2023 Rubicon First Drive Impressions

[LKG]

I agree, its is almost 3x the cost of my 2003 with every option. When I picked mine last night the dealer had just gotten a delivery and they had a JLU that was almost $70k MSRP!!!!

What has happened to Jeep as we know them is they have gone mainstream. BUT Jeep (Wrangler) Sales are WAY WAY down, from a high of 240k in 2018 to a bit over 140k in 2022.

I cannot address profit on Jeep today. But I do know that historically Jeep has been the most PROFITABLE vehicle sold in the US. In the early days, Jeep was lucky to sell 20k units a year, but the profit was about 80%.

When MB bought Chrysler they were going to kill the Jeep Wrangler due to low sales numbers. Then Jeep told MB you don't understand, yea we sell many but the ones we do sell many but we have the highest margins of anything sold in the US. Look at how often they change body style. Look at the body, a box on 4 wheels, not zackly difficult to press out, no complex swooping fenders etc. They are still simple, not as simple as the TJ or early Jeeps doors were an option. Organic AC did not show up until the TJ.

If I was Jeep I would build a BASE model and when I say base I mean stripped bare. It would come in 2 versions: 2/4 door. 1 would be a Rubicon grade with the transfer case and axles, the other a non-Rubicon version with a regular transfer case and axles. These 2 would called "B" models, B as in Builder grade, aimed at folks who want to build a OR rig. FEW options: AC, trans and not much else from there.

Jeep contacted me and wanted to meet and I agreed. This was back in 2003. I brought the "Builder" concept up and the Engineers thought it was a great idea, Marketing thought it take sales away from the higher-end Jeep that has more profit. THe meeting was with the Jeep Rubicon Engineers and the Head of Jeep Wrangler Marketing and Jeep Wrangler Manufacturing. I did mention that other Mfg had done since the late 60s in special bare-bones models. Chev did with the COPO Camaro and I think Dodge did it with one of the models and it came with the 426 Hemi and was meant to be racers and barely legal for the street. I think shops and individuals that were serious hard-core OR folks would buy and build. It would a limited run like the Camaro COPO which is about 160 units annually. I would have been a buyer when I had my Jeep off-road shop.

Sorry for day dreams...

Sorry to nit pick but the 147K is just for the first three quarters. It will be interesting to see sales numbers when they finally do a mid model refresh as well. I assume that would have happened in 23 if it not for the Covid mess.

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[Old Jeeper]

Sorry to nit pick but the 147K is just for the first three quarters. It will be interesting to see sales numbers when they finally do a mid model refresh as well. I assume that would have happened in 23 if it not for the Covid mess.

You are not "Nit Picking" My number came from Jeep for Wranglers and yes there is a quarter left, but if you at the numbers you wil find they have been going down since 2018, not sure why....

Still I think a couple of BASE model Jeeps like the COPOs of Dodge and Camaro. They base BASE. Chevy called about 2 or 3 years and asked if wanted a Camaro COPO...I thought on it I had alwasy wanted a Camaro, but just never bought one. The COPOs are not licensable in most states when you get them. They are meant to be builders for the race circuit. They are loaded with good stuff from the engine choices to the driveline. IIRC the Camaro had 3 engine choices. Drag racing, Circle track and gymkhana racing??? I stopped racing a long time ago after I turned my favors to building and offroading.

 

[LKG]

You are not "Nit Picking" My number came from Jeep for Wranglers and yes there is a quarter left, but if you at the numbers you wil find they have been going down since 2018, not sure why....

Still I think a couple of BASE model Jeeps like the COPOs of Dodge and Camaro. They base BASE. Chevy called about 2 or 3 years and asked if wanted a Camaro COPO...I thought on it I had alwasy wanted a Camaro, but just never bought one. The COPOs are not licensable in most states when you get them. They are meant to be builders for the race circuit. They are loaded with good stuff from the engine choices to the driveline. IIRC the Camaro had 3 engine choices. Drag racing, Circle track and gymkhana racing??? I stopped racing a long time ago after I turned my favors to building and offroading.

I imagine 21 and 22 numbers suffered with the pandemic and I do think there will be a surge after a refresh especially with the entertainment system. The Wrangler is still running the 4th generation Uconnect while the rest of Jeep, Ram, etc. all have gen 5 available. Like it or not people like their tech myself included (now). Keep in mind I was coming from a 93 YJ but when I was ordering my 22JL I was going to get a plain old sport, I can roll up my windows, didn't need the fancy radio but my wife and my buddies talked me into getting power windows, navigation yada yada. After about two days, I was glad they did.

