Can Bus Settings / Speeds / Commands

[jmccorm]

What I think what they're trying to show is that while one module might normally belong on one network, it can have additional rights to interact with the other network (assumed indirectly, through the SGW module). This is known, but while reviewing this, I saw a yet another feature which I'm almost certain to implement. Thank you!

PS: Back to your problem, if you're using a Tazer or any kind of SGW bypass, be sure to temporarily disconnect that as well to see if it has any effect on your issue.

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[jmccorm]

Aha!http://connectors.dcctools.com/details.htm?id=153287

I'm back from the dealer. They couldn't figure it out my way (part number of the bus connectors, also by where they were located in the vehicle) so I ran out of options....

...but I had your suggestion to fall back on. (By the way, again, thank you!) It was a bit pricey ($94), and of course there's no image or description of what that part number consists of, but with any luck, I'lll end up with a handful of wired pigtails. If not, I can live with a 35% restocking fee and try again. ?

If it turns out to be a box full of them, I'd be happy to mail a few of them your way. ?

 

[gato]

PS: Back to your problem, if you're using a Tazer or any kind of SGW bypass, be sure to temporarily disconnect that as well to see if it has any effect on your issue.

Thanks for that - I isolated the main problem to a chafed harness near the transmission bell housing. I pointed out to the dealer tech, and we both agreed that he would repair the harness (only one wire was showing coper), since the harness itself is back ordered and is rather difficult to replace.

 

[jmccorm]

Thanks for that - I isolated the main problem to a chafed harness near the transmission bell housing. I pointed out to the dealer tech, and we both agreed that he would repair the harness (only one wire was showing coper), since the harness itself is back ordered and is rather difficult to replace.

Awesome job! You've inspired me further. In fact, I'll go ahead and spill the beans how...

Feature #1: CAN bus test mode - A test of the CAN bus, looking for an increased error rate (perhaps "missing" messages, but almost certainly any valid length messages with a single-bit error on their CRC). I'd think there are always going to be errors on the CAN bus, but any higher-than-normal rate would be suspect.

Could be implemented a number of ways. There's passive testing, and then there's active testing. Active testing could target individual modules and watch for their replies. Or an active test could work as simultaneous sender and receiver, by sending a message on one bus (one that's forwarded by the SGW) and directly evaluating what's received on the alternate bus (and the vice-versa).

Feature #2: CAN bus long-term passive background test -- A background monitor of the CAN bus error rate, looking in recent stats for either a very high error rate, or a recent increase in the error rate compared to its previously established baseline. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that CAN prevents packet collisions, so there are always going to be errors (particularly during high-traffic events), but it will be a question of how many in proportion to throughput.

I've seen a few of those "my vehicle has gone crazy" stories from time-to-time, and I've had to wonder how many of those could have been issues with corruption on the CAN bus.

Since you are trying to tie in cheaply to the canbus you may be able to hack this open and tie into it on the cheap. I just bought this for my 2022 Rubicon on order. I plan to use it with AlphaOBD to correct tire size when i get the jeep. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DLB6VH6

I personally find it much more convenient to plug in a tool behind the glovebox and far more secure than outright removing the SGW (unless they're replicating it's complete intended behavior as a firewall... which I'm doubting).

But the most immediate reason? I've already got a Tazer JL and VLinker MC+ OBD2 scanner hooked up! Plugging into both of the 13-way CAN bus connectors allows me to work with my OBD2 scanner and Tazer JL still present.

Otherwise... wow, that's cheap way to get the right pair of custom connectors. Wasn't a bad suggestion at all!

 

[beaups]

Since you are trying to tie in cheaply to the canbus you may be able to hack this open and tie into it on the cheap. I just bought this for my 2022 Rubicon on order. I plan to use it with AlphaOBD to correct tire size when i get the jeep. There isn't a lot of info on AlphaOBD with the wrangler so I may be going in somewhat blind. There is a lot of good info for RAM and Challengers/Chargers though adding options that were not originally part of the vehicle.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DLB6VH6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

If you go through OBD connector you'll need additional adapters to reach the various networks (the different buses are wired on different pins that OBD adapters don't reach). Since Jeep gives us that canbus "block" behind the glovebox or w/e it's easiest just to use that.

 

[MacombRoger]

Just get the connector from the junk yard.. plenty of FCA products there.

 

[jmccorm]

Just get the connector from the junk yard.. plenty of FCA products there.

SNARK DETECTED! But a solid suggestion. Plan B right there, thanks!

