, well, I did not feel like paying for a new cluster plus labor to Jeep, who put me in this position. Yes, NHTSB let Jeep off the hook with the accepted 28 months service life window, any vehicle over that and it is the owner's responsibility. OK, put up or shut up, on to Big Blue, our 2022 High Tide.
Problem:
Three weeks ago, our 2022 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited High Tide greeted us one morning with a blank, absolutely dead 3.5 inch display and all other functions on the instrument cluster, except for security light (red). Mmmm. Not the fuses, powere was going to the cluster. After saying "no" to my dealer to impound the vehicle and replace with a new cluster, reprogrammed in a couple of weeks, I drove away and did some research. There are like a dozen part number for the instrument cluster that were used between 2018-2024. Different powertrains I can understand, different engine, different tachometer for instance. My eTorque V-6 for 2022 had a 3.5 inch cluster with part number P68522500AC in it currently with 43,000 miles approximately (I was still driving it with a blank cluster). First issue was that a part number search by VIN showed no availability and some sites said this would not work in my VIN Jeep. Others said this was the correct instrument cluster. I did a salvage part search and came up with a 2022 Wrangler V-6 with 45,000 miles (important to note, slightly more, not less miles, than my Jeep had. Neglect this and our Jeeps have the logic to reject based upon mismatch when the cluster is installed and other modules with mileage records try to communicate with the replacement cluster), with the exact same part number including the AC modification level. I bought it for $146.
Some on the forum have asked why not just drive it without the instrument cluster working. I did while waiting for my part delivery. Here is what I found.
I would say that it definitely is a safety issue. Any one of these, you can handle separately in an adequate manner. But add all of these at one time on a dark rainy night is a different issue. For those of you who have not experienced an unexpected blank instrument cluster, consider this:
- Trying to manage turn signals and high/low beam headlights without any indication or sound inside the vehicle. Especially tough at twilight.
- Trying to manage fuel levels without any indication. Challenging as the days go by.
- Trying to manage vehicle speed is hard. As the center stack display is a separate circuit, you can use your Nav app and display speed. Not as helpful in areas (such as where we live) that measures highway distances in kilometers and so the GPS displays in KPH rather than the requested mph.
- Trying to manage downhill speed with transmission gearing is quite difficult with an 8-speed transmission and no tachometer of gear indicator inside.
- eTorque and charging systems do not seem to work completely on our vehicle (2022 JLUHT) without the instrument cluster. There is a parasitic draw on the battery overnight leaving me with mid-11VDC to start the next morning. Let the Jeep sit for two days and it will not start. A new AGM battery did not address this. Short in the shorted-out cluster display assembly? Fire hazard? I hope that the fuse would protect from that. Still, something is sucking electrical power, not normal and not before the blank instrument cluster. I will find out as I replace the display. Note: New instrument cluster did fix this.
- And finally, you receive absolutely no indication, no gauge, no DTC, no trouble light or sound if you have a system caution or failure while driving. Think about that while your wife is hounding you about why you bought another Jeep. Well, she does not pay attention to any information from the cluster, other than speed, sometimes, anyway.
Repair:
I received the salvage part with a scratched up lens. Not an issue as I expected that and have a perfect one on my original and they are replaceable. I removed the original cluster using one of the YouTube JL Wrangler instrument cluster removal vbideos. About a half hour that took me one hour first time. Most in this position would install a 7 inch display instrument cluster as an upgrade (same price on the salvage market) and I would recommend that if you are not concerned with originality. The reasons are discussed below. Same or slightly higher mileage, or impound your Jeep and have a new or used one programmed with the correct mileage ($100 fro a couple of sources in the US). I wanted origianl and I wanted to see if SoggyCashew's procedure worked for the 3.5 inch cluster as well as it did for the 7 in. cluster. Short answer is, "No." Full cluster assembly replacement of the 3.5 inch cluster is required.
1. With battery disconnected, with my original instrument cluster removed, I plugged in my replacement cluster to verify function. Reconnected battery. Everything worked perfectly.