I agree it's too damn much money and the JL is a far cry from the old Jeeps but in order for them to sell 200K Wranglers they have to give the majority of people what they want. Let's face it that majority rarely do Jeep stuff in their Jeeps. The big plus for me though, I can enjoy a road trip then go do some wheelin, I loved my old YJ but it just wasn't fun on long highway trips.

I would love to see Jeep build a stripped down version of a TJ or even a YJ to compete with the side by side market and guys that want to build a dedicated off roader but won't hold my breath.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I imagine 21 and 22 numbers suffered with the pandemic and I do think there will be a surge after a refresh especially with the entertainment system. The Wrangler is still running the 4th generation Uconnect while the rest of Jeep, Ram, etc. all have gen 5 available. Like it or not people like their tech myself included (now). Keep in mind I was coming from a 93 YJ but when I was ordering my 22JL I was going to get a plain old sport, I can roll up my windows, didn't need the fancy radio but my wife and my buddies talked me into getting power windows, navigation yada yada. After about two days, I was glad they did.

I agree it's too damn much money and the JL is a far cry from the old Jeeps but in order for them to sell 200K Wranglers they have to give the majority of people what they want. Let's face it that majority rarely do Jeep stuff in their Jeeps. The big plus for me though, I can enjoy a road trip then go do some wheelin, I loved my old YJ but it just wasn't fun on long highway trips.

I would love to see Jeep build a stripped down version of a TJ or even a YJ to compete with the side by side market and guys that want to build a dedicated off roader but won't hold my breath.

You are right. IF you want to go HARD CORE, the TJ and the straight 6 cannot be beat. The TJ and its LACK of electronics and an engine that will deliver 70% of its torque at 1500 rpm. Been in my TJ Rubicon with river water up to my chest, I looked down and my coffee cup was floating by me....by the way, the Warn 9.5 Ti will work UNDER water, ask me how know.

The 2 things I REALLY REALLY wanted on my new 2023 Rubicon, I did not get them...Cold Air Intake and Snorkle. They were on my order, but when we went to order, they had dropped off...not that I thought it would be used or better, just look KOOL, neat to have.

When I built my Jeep on line on Jeep.com and it out to $55,XXX with the CAI and the Snorkel. But when it showed up itwas $63,000 on the nose without the CAI and snorkel. Don't ask how that happened, but the windowsticker tells the tale of the tape.

 

[Titleist23]

Hi All- First-Time posting. I just joined the forum to see owners' impression of the 2 door JL Rubicon. I ordered mine October 7th with the 3.6L mated to 8 speed auto & 4.10 gears. I did add 4:1 Rock Trac for the winter roads driving. I was surprised at the pricing but I very glad to make the jump into the Jeep community. Appreciate the firsthand feedback on this thread.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Hi All- First-Time posting. I just joined the forum to see owners' impression of the 2 door JL Rubicon. I ordered mine October 7th with the 3.6L mated to 8 speed auto & 4.10 gears. I did add 4:1 Rock Trac for the winter roads driving. I was surprised at the pricing but I very glad to make the jump into the Jeep community. Appreciate the firsthand feedback on this thread.

Welcome to the forum, this is a good people forum. I can assure you there are many forums you will quit in a hurry, bad people fights and comments like 'what did you buy that color Mr stupid, etc. Have not seen that here.

Lots of folks with the knowledge that can offer some help or guidance to mitigate an issue of some kind.
Kick back, grab a cup of Joe and enjoy the forum.

You will love you Jeep and if like my last 17 that I ordered (yea, OLD man) out of 17 new Jeeps started in 1985 only 5 times have a driven-in for warranty service. Hope your fortune is as good as mine.

 

[Asuriyan]

However, you run the risk of option interference and electrical issues. Were I Jeep I would have a switch on there that is labeled 'Hard Core Off Road' and this would turn off all of the electrical and radar and other bells and whistles that mine has.

I see where you're coming from with this. I just ordered a JLR to replace my '21 JLUR and I stepped down a few levels with options and complexity. For starters, I went with a manual; I've enjoyed the 2.0T/8SP combo immensely, but this was my first automatic in 15 years, and it occurred to me recently that the days of being able to buy any new vehicle with three pedals are likely numbered. (I would hope that when push comes to shove, Jeep, Honda and Toyota continue to resist this trend for as long as possible - I'm not sure that any other manufacturer remembers what a clutch is.)

I also ditched the safety packages. Ordered at just the right time for them to be unavailable, technically, but I actually think I'm coming out ahead. Adaptive cruise control is really the only loss that might sting. But it seems so at odds with the concept of rowing your own, and I truthfully can't say it's made me a better driver... only that drafting trucks on the highway to boost my MPGs was way easier. The rest of the sensors seem really superfluous, especially on a short Jeep with a good backup camera.