 

[jmccorm]

I received Waveshare's 2 channel CAN HAT today (thank you for that recommendation) and I connected it to a Raspberry Pi 4B which I underclocked to 1Ghz for added stability. I also had a shower thought this morning and decided to try to go for two CAN-B connections (instead of a CAN-B and a CAN-C connection).

I actually want to avoid attaching to the CAN-C bus (automotive body systems) if I can (because it could be a source of significant trouble). That, and having dual connections to the CAN-B (interior bus) means not only that I can have redundant connections, but I can detect my own collisions and immediately re-send any lost messages without those annoying timeout delays.

I also stumbled across the video from six or so years ago with the guy who hooked up a set of aux relays to the CAN bus. It looked nothing short of a precursor to what we have today in the Trailer-Tow and Heavy-Duty Electrical Group package. That's some great inspiration!

There are several problems I want to tackle, and the first one is a quality-of-life issue for myself. I purchased the Cold Weather Group package thinking that I could remotely start my Wrangler and have it heat or cool the interior to a nice cozy temperature before I go somewhere. Of course, that isn't anything like what the Wrangler does. Not by a longshot.

ENHANCED CABIN SETTINGS UPON REMOTE START
This is going to be a fairly aggressive routine. Buckle up!

INITIAL --​

Upon remote-start (and only a remote start), after a small delay, it looks at the outside temperature, looks at the cabin temperature, and then selects a heating or cooling routine (as appropriate) with user-defined predetermined setting. As a specific example for cold (but not freezing) weather: temperature to HI, fan to full speed, recirculation on (without activating A/C), air vents set to footwell and cabin, seat warmer to medium, and steering wheel warmer on.​

​

TARGET ATTAINED --​

Once the user-defined interior temperature target has been attained, it will set the temperature to the target temperature, change the fan speed to AUTO, and reduce the seat-warmer to low. It will also honk the horn and flash the headlights two times so that I (still inside the house) will know that my chariot awaits.​

​

INTERRUPTION --​

If the vehicle is entered before the target temperature has been attained, it will also set the temperature to the target, change the fan speed to AUTO, and reduce the seat-warmer to low. It will cancel the "TARGET ATTAINED" routine so that it will not honk the horn or flash the lights sometime later, like while the user is driving down the road. ?​

​

CANCELLATION --​

The entire routine is cancelled if the vehicle alarm goes off, if the engine shuts off, or if the HVAC settings are manually adjusted. (I might also add in some specific HVAC fault conditions if I can detect them.) Upon any of these events, all further automation is cancelled.​

Seems like the ideal recipe for creating a nice cozy car for the winter. But it has one major requirement that requires a warning and user acknowledgement: this program should not be used in enclosed spaces! (So I'm not suggesting that this should be out-of-the-box vehicle behavior, but something that a certain subset of owners would find attractive.)

Now, I wouldn't mind a few more sets of eyes here. Based on my understanding of the CAN bus, all of this should be entirely possible, right? See any flaws in my logic or items that have been overlooked?

 

[beaups]

I received Waveshare's 2 channel CAN HAT today (thank you for that recommendation) and I connected it to a Raspberry Pi 4B which I underclocked to 1Ghz for added stability. I also had a shower thought this morning and decided to try to go for two CAN-B connections (instead of a CAN-B and a CAN-C connection).

I actually want to avoid attaching to the CAN-C bus (automotive body systems) if I can (because it could be a source of significant trouble). That, and having dual connections to the CAN-B (interior bus) means not only that I can have redundant connections, but I can detect my own collisions and immediately re-send any lost messages without those annoying timeout delays.

I also stumbled across the video from six or so years ago with the guy who hooked up a set of aux relays to the CAN bus. It looked nothing short of a precursor to what we have today in the Trailer-Tow and Heavy-Duty Electrical Group package. That's some great inspiration!

There are several problems I want to tackle, and the first one is a quality-of-life issue for myself. I purchased the Cold Weather Group package thinking that I could remotely start my Wrangler and have it heat or cool the interior to a nice cozy temperature before I go somewhere. Of course, that isn't anything like what the Wrangler does. Not by a longshot.

ENHANCED CABIN SETTINGS UPON REMOTE START
This is going to be a fairly aggressive routine. Buckle up!

