CAFE Fines Repealed

[DaltonGang]

Sorry but no Jeep is a status symbol. Not even the Grand Wagoneer. Jeep is a "mainstream" or "everyman" nameplate, not a luxury or premium nameplate. The 392 sells what units it sells on the "shiny things" phenomena. I've got a neighbor who lives that life...he's got to have the newest big thing at any given time. If there's a pre-order for it, his name's on that list. To think about the money that guy has wasted in the time i've known him...he's got a nice house, but he could have an additional entire house with that money. I just can't understand that way of thinking.

Maybe, but I think it is more of a fun factor, for those that cannot afford the MercBenz AMG G63. The area I live has a lot of G63's and JL 392's, along with many more expensive vehicles. All about status and or fun. Whatever they can afford. Some of those people like to throw their toys in your face, but the majority I know, you would never know what they had , unless you saw them in it.
I had a guy throw his G63 in my face, about how fast it was, and what a tank it was. I told him i would be happy to race him off-road, which this is what they were built for. I pointed to his skinny High Performance street tires. I said we would race on a good off-road course, and at the end, we would see who would be smiling. Also, we would see who would have bigger repair bills. His wife didn't think this talk was funny,and threw out she paid for all the toys, and it was her G63, and it wasn't going off-road. She won the argument. He looked whooped.

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[Ron Texas]

Sorry but no Jeep is a status symbol. Not even the Grand Wagoneer. Jeep is a "mainstream" or "everyman" nameplate, not a luxury or premium nameplate. The 392 sells what units it sells on the "shiny things" phenomena. I've got a neighbor who lives that life...he's got to have the newest big thing at any given time. If there's a pre-order for it, his name's on that list. To think about the money that guy has wasted in the time i've known him...he's got a nice house, but he could have an additional entire house with that money. I just can't understand that way of thinking.

What's a status symbol today?

 

[alphawolff]

The 392 (and most cars) are not priced on a cost basis. They’re priced to what the consumer will pay. If the demand stays high the price stays high. Simple enough.

This. The 392 package probably costs the OEM ~10k over a base model JL. They're making 50k+ profit per unit sold. That's why we have the final final final edition. It was making so much profit that even Traveres couldn't kill it off.

Most top tier trims are profit hogs for sure.

 

[S2k Chris]

I already paid a $4500 upcharge for V6+8AT. I’d love a 5.7L for a few $k on top of that, but if I’m honest the 3.6L mileage is already dumb for my usage, V8 would probably be even worse.

 

[Willys.JLU.2021]

Maybe to a certain extent, but most of the bloated cost is coming directly from Stellantis. I have 3 data points to back this up.

1st data point: the CAFE fine is $14 per 0.1 MPG under the standard. For the sake of simplicity, let's say the standard for the 392 was 50 MPG (in reality, it would be lower due to the size of the vehicle, so this is a worst case calculation). That would mean each 392 would cost $14 × 500 = $7,000. Yet the 392 MSRP Is around $40,000 more than a non-392 Rubi.

2nd data point: when the 392 was first released, it was around $80,000. The current edition is $20,000 more than that. The CAFE standard has not changed that drastically in that short amount of time.

3rd data point: when Ford was offering employee pricing earlier this year, the comparable model in terms of price and capability, the Bronco Raptor, was selling for over $20,000 BELOW the MSRP of around $100,000. That means that even selling the Raptor at $80,000 is still considered profitable for Ford, so the extra $20,000 is just a bonus for them.

That isn't me saying that the current CAFE standards aren't completely unrealistic and damaging to both consumers and auto makers. However, much of the "cost" of CAFE goes unseen, because it is baked into the engineering costs of the vehicle. Unlike CAFE fines, engineering costs per vehicle decrease for each additional vehicle sold, so that's why they have to sell more vehicles to make up for the additional engineering due to CAFE.

Perfect examples of these additional engineering costs would be ESS and FAD on the Wrangler, both of which are widely hated by owners.

So while reducing CAFE fines will inevitable lower the costs of vehicles, it will take time because vehicles that are already designed to meet the standard already have that cost built in. And the CAFE fines will do nothing to address these low-volume, high-performance, high-profit models. However, it MAY encourage more models that appeal to a lot of consumers, such as a 5.7l Wrangler or Gladiator.

Whats crazy about CAFE standards ie gas mileage is 40 years ago my CJ 7 got 20 miles per gallon on the highway( around 17 in town)..then my YJ in 1993 got 20 on the highway then my 2004 Rubicon got 20 mpg now my 2021 Wyllis gets 20 mpg on the highway and they all got around 16 to 17 in town..not a damn has changed

 

[TheRaven]

What's a status symbol today?

That's a great question actually. One could argue that almost nothing is a status symbol in a society where people can buy things WAAAAAY beyond their means using creative financing. I mean I have no business being anywhere near a new Lamborghini...but if I really wanted one, I could buy one. It would be a terrible financial decision for me. It also depends on where you live. So I don't know if I can tell you what a status symbol would be to/for you...but I can say that a Jeep would not be...nor a Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Honda...etc.