All of that said, pretty much all the 'nanny features' are disabled the minute you stick it in 4LO, so I don't think they constitute a reliability weak link. I also haven't had a single issue with any of them after tweaking the sensitivity and the alerts when I bought it. I don't regret getting the safety packages on my 4-door any more than I regret not getting them on my 2-door.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I see where you're coming from with this. I just ordered a JLR to replace my '21 JLUR and I stepped down a few levels with options and complexity. For starters, I went with a manual; I've enjoyed the 2.0T/8SP combo immensely, but this was my first automatic in 15 years, and it occurred to me recently that the days of being able to buy any new vehicle with three pedals are likely numbered. (I would hope that when push comes to shove, Jeep, Honda and Toyota continue to resist this trend for as long as possible - I'm not sure that any other manufacturer remembers what a clutch is.)

I also ditched the safety packages. Ordered at just the right time for them to be unavailable, technically, but I actually think I'm coming out ahead. Adaptive cruise control is really the only loss that might sting. But it seems so at odds with the concept of rowing your own, and I truthfully can't say it's made me a better driver... only that drafting trucks on the highway to boost my MPGs was way easier. The rest of the sensors seem really superfluous, especially on a short Jeep with a good backup camera.

All of that said, pretty much all the 'nanny features' are disabled the minute you stick it in 4LO, so I don't think they constitute a reliability weak link. I also haven't had a single issue with any of them after tweaking the sensitivity and the alerts when I bought it. I don't regret getting the safety packages on my 4-door any more than I regret not getting them on my 2-door.

I got every package except for the cold weather option, its a South Florida thing, its 85 outside right now, getting ready to get in the pool.

My F 450 King Ranch is LOADED with all those options its like WOW, they are really useful (not so sure about the massaging seats!!!) but that comes with the heated and AC seats...No AC seats in the Jeep so I went with the cloth option, too hot, too humid down for leather...

So if you looking for SERIOUS OR capability then I would go to a Sport model at $30k and , strip the driveline first thing. Throw in a set of Dynatrac Pro Rocks w/4:88s, and the Rubicon transfer case and I don't know enough about the 392 engine, I doubt I go with it. My choice would be a 383 Chevy Stroker crate motor. 350 cu in stroked out to 383, built for truck replacement tons of low end torque...but I am a rock guy, no mud on my shoes.

Talk abou electrics, here I am crossing a raging river to rescue a guy and his jeep heading down stream, water up to my chest, winch works UNDER WATER thank the lord, I saved him and his Jeep and my TJ water never bothered it, few elctrics on it, keep it simple. Bet if I did this in my JL Rubi I would be Electro-cuted for sure, LOL

 

[Asuriyan]

I got every package except for the cold weather option, its a South Florida thing, its 85 outside right now, getting ready to get in the pool.

My F 450 King Ranch is LOADED with all those options its like WOW, they are really useful (not so sure about the massaging seats!!!) but that comes with the heated and AC seats...No AC seats in the Jeep so I went with the cloth option, too hot, too humid down for leather...

So if you looking for SERIOUS OR capability then I would go to a Sport model at $30k and , strip the driveline first thing. Throw in a set of Dynatrac Pro Rocks w/4:88s, and the Rubicon transfer case and I don't know enough about the 392 engine, I doubt I go with it. My choice would be a 383 Chevy Stroker crate motor. 350 cu in stroked out to 383, built for truck replacement tons of low end torque...but I am a rock guy, no mud on my shoes.

Talk abou electrics, here I am crossing a raging river to rescue a guy and his jeep heading down stream, water up to my chest, winch works UNDER WATER thank the lord, I saved him and his Jeep and my TJ water never bothered it, few elctrics on it, keep it simple. Bet if I did this in my JL Rubi I would be Electro-cuted for sure, LOL

I haven't had it quite up to the door handles, but I've been in over my tires on a couple occasions in my JL and caught in heavy rain without a roof once, and never had so much as a hiccup, electronics-wise. Did blow a tire underwater, once, though.

They don't fuck around with the waterproofing. My issues come from other details. Much, much harder to replace the back bumper with the sensors, for starters. The sensors themselves are on the fragile side, too. If you lift it (or even change tire size) and the windshield breaks, you're SOL on anything that relies on the sensor module in front of the mirror; it can't be recalibrated to the new windshield with a significantly altered ride height, because trigonometry is hard for computers, apparently. And, I didn't even get a discount on my insurance for the collision avoidance - it actually was surcharged because of the added cost of the sensors. Bastards.

