Questions/Suggestion on Geometry/Steering

[gpoverland]

I’m still trying to figure out a few pieces of the lift for my 2019 JLUR 1. Caster angle, why do I keep reading about folks replacing their front lca and not front lower and upper control arms? Why not front and back? 2. Track bars, keep seeing folks buying them for the front to align the front ankle, but haven’t seen folks talk too much about the back axle. Wouldn’t you want to buy both? 3. Steering, my 2019 JLUR seems to have a lot of play. It’s driving me nuts. Looking at the higher end falcon steering stabilizer, but what else should be added to make this more stable (my tires get here this week and scared the extra weight might make the steering worse). 4. What low cost but sturdy options do you recommend? I’ve researched teraflex and steersmart options, but not exactly sure what’s the best bang for your buck when it comes to all of the components out there. Think daily driver with the 2” Dynatrac lift (decided on that, tires, and wheels so far). Progress!

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[californiajeeping]

I’m still trying to figure out a few pieces of the lift for my 2019 JLUR 1. Caster angle, why do I keep reading about folks replacing their front lca and not front lower and upper control arms? Why not front and back? 2. Track bars, keep seeing folks buying them for the front to align the front ankle, but haven’t seen folks talk too much about the back axle. Wouldn’t you want to buy both? 3. Steering, my 2019 JLUR seems to have a lot of play. It’s driving me nuts. Looking at the higher end falcon steering stabilizer, but what else should be added to make this more stable (my tires get here this week and scared the extra weight might make the steering worse). 4. What low cost but sturdy options do you recommend? I’ve researched teraflex and steersmart options, but not exactly sure what’s the best bang for your buck when it comes to all of the components out there. Think daily driver with the 2” Dynatrac lift (decided on that, tires, and wheels so far). Progress!

You might want to copy - paste your post above to the main steering thread to get more responses at https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/loose-steering-feels-like-it-has-play-and-drifts.3691

 

[Carlton]

I’m still trying to figure out a few pieces of the lift for my 2019 JLUR 1. Caster angle, why do I keep reading about folks replacing their front lca and not front lower and upper control arms? Why not front and back? 2. Track bars, keep seeing folks buying them for the front to align the front ankle, but haven’t seen folks talk too much about the back axle. Wouldn’t you want to buy both? 3. Steering, my 2019 JLUR seems to have a lot of play. It’s driving me nuts. Looking at the higher end falcon steering stabilizer, but what else should be added to make this more stable (my tires get here this week and scared the extra weight might make the steering worse). 4. What low cost but sturdy options do you recommend? I’ve researched teraflex and steersmart options, but not exactly sure what’s the best bang for your buck when it comes to all of the components out there. Think daily driver with the 2” Dynatrac lift (decided on that, tires, and wheels so far). Progress!

1. Front lowers adjust caster. Uppers and lowers allow you to even out caster and pinion angle. The JL doesn't require as much lift as previous models so pinion angle tends to be fine. Rear arms address pinion angle and centering the wheel in the well. Less lift required, not necessary.

2. Most people use a trackbar bracket in the rear. This addresses geometry and works well. The front a new trackbar is the go to. A bracket isn't used often unless you are flipping the drag link for a high steer set up.

3. A steering stabilizer is a bandaid. Jeep is releasing a new track bar to address this issue. Better option steer smarts steering set up, but expensive.

4. If you want a lower priced, heavy duty, track bar Rough Country is a good option. Beefiest out there would be steer smarts but twice the cost.

 

[Sheepjeep]