2. OK, was the problem in the 3.5 inch LCD or in the single circuit board? I wanted to verify, so first I gently pulled back the black mask surrounding the display. Then I removed the 3.5 inch LCD from my original cluster by pulling back on the locking tab for the ribbon cable to release it, then pressing the LCD up towards the two large locking tabs (flexible) to release from the fixed base tabs, ten gently lifting out. I installed my original 3.5 inch LCD in the new cluster. Then I (battery disconnected) installed this cluster (salvage board with my origianl cluster) in the Jeep. Reconnected battery and everything worked fine but displayed the mileage from the salvage cluster. Two lessons here. The 3.5 inch cluster problem is not in the LCD but in the board. Secondly, the mileage is stored in the board for the cluster assembly (makes sense as that is where the EPROMS are located. And the NHTSB issue recall for the 2024s said it was a circuit board problem in the 3.5 inch cluster assembly. So unlike the 7 inch cluster display, it is not possible to repair the 3.5 inch cluster assembly with a board repair of the single board in the 3.5 inch cluster assembly. As I manufactured medical devices for 40 years I know a few things about boards. I inspected my original board closely for signs of overheating, burned area or component, damaged components, bad tracks, bad soldering, cold soldering, a good thorough visual with magnification. I could see no problem. This is a high quality board with no visual defects but it does not work, so most likely a component or fuse failure. As this is all SMT (very small, surface mount technology) and not the more easily repaired through-hole components, it exceeds my capacity to repair, so replacement for me is required.
3. I had marked my "max needle zero, less than gauge zero" points on all four gauges for both clusters with masking tape and a fine marker. The four needles had to come off to shift the replacement cluster to my original LCD. This is work you do NOT have to do if you replace the whole cluster assembly. I was mixing/matching components looking for a root cause. You will not have to worry about resetting your four needle indicators properly (three times for me).
4. Bottom line, replace the whole cluster for the 3.5 inch instrument cluster. Reprogram your new cluster to your actual miles stored in other systems on your Jeep. like the ECU, and searchable via a full system diagnostic scan via your OBDII port (you will need more than a code reader). Or reprogram your used replacement cluster via outside service available in the USA. Or install an identical model cluster with same revision level part with slightly more miles. You can even wait for the correct miles to come up in your ECU or another cluster (high mileage) then slot in your replacement cluster at the correct mileage. Does the instrument cluster have VIN stored? Conflicting reports on this. I did not find evidence of that. Any response from Forum members on this question?
Summary:
The above procedure including a simple instrument cluster display with 3.5 inch LCD replacement with the same part number, with equal or slightly higher mileage will get your Jeep safely back on the road.. It is the board, not the LCD, on the 3.5 inch clusters that are the problem. Your mileage resides in the board. No easy fix for the defective 3.5 inch display PC board was found though a shop with the right tools could shift EPROMS from your original board. Not a minor task but there are shops out there that can do that. The 7 inch display instrument cluster is easier to work with as it has two boards and the one that commonly fails is not the one with the EPROMS (mileage) so it is easier to maintain original matchup with the other modules in the Jeep. With this knowledge you can make your own decision as to what is right for your Jeep.
None of these solutions include getting a low mileage cluster to work in a high mileage Jeep as there are software safeguards in our Jeeps to ensure this does not work and is not accepted in the operating system down to the module level in our Jeeps.
SoggyCashew posted an excellent account of "Replace your blank instrument clustes blank LCD while keeping mileage." This is an excellent account of how to repair rather than doing a full replacment on the 7 inch display cluster. This cluster has only two "analog gauges" (actually digital signal converted to analog indicator for gauge by the white converters on the board). For the 7 in. cluster these are conveniently located on the secondary board that includes the converters and the 7 in. LCD display. The mother board underneath contains the actual EPROMS that contain the logic and memory required in our clusters. So for the 7 in clusters you can replace the convertes (2) and the display and attach that board to the cluster's mother board that contains mileage and other storerd information. And for the 7 in. clusters it appears that this secondary board with LCD and converters is the most common failure point. How nice, and an excellent reason to consider a 7 inch display cluster as an upgrade to your 3.5 inch cluster. Other threads and YouTube cover this upgrade.