The remaining extra electrical complexity is mostly standard to the JL as a platform, Sport included, and they're all things I have a plan to address if they ever become an issue:
1) Locker sensors - the one Rubi-specific potential gremlin - I can pot the sensors, and if one does fail, at least they're sold as a separate module now (it used to be a whole damned rear axle).
2) Dual-battery / ESS. This has already demonstrated its weakness on my 4-door. I can disable the start-stop entirely with the Tazer, but ultimately I'll be installing a proper dual-battery kit (Genesis) and getting rid of that ridiculous motorcycle battery.
3) Front-axle disconnect. Easily enough bypassed if I run into problems. It's electric, but it's miles better than the JK's hydraulic FAD.
4) Infotainment stuff. 7-inch touchscreen is standard equipment across the board. But, it's still UConnect 4 (the more stable product by far), and as I mentioned, I've tested the water resistance successfully. I still have actual buttons for the important functions, too.

 

[J0E]

If you want to go play at the 10 trail-rated levels either get a base Rubicon with zero options or just go with a base JL and strip out the axles and transfer case and build from there...I would pull the engine also, the last engine Jeep had for OR was the straight 6.

No rational reason to do an engine swap. 9+ requires JLU wheelbase or $35K to stretch a JL

4.88 is a nice new option, just toss on a 2.5" lift kit, rear LC's, and 37's. That's what I did, sans the 4.88 which wasn't an option.

Sorry for the double image.

That's what the Edit button is for

 

[J0E]

I
So if you looking for SERIOUS OR capability then I would go to a Sport model at $30k and , strip the driveline first thing. Throw in a set of Dynatrac Pro Rocks w/4:88s, and the Rubicon transfer case and I don't know enough about the 392 engine, I doubt I go with it. My choice would be a 383 Chevy Stroker crate motor. 350 cu in stroked out to 383, built for truck replacement tons of low end torque...but I am a rock guy, no mud on my shoes.

That's a tiny improvement. Serious is DSTRAC Ultra 70 Axle Set JL 40/40-Spline, High Pinion or Fusion axles. I've got a JLR but I'm going to build a JLUR on 43's with DSTRAC axles. With Sahara you can't get a body colored hard top. I've got white for Hawaii, Moab in the summer, etc. So Sahara is a no go. You also miss out on the 4:1 xfer case. You're talking engine swap and then suggesting saving pennies by going with a Sahara?

Changing the engine does nothing for crawling. If you're racing in the sand, get the 392.
BTW, gears make torque. My 2.0T with stock Ruby gears in M1 on 37's climbs vertical at 1,200 RPM. With stock 33's, it went vertical at idle. I've got 4:88 envy.

LOL To many years of driving 2 doors albeit I tried in 2015 I picked up a 4 door Rubicon Hard Rock Edition, a great rig, but not me. Even my Jeep Cherokee was a 2 door. Prob a lot stems from never having kids and being single most of my life and a life of Corvettes and Jeeps, going back to 64.

You can't own a Corvette and think a 392 is a good idea. Good luck convincing the rest of that.

I vastly like the JLR over the JLUR but I"m forced to go with a JLUR on 43's to do 9+ trails. I can't see spending $35K on a JLR stretch.

I stopped racing a long time ago after I turned my favors to building and offroading.

Ditto, another thing that disqualifies the 392.

My wife says just put 40's on the JLR and forget about the JLUR. She also vastly likes the JLR over the JLUR.

I will hazard a guess, but the 392 in the 2 dr would not be a good combo to to too much weight forward.

When they started selling the Hemi engine in the aftermarket, every guy that got lots of overtime in the shoe store in the mall found some shop to stuff a 426 hemi up the Nose of his TJ Rubicon. For several years I led runs in Moab and I only played on the 7+ trails. I had guys come in from as far as Mass and Wash State and we would spend a week running the hard stuff.

Big engine = BIG radiators to keep it cool and big Tans coolers, time you add up all the wight it was nose down. They needed a snorkel just breathe...

In all the years I did that, never had a hemi make the full week and broke down, they were broke, overheated and just not good wheelers.

392's have range anxiety.
Agree with everything on big engines = big problems but disagree with the following

Wheeling: If you want to play were the big boys do on trials like Pritchett Canyon in Moab and Rubicon trails. Well here is a TIP: your rig needs to be balanced. It's ALL about your connection with Terra Firma. You can rent scales for the 4 corners, you want 25 lbs +/- all the way around. Especially if you are a rock crawler because rack crawling is a dance and you want equal weight at each corner of your rig.

You can't do that if you want to fill the gas tank and then 80%. I've never heard anywhere close to that close.

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