1. When you lift the jeep the axles will swing down and towards the center of the jeep and they will also rotate relative to frame of the jeep this will cause the caster angle to change causing changes to the performance of the steering for the front axle and your pinion angle effecting the longevity of the joints in the driveshafts both front and rear. By using a adjustable lower control arm you can rotate the axle pivoting on the axle mounting point of the upper control arm of the front axle thus adjusting the pinion and caster angles. On the front axle caster is more important than pinion because of steering and it seems that the JL is a little more sensitive on the caster angle than older Jeeps. The pinion matters less on the front because it is hard to get it in line with the caster, but on the rear you have no steering taking priority and you should adjust it so that the pinion yoke on the diff is pointing straight at the output of the transfer case. The increase angle will cause extra wear on the joints as they are spinning more. On a 4 door this angle is less than a 2 door and the JL only needs 2-3" of lift where old jeeps needed 5"+ to fit the same tires sizes making the pinion angles worse. An upper control arm with a lower control arm can adjust the pinion/caster and will also recenter the axle in the wheel well to correct for the swing inward.
2. Trackbars job is to jeep the jeep centered under the jeep left and right and allows for something solid for the steering to push off of when turning rather than pushing the slack in the coils around. When lifting the Jeep the tracbar will cause the axle to swing towards the trackbar frame side mount causing the front axle to be sticking out further to one side, this is true on the front and rear. Further more on the front the trackbar in the front needs to remain parallel to the drag link else it can cause bump steer as the drag link is traveling a different path as the axle and turning the wheels. You can correct this by adjusting out the length of the tractbar on the front axle so that it is phase with the drag link. Again the JL doesnt need much lift but the older jeeps it was common to see drop pitman arms on the steering box and tracbar relocation brackets along with adjustable tracbars to correct this as it get worse the higher you go. And going back to the push the axles left or right on the JL ans you lift the front will go more towards the driver side and the rear will go more towards the passenger side and cause cause crab walking and wandering in some cases, so a front and rear trackbar will correct this
3. The stabilizer will absorb bumps and tamper down loose steering symptoms but do not resolve the issue. But from your complaint it sounds more like you are complaining about the dead spot when turning left or right, this is due to the style of steering used on the JL there are a lot of ball joints going from the steering box to the knuckles and when you turn you are picking up the slack in each one. While most modern cars have moved away from this style steering for a more responsive steering Jeep sticks with it in the JL for the off road dependability.
4. Buy quality trackbars, buy cheap and you will get cheap joints that will loosen and ware out fast over time causing death wobble or will be weak and break. I have used clayton in a few of my past jeeps my current JLUR (running their full overland plus kit) and have a bunch of buddies who have ran them for year. Price wise its a more expensive one but not much more compared to other cheap brands extra $50-70 https://www.claytonoffroad.com/jeep_wrangler_adjustable_front_track_bar_2018_jl

When it comes to suspension lists every jeep will be different with different sprung weight and kit will act different with with different coil rating and manufacturing tolerances and what not. So if you go to lift dont expect it to be plug and play working it will need to be fine tuned and adjusted and may need to have to get extra part post install to correct for problems specific to you. But try to under stand the problems that you have and figure out what you best guest will work rather than throw parts and hope it fixes it.

 

[gpoverland]

1. When you lift the jeep the axles will swing down and towards the center of the jeep and they will also rotate relative to frame of the jeep this will cause the caster angle to change causing changes to the performance of the steering for the front axle and your pinion angle effecting the longevity of the joints in the driveshafts both front and rear. By using a adjustable lower control arm you can rotate the axle pivoting on the axle mounting point of the upper control arm of the front axle thus adjusting the pinion and caster angles. On the front axle caster is more important than pinion because of steering and it seems that the JL is a little more sensitive on the caster angle than older Jeeps. The pinion matters less on the front because it is hard to get it in line with the caster, but on the rear you have no steering taking priority and you should adjust it so that the pinion yoke on the diff is pointing straight at the output of the transfer case. The increase angle will cause extra wear on the joints as they are spinning more. On a 4 door this angle is less than a 2 door and the JL only needs 2-3" of lift where old jeeps needed 5"+ to fit the same tires sizes making the pinion angles worse. An upper control arm with a lower control arm can adjust the pinion/caster and will also recenter the axle in the wheel well to correct for the swing inward.
2. Trackbars job is to jeep the jeep centered under the jeep left and right and allows for something solid for the steering to push off of when turning rather than pushing the slack in the coils around. When lifting the Jeep the tracbar will cause the axle to swing towards the trackbar frame side mount causing the front axle to be sticking out further to one side, this is true on the front and rear. Further more on the front the trackbar in the front needs to remain parallel to the drag link else it can cause bump steer as the drag link is traveling a different path as the axle and turning the wheels. You can correct this by adjusting out the length of the tractbar on the front axle so that it is phase with the drag link. Again the JL doesnt need much lift but the older jeeps it was common to see drop pitman arms on the steering box and tracbar relocation brackets along with adjustable tracbars to correct this as it get worse the higher you go. And going back to the push the axles left or right on the JL ans you lift the front will go more towards the driver side and the rear will go more towards the passenger side and cause cause crab walking and wandering in some cases, so a front and rear trackbar will correct this
3. The stabilizer will absorb bumps and tamper down loose steering symptoms but do not resolve the issue. But from your complaint it sounds more like you are complaining about the dead spot when turning left or right, this is due to the style of steering used on the JL there are a lot of ball joints going from the steering box to the knuckles and when you turn you are picking up the slack in each one. While most modern cars have moved away from this style steering for a more responsive steering Jeep sticks with it in the JL for the off road dependability.
4. Buy quality trackbars, buy cheap and you will get cheap joints that will loosen and ware out fast over time causing death wobble or will be weak and break. I have used clayton in a few of my past jeeps my current JLUR (running their full overland plus kit) and have a bunch of buddies who have ran them for year. Price wise its a more expensive one but not much more compared to other cheap brands extra $50-70 https://www.claytonoffroad.com/jeep_wrangler_adjustable_front_track_bar_2018_jl

When it comes to suspension lists every jeep will be different with different sprung weight and kit will act different with with different coil rating and manufacturing tolerances and what not. So if you go to lift dont expect it to be plug and play working it will need to be fine tuned and adjusted and may need to have to get extra part post install to correct for problems specific to you. But try to under stand the problems that you have and figure out what you best guest will work rather than throw parts and hope it fixes it.