But what if you have a 4 year old Wrangler with the 3.5 inch display cluster that goes blank and you are beyond the 28 month cut-off of service for a recall mandated by NHTSB for the 2024 model year with 3,5 inch clusters? My dealer wanted to impound my vehicle, order a new cluster, program it, and with R&R labor that comes to over $1,000. As this is a Magnetti America sourcing issue from a Fiat supplier for the 3.5 inch cluster from 2018-2024, but only the 2024 modes were recalled, though the problem extends back to 2018, well, I did not feel like paying for a new cluster plus labor to Jeep, who put me in this position. Yes, NHTSB let Jeep off the hook with the accepted 28 months service life window, any vehicle over that and it is the owner's responsibility. OK, put up or shut up, on to Big Blue, our 2022 High Tide.
Problem:
Three weeks ago, our 2022 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited High Tide greeted us one morning with a blank, absolutely dead 3.5 inch display and all other functions on the instrument cluster, except for security light (red). Mmmm. Not the fuses, powere was going to the cluster. After saying "no" to my dealer to impound the vehicle and replace with a new cluster, reprogrammed in a couple of weeks, I drove away and did some research. There are like a dozen part number for the instrument cluster that were used between 2018-2024. Different powertrains I can understand, different engine, different tachometer for instance. My eTorque V-6 for 2022 had a 3.5 inch cluster with part number P68522500AC in it currently with 43,000 miles approximately (I was still driving it with a blank cluster). First issue was that a part number search by VIN showed no availability and some sites said this would not work in my VIN Jeep. Others said this was the correct instrument cluster. I did a salvage part search and came up with a 2022 Wrangler V-6 with 45,000 miles (important to note, slightly more, not less miles, than my Jeep had. Neglect this and our Jeeps have the logic to reject based upon mismatch when the cluster is installed and other modules with mileage records try to communicate with the replacement cluster), with the exact same part number including the AC modification level. I bought it for $146.
Some on the forum have asked why not just drive it without the instrument cluster working. I did while waiting for my part delivery. Here is what I found.
I would say that it definitely is a safety issue. Any one of these, you can handle separately in an adequate manner. But add all of these at one time on a dark rainy night is a different issue. For those of you who have not experienced an unexpected blank instrument cluster, consider this:
- Trying to manage turn signals and high/low beam headlights without any indication or sound inside the vehicle. Especially tough at twilight.
- Trying to manage fuel levels without any indication. Challenging as the days go by.
- Trying to manage vehicle speed is hard. As the center stack display is a separate circuit, you can use your Nav app and display speed. Not as helpful in areas (such as where we live) that measures highway distances in kilometers and so the GPS displays in KPH rather than the requested mph.
- Trying to manage downhill speed with transmission gearing is quite difficult with an 8-speed transmission and no tachometer of gear indicator inside.
- eTorque and charging systems do not seem to work completely on our vehicle (2022 JLUHT) without the instrument cluster. There is a parasitic draw on the battery overnight leaving me with mid-11VDC to start the next morning. Let the Jeep sit for two days and it will not start. A new AGM battery did not address this. Short in the shorted-out cluster display assembly? Fire hazard? I hope that the fuse would protect from that. Still, something is sucking electrical power, not normal and not before the blank instrument cluster. I will find out as I replace the display. Note: New instrument cluster did fix this.
- And finally, you receive absolutely no indication, no gauge, no DTC, no trouble light or sound if you have a system caution or failure while driving. Think about that while your wife is hounding you about why you bought another Jeep. Well, she does not pay attention to any information from the cluster, other than speed, sometimes, anyway.