INITIAL --​

Upon remote-start (and only a remote start), after a small delay, it looks at the outside temperature, looks at the cabin temperature, and then selects a heating or cooling routine (as appropriate) with user-defined predetermined setting. As a specific example for cold (but not freezing) weather: temperature to HI, fan to full speed, recirculation on (without activating A/C), air vents set to footwell and cabin, seat warmer to medium, and steering wheel warmer on.​

​

TARGET ATTAINED --​

Once the user-defined interior temperature target has been attained, it will set the temperature to the target temperature, change the fan speed to AUTO, and reduce the seat-warmer to low. It will also honk the horn and flash the headlights two times so that I (still inside the house) will know that my chariot awaits.​

​

INTERRUPTION --​

If the vehicle is entered before the target temperature has been attained, it will also set the temperature to the target, change the fan speed to AUTO, and reduce the seat-warmer to low. It will cancel the "TARGET ATTAINED" routine so that it will not honk the horn or flash the lights sometime later, like while the user is driving down the road. ?​

​

CANCELLATION --​

The entire routine is cancelled if the vehicle alarm goes off, if the engine shuts off, or if the HVAC settings are manually adjusted. (I might also add in some specific HVAC fault conditions if I can detect them.) Upon any of these events, all further automation is cancelled.​

Seems like the ideal recipe for creating a nice cozy car for the winter. But it has one major requirement that requires a warning and user acknowledgement: this program should not be used in enclosed spaces! (So I'm not suggesting that this should be out-of-the-box vehicle behavior, but something that a certain subset of owners would find attractive.)

Now, I wouldn't mind a few more sets of eyes here. Based on my understanding of the CAN bus, all of this should be entirely possible, right? See any flaws in my logic or items that have been overlooked?

Having done a modest amount of CAN tinkering I'll advise that RPi is just fine for research/sniffing/discovering packets etc but it's way overkill (and cumbersome) for use once you get everything figured out. I used an arduino for my "finished" projects but keep in mind also that neither it nor the RPi (to my knowledge) are exactly rated/suitable for automotive use long term. Vibration, temperature extremes, etc.

 

[jmccorm]

Aha! http://connectors.dcctools.com/details.htm?id=153287

Item received! Let me preface this by saying that I'm going to do a bit of complaining, but absolutely none of that is on you (to which I'm thankful). Here goes:

The kit contains the wiring and heatshrink tubes to connect two CAN bus connectors. However, inside the kit is only a single CAN bus connector! Because this is a repair kit, perhaps they had in mind that a person could both salvage an existing connector and then make use of a new one. I don't know, but a single two-pin connector wasn't what I was expecting for a $93.56 pricetag. Not in the slightest!

I really want another CAN pigtail, but I just don't want to shell out another $93.56 for it. I already visited a couple of salvage yards, but they didn't have any JL or JT Jeeps (or any other recent Jeeps). "They're just too reliable" I was actually told! (High praise, I suppose, from someone who runs a salvage yard.) Anyone have a Plan C for obtaining another one of these?

 

[Dyolfknip74]

Item received! Let me preface this by saying that I'm going to do a bit of complaining, but absolutely none of that is on you (to which I'm thankful). Here goes:

The kit contains the wiring and heatshrink tubes to connect two CAN bus connectors. However, inside the kit is only a single CAN bus connector! Because this is a repair kit, perhaps they had in mind that a person could both salvage an existing connector and then make use of a new one. I don't know, but a single two-pin connector wasn't what I was expecting for a $93.56 pricetag. Not in the slightest!

I really want another CAN pigtail, but I just don't want to shell out another $93.56 for it. I already visited a couple of salvage yards, but they didn't have any JL or JT Jeeps (or any other recent Jeeps). "They're just too reliable" I was actually told! (High praise, I suppose, from someone who runs a salvage yard.) Anyone have a Plan C for obtaining another one of these?

Alibaba or AliExpress? That might be a wormhole you don't want to enter though.

 

[jmccorm]

Alibaba or AliExpress? That might be a wormhole you don't want to enter though.

That's some smart thinking! Luckily, I may not have to go that route, at least, for now. I noticed that some of the other connectors had different part numbers...

$85.05 WHITE 68137881AA CONNECTOR-STAR CAN C BODY C8
$38.00 WHITE 68137882AA CONNECTOR-STAR CAN C IP C1
$36.90 GREEN 68140677AA CONNECTOR-STAR CAN IHS IPC 1
$33.95 GREEN 68140676AA CONNECTOR-STAR CAN IHS IPC 9

Looks like I'll be headed back to the dealer to order myself one of the cheaper ones! Maybe in green this time, too! [Why, on earth, the first one was so expensive compared to the rest, I don't know. Maybe I'll find out?]