Whats crazy about CAFE standards ie gas mileage is 40 years ago my CJ 7 got 20 miles per gallon on the highway( around 17 in town)..then my YJ in 1993 got 20 on the highway then my 2004 Rubicon got 20 mpg now my 2021 Wyllis gets 20 mpg on the highway and they all got around 16 to 17 in town..not a damn has changed

Well...not always. For instance, I once had a 1995 Yukon that got 13mpg highway. Later on in life I had a 2010 Tahoe that got 19.9mpg highway, and new ones today can hit 22mpg. But adding to your point, my environmentalist aunt had a 1985 Honda CRZ that got like 50mpg highway...the latest ones can't touch that....hell, many hybrids can't even hit that mark.

 

[Willys.JLU.2021]

That's a great question actually. One could argue that almost nothing is a status symbol in a society where people can buy things WAAAAAY beyond their means using creative financing. I mean I have no business being anywhere near a new Lamborghini...but if I really wanted one, I could buy one. It would be a terrible financial decision for me. It also depends on where you live. So I don't know if I can tell you what a status symbol would be to/for you...but I can say that a Jeep would not be...nor a Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Honda...etc.



Well...not always. For instance, I once had a 1995 Yukon that got 13mpg highway. Later on in life I had a 2010 Tahoe that got 19.9mpg highway, and new ones today can hit 22mpg. But adding to your point, my environmentalist aunt had a 1985 Honda CRZ that got like 50mpg highway...the latest ones can't touch that....hell, many hybrids can't even hit that mark.

 

[Willys.JLU.2021]

I do remember the crz getting 50 mpg..i figured by now it would be 100 mpg..yes the V8s that used to get 13 or so now get 21 or so highway..My 2017 Ram 1500 got 20 highway.my 1979 Jeep Cherokee.Chief got around 11 mpg..Ironically my 1995 Impala SS with the Corvette V8 got 25 on the highway.
But it just doesnt seem like a lot of progress has been made with the Jeep Wranglers except for the hybrid

 

[S2k Chris]

What's a status symbol today?

One of my favorite things about the Wrangler is that it is status-less. I drive it to the office, no one raises their eyes. I drive it to my country club, no one raises their eyes. I drive it to Home Depot or Menards and no one raises their eyes. It’s impossible to understand the financial status of a Wrangler driver by their Wrangler.


Except you rich bastards in your 392s

 

[Riverjeep]

One of my favorite things about the Wrangler is that it is status-less. I drive it to the office, no one raises their eyes. I drive it to my country club, no one raises their eyes. I drive it to Home Depot or Menards and no one raises their eyes. It’s impossible to understand the financial status of a Wrangler driver by their Wrangler.


Except you rich bastards in your 392s

But, but, my 392 looks just like everybody else’s Rubicon with XR Package!

 

[Riverjeep]

What's a status symbol today?

In my opinion it is any of the Range Rovers. I read somewhere that 98% of the folks driving them do so to impress other people!

 

[KCSgtMaj]

This week fines for failing to hit prescribed fuel efficiency standards were repealed. Tesla sold credits (at a discount) to offset these fines to other automakers in the US. Their revenue was $1.6 billion last year, which is substantial.

Models, engines and options which increased these fines were likely priced to include the fine. That may account for the very high price of the 392 and XR packages.

What's going to happen next? Will we finally see a 5.7 Wrangler for $2k more than a V6 Automatic?

Ha, ha, ha, NO.

 

[Nine Ball]

One of my favorite things about the Wrangler is that it is status-less. I drive it to the office, no one raises their eyes. I drive it to my country club, no one raises their eyes. I drive it to Home Depot or Menards and no one raises their eyes. It’s impossible to understand the financial status of a Wrangler driver by their Wrangler.


Except you rich bastards in your 392s

I've been daily driving my 392 for nearly 2 years now. Nobody notices that it is something more special than any other Wrangler, except for diehard Jeep enthusiasts that can tell the difference. I enjoy that it's basically off the radar to 99.9% of other commuters. Now, when I take the TRX out, people always ask about it, make positive gestures, take pics of it, etc... Both were around the same price when I bought them new.

 

[Bayrat]

That's a great question actually. One could argue that almost nothing is a status symbol in a society where people can buy things WAAAAAY beyond their means using creative financing. I mean I have no business being anywhere near a new Lamborghini...but if I really wanted one, I could buy one. It would be a terrible financial decision for me. It also depends on where you live. So I don't know if I can tell you what a status symbol would be to/for you...but I can say that a Jeep would not be...nor a Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Honda...etc.



Well...not always. For instance, I once had a 1995 Yukon that got 13mpg highway. Later on in life I had a 2010 Tahoe that got 19.9mpg highway, and new ones today can hit 22mpg. But adding to your point, my environmentalist aunt had a 1985 Honda CRZ that got like 50mpg highway...the latest ones can't touch that....hell, many hybrids can't even hit that mark.

It's about control, nothing more...
My older Jeeps with the flat four and the straight six produced better mileage than most of the current Wranglers. On the other hand, the older Jeeps weighed in at quite a bit less. I had a full sized Chrysler 383 2 bbl which would run 18mpg around town and a VW bug winter car that really didn't seem to use fuel etc... so the mileage has not really changed all that much sans the electric vehicles.

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