Repair:
I received the salvage part with a scratched up lens. Not an issue as I expected that and have a perfect one on my original and they are replaceable. I removed the original cluster using one of the YouTube JL Wrangler instrument cluster removal vbideos. About a half hour that took me one hour first time. Most in this position would install a 7 inch display instrument cluster as an upgrade (same price on the salvage market) and I would recommend that if you are not concerned with originality. The reasons are discussed below. Same or slightly higher mileage, or impound your Jeep and have a new or used one programmed with the correct mileage ($100 fro a couple of sources in the US). I wanted origianl and I wanted to see if SoggyCashew's procedure worked for the 3.5 inch cluster as well as it did for the 7 in. cluster. Short answer is, "No." Full cluster assembly replacement of the 3.5 inch cluster is required.
1. With battery disconnected, with my original instrument cluster removed, I plugged in my replacement cluster to verify function. Reconnected battery. Everything worked perfectly.
2. OK, was the problem in the 3.5 inch LCD or in the single circuit board? I wanted to verify, so first I gently pulled back the black mask surrounding the display. Then I removed the 3.5 inch LCD from my original cluster by pulling back on the locking tab for the ribbon cable to release it, then pressing the LCD up towards the two large locking tabs (flexible) to release from the fixed base tabs, ten gently lifting out. I installed my original 3.5 inch LCD in the new cluster. Then I (battery disconnected) installed this cluster (salvage board with my origianl cluster) in the Jeep. Reconnected battery and everything worked fine but displayed the mileage from the salvage cluster. Two lessons here. The 3.5 inch cluster problem is not in the LCD but in the board. Secondly, the mileage is stored in the board for the cluster assembly (makes sense as that is where the EPROMS are located. And the NHTSB issue recall for the 2024s said it was a circuit board problem in the 3.5 inch cluster assembly. So unlike the 7 inch cluster display, it is not possible to repair the 3.5 inch cluster assembly with a board repair of the single board in the 3.5 inch cluster assembly. As I manufactured medical devices for 40 years I know a few things about boards. I inspected my original board closely for signs of overheating, burned area or component, damaged components, bad tracks, bad soldering, cold soldering, a good thorough visual with magnification. I could see no problem. This is a high quality board with no visual defects but it does not work, so most likely a component or fuse failure. As this is all SMT (very small, surface mount technology) and not the more easily repaired through-hole components, it exceeds my capacity to repair, so replacement for me is required.
3. I had marked my "max needle zero, less than gauge zero" points on all four gauges for both clusters with masking tape and a fine marker. The four needles had to come off to shift the replacement cluster to my original LCD. This is work you do NOT have to do if you replace the whole cluster assembly. I was mixing/matching components looking for a root cause. You will not have to worry about resetting your four needle indicators properly (three times for me).
4. Bottom line, replace the whole cluster for the 3.5 inch instrument cluster. Reprogram your new cluster to your actual miles stored in other systems on your Jeep. like the ECU, and searchable via a full system diagnostic scan via your OBDII port (you will need more than a code reader). Or reprogram your used replacement cluster via outside service available in the USA. Or install an identical model cluster with same revision level part with slightly more miles. You can even wait for the correct miles to come up in your ECU or another cluster (high mileage) then slot in your replacement cluster at the correct mileage. Does the instrument cluster have VIN stored? Conflicting reports on this. I did not find evidence of that. Any response from Forum members on this question?
Summary:
The above procedure including a simple instrument cluster display with 3.5 inch LCD replacement with the same part number, with equal or slightly higher mileage will get your Jeep safely back on the road.. It is the board, not the LCD, on the 3.5 inch clusters that are the problem. Your mileage resides in the board. No easy fix for the defective 3.5 inch display PC board was found though a shop with the right tools could shift EPROMS from your original board. Not a minor task but there are shops out there that can do that. The 7 inch display instrument cluster is easier to work with as it has two boards and the one that commonly fails is not the one with the EPROMS (mileage) so it is easier to maintain original matchup with the other modules in the Jeep. With this knowledge you can make your own decision as to what is right for your Jeep.
None of these solutions include getting a low mileage cluster to work in a high mileage Jeep as there are software safeguards in our Jeeps to ensure this does not work and is not accepted in the operating system down to the module level in our Jeeps.
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