EDIT: I went to the dealer and purchased the $33.95 green CAN connector, special order. Should be in stock early next week. Whew! That's a lot more friendly on the budget.

 

[Dyolfknip74]

That's some smart thinking! Luckily, I may not have to go that route, at least, for now. I noticed that some of the other connectors had different part numbers...

$85.05 WHITE 68137881AA CONNECTOR-STAR CAN C BODY C8
$38.00 WHITE 68137882AA CONNECTOR-STAR CAN C IP C1
$36.90 GREEN 68140677AA CONNECTOR-STAR CAN IHS IPC 1
$33.95 GREEN 68140676AA CONNECTOR-STAR CAN IHS IPC 9

Looks like I'll be headed back to the dealer to order myself one of the cheaper ones! Maybe in green this time, too! [Why, on earth, the first one was so expensive compared to the rest, I don't know. Maybe I'll find out?]

EDIT: I went to the dealer and purchased the $33.95 green CAN connector, special order. Should be in stock early next week. Whew! That's a lot more friendly on the budget.

Nice, good luck. Watching intently.

 

[jmccorm]

Having done a modest amount of CAN tinkering I'll advise that RPi is just fine for research/sniffing/discovering packets etc but it's way overkill (and cumbersome) for use once you get everything figured out.

Believe it or not, I'm actually going to push back on this point. Why? Hear me out. I'd like to take this to the next level.

Using Android Auto emulation on the Raspberry Pi, the Uconnect radio becomes a visual interface with touchscreen for my project. It could convey deep information while making user input intuitive and easy. Even that aside, there's just so much more potential when you think bigger.

Just spitballing here, one such thing might be long-term data collection (a personal black-box recorder), perhaps using a proven Enterprise tool such as Splunk or one of its open-source counterparts for sifting through the data. Trending faults (something as simple as cylinder misfires) and locating when there's a big shift in their trajectory can be used to indicate or even predict faults. (Even more so when the data is voluntarily shared in a cloud-based system with other drivers. That plus maintenance history could be incredibly insightful! Predictive faults on a Wrangler!)

When you massively increase storage and computing power, so many new possibilities are unlocked. I'd say that the Raspberry Pi is perfect in this respect, but while I share your next concern (which I'll paste below), I'd say that mine would be cybersecurity. It has to come first, and that's where a more capable platform starts to become a problem.

I used an arduino for my "finished" projects but keep in mind also that neither it nor the RPi (to my knowledge) are exactly rated/suitable for automotive use long term.

I'd have to agree. As much as I hate it, I have a quote from a modern-day leader that I have to respect:

"You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." --Donald Rumsfeld​

This project might push the envelope of what's possible. Hopefully in a good way, but I believe in honest assessments such as yours.

 

[beaups]

Believe it or not, I'm actually going to push back on this point. Why? Hear me out. I'd like to take this to the next level.

Using Android Auto emulation on the Raspberry Pi, the Uconnect radio becomes a visual interface with touchscreen for my project. It could convey deep information while making user input intuitive and easy. Even that aside, there's just so much more potential when you think bigger.

Just spitballing here, one such thing might be long-term data collection (a personal black-box recorder), perhaps using a proven Enterprise tool such as Splunk or one of its open-source counterparts for sifting through the data. Trending faults (something as simple as cylinder misfires) and locating when there's a big shift in their trajectory can be used to indicate or even predict faults. (Even more so when the data is voluntarily shared in a cloud-based system with other drivers. That plus maintenance history would be incredibly revealing... and with privacy respected, I would hope it to be revealing in a very good way!)

When you massively increase storage and computing power, so many new possibilities are unlocked. I'd say that the Raspberry Pi is perfect in this respect, but while I share your next concern (which I'll paste below), I'd say that mine would be cybersecurity. It has to come first, and that's where a more capable platform normally becomes a problem.

I'd have to agree. As much as I hate it, I have a quote from a modern-day leader that I have to respect:

"You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." --Donald Rumsfeld​

This might push the envelope a bit further. Hopefully in a good way, but I believe in that honest assessment.

All good. There are many ways to do these things. My point around simple is once you know the packets you need to send it can be done with a few lines of code on a simple RTOS device and not rely on a heavy/slow full OS/device to boot and work correctly. One other thing I'll add is if you are concerned about security, the implications of tying a full-blown linux computer with multiple tranceivers and thus a huge attack surface into your vehicle's CANbus is worth thinking about.

https://github.com/beaups/giulia_ESCape

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