Wow, that was awesome... appreciate the time it took to write that one.. thanks for the advice as well.

 

[californiajeeping]

3. A steering stabilizer is a bandaid. Jeep is releasing a new track bar to address this issue. Better option steer smarts steering set up, but expensive.

The new Mopar track bar was already available to order in late February.

 

[gpoverland]

1. When you lift the jeep the axles will swing down and towards the center of the jeep and they will also rotate relative to frame of the jeep this will cause the caster angle to change causing changes to the performance of the steering for the front axle and your pinion angle effecting the longevity of the joints in the driveshafts both front and rear. By using a adjustable lower control arm you can rotate the axle pivoting on the axle mounting point of the upper control arm of the front axle thus adjusting the pinion and caster angles. On the front axle caster is more important than pinion because of steering and it seems that the JL is a little more sensitive on the caster angle than older Jeeps. The pinion matters less on the front because it is hard to get it in line with the caster, but on the rear you have no steering taking priority and you should adjust it so that the pinion yoke on the diff is pointing straight at the output of the transfer case. The increase angle will cause extra wear on the joints as they are spinning more. On a 4 door this angle is less than a 2 door and the JL only needs 2-3" of lift where old jeeps needed 5"+ to fit the same tires sizes making the pinion angles worse. An upper control arm with a lower control arm can adjust the pinion/caster and will also recenter the axle in the wheel well to correct for the swing inward.
2. Trackbars job is to jeep the jeep centered under the jeep left and right and allows for something solid for the steering to push off of when turning rather than pushing the slack in the coils around. When lifting the Jeep the tracbar will cause the axle to swing towards the trackbar frame side mount causing the front axle to be sticking out further to one side, this is true on the front and rear. Further more on the front the trackbar in the front needs to remain parallel to the drag link else it can cause bump steer as the drag link is traveling a different path as the axle and turning the wheels. You can correct this by adjusting out the length of the tractbar on the front axle so that it is phase with the drag link. Again the JL doesnt need much lift but the older jeeps it was common to see drop pitman arms on the steering box and tracbar relocation brackets along with adjustable tracbars to correct this as it get worse the higher you go. And going back to the push the axles left or right on the JL ans you lift the front will go more towards the driver side and the rear will go more towards the passenger side and cause cause crab walking and wandering in some cases, so a front and rear trackbar will correct this
3. The stabilizer will absorb bumps and tamper down loose steering symptoms but do not resolve the issue. But from your complaint it sounds more like you are complaining about the dead spot when turning left or right, this is due to the style of steering used on the JL there are a lot of ball joints going from the steering box to the knuckles and when you turn you are picking up the slack in each one. While most modern cars have moved away from this style steering for a more responsive steering Jeep sticks with it in the JL for the off road dependability.
4. Buy quality trackbars, buy cheap and you will get cheap joints that will loosen and ware out fast over time causing death wobble or will be weak and break. I have used clayton in a few of my past jeeps my current JLUR (running their full overland plus kit) and have a bunch of buddies who have ran them for year. Price wise its a more expensive one but not much more compared to other cheap brands extra $50-70 https://www.claytonoffroad.com/jeep_wrangler_adjustable_front_track_bar_2018_jl

When it comes to suspension lists every jeep will be different with different sprung weight and kit will act different with with different coil rating and manufacturing tolerances and what not. So if you go to lift dont expect it to be plug and play working it will need to be fine tuned and adjusted and may need to have to get extra part post install to correct for problems specific to you. But try to under stand the problems that you have and figure out what you best guest will work rather than trow parts and hope it fixes it.

Hi @Sheepjeep, can you point me to the exact parts you bought in the Clayton site. Tires and lift Are arriving today, and I’m ordering the next round of parts (sounds so odd since the Jeep jlur is less than 3 months young). Lol

 

[Sheepjeep]

Hi @Sheepjeep, can you point me to the exact parts you bought in the Clayton site. Tires and lift Are arriving today, and I’m ordering the next round of parts (sounds so odd since the Jeep jlur is less than 3 months young). Lol

I did the full kit but if you click on the bill of materials tab you can buy the parts individually


https://www.claytonoffroad.com/jeep_wrangler_25_overland_lift_kit_2018_jl

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