JL JUMPSTART

[allieboy]

why wouldnt lead acid jumper vs lithium work? dead battery could draw in current before jump?

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[Rhinebeck01]

@Rahneld

The link in your post takes you to a post I made in July 2018. Can tell you that since then, I and other's here, have learned so much more about the Main and Aux batteries and how they play together lets say.

As for me, I think at this point in time / now .... I have a pretty good or at least a much better understanding of the aforementioned. I know I am lets say up to speed on jump starting the JL and more.

I encourage you and other's interested in learning more on this talking point, to do a forum search in regard to all posts made by forum member @Jebiruph . You read all of the posts he has made over the last say 6 months..... and you will have a better understanding to say the least of the two batteries in a 3.6L JL. @Jebiruph has posted pics, diagrams, explanations and more.... much more. DO take the time to to do lots of research.

@Jebiruph, also provided me with / sent me, one of his jumpers, which I have been testing with over the last few months. I know @WranglerMan was also sent a jumper and he too has been testing.

In closing, there is so much I have learned and I'm still learning more each day. There are so many unknowns with this battery(s) thing.

I know I am better prepared now then I was when I had my battery depletion and no start situation. For sure I am much better prepared now then I was.

.

 

[Jebiruph]

I've read that such devices may not provide adequate current for the JL because jumping it with them is first, as described above, about reaching a minimum charge in both batteries before cranking can be attempted, much less succeed.

But couldn't both this wait time AND the inability of such devices to adequately jump the JL be addressed (maybe this is more academic than practical as there are other techniques) by disconnecting the leads to the main battery, and connecting the original poster's "powerbank" to these leads?

I ask because wouldn't the above charge only the smaller battery: faster than charging both, and give it enough current to power the start relay connected to it, to signal the engine starter to fire?

I've got this right, while the engine starter is connected to the main (and here disconnected/dead) main battery, it's backed up by the ESS battery---e.g. people being able to start their JLs with the ESS battery only. The ESS battery could devote its power in this example to the engine crank rather than split it with also charging the main battery(??)

Once the JL's turned over, the "powerbank" could be packed up, and the battery terminals reconnect to the main battery for the alternator to charge both batteries(??)

Please correct this if wrong: I want to spread fact and understand. : - )

Keeping these two things in mind, the first being it seems that the aux battery fails more often than the main battery. The second being they say you're not supposed to make a live cable connection to a discharged battery due to the possibility of a spark igniting fumes created from the battery discharging. And third, if it's really, really cold, even a fully charged aux battery may not have enough power for a start (I'm not aware of a cold weather start with the aux battery being tested yet).

So, if your sure the aux battery is just discharged and not defective, and the outside temperature is reasonable, it should be easier to get started by disconnecting the main battery and jumping only the aux battery. If it starts, you have to decided how you want to reconnect the main battery, I would probably drive some to get the aux charged and possible fumes cleared, then reconnect live if there was no alternative.

 

[Rahneld]

Keeping these two things in mind, the first being it seems that the aux battery fails more often than the main battery.

...and reasons...you're justifications for not doing this below (fumes) notwithstanding...why directly charging the aux battery in isolation might make for a quicker start, or start at all if running off a powerpack, which seems to not be adequate for the JL from what I've read here.

The second being they say you're not supposed to make a live cable connection to a discharged battery due to the possibility of a spark igniting fumes created from the battery discharging.

Very fair sir. When you say this are you suggesting physical distance between the charging source and the battery/fumes near it? I ask because I thought that connecting to the disconnected main battery cables somewhat distanced from the ESS battery, to charge this small battery, like I suggested, might work for the same reasons that your N1 to N2 jumpering idea shows promise: happening in the Power Distribution Center and distal to what might be a fuming ESS battery/safer.

Of course if both batteries are dead and spewing fumes, and the cables I disconnect from the main battery are in proximity to it, your point remains.

Maybe a powerpack best connects to N1 and a ground, which is distal from the fumes of either battery but--????? a direct connect to the ESS battery??? (Is that accurate ..?)

I went here https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-battery-diagram.14401/page-4#post-398713 and referenced your diagram, but I know everyone (especially me) is still learning.

I have learned faster reading what you had to discover. Thank you.













And third, if it's really, really cold, even a fully charged aux battery may not have enough power for a start (I'm not aware of a cold weather start with the aux battery being tested yet).

So, if your sure the aux battery is just discharged and not defective, and the outside temperature is reasonable, it should be easier to get started by disconnecting the main battery and jumping only the aux battery. If it starts, you have to decided how you want to reconnect the main battery, I would probably drive some to get the aux charged and possible fumes cleared, then reconnect live if there was no alternative.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jebiruph]

...and reasons...you're justifications for not doing this below (fumes) notwithstanding...why directly charging the aux battery in isolation might make for a quicker start, or start at all if running off a powerpack, which seems to not be adequate for the JL from what I've read here.



Very fair sir. When you say this are you suggesting physical distance between the charging source and the battery/fumes near it? I ask because I thought that connecting to the disconnected main battery cables somewhat distanced from the ESS battery, to charge this small battery, like I suggested, might work for the same reasons that your N1 to N2 jumpering idea shows promise: happening in the Power Distribution Center and distal to what might be a fuming ESS battery/safer.

Of course if both batteries are dead and spewing fumes, and the cables I disconnect from the main battery are in proximity to it, your point remains.

Maybe a powerpack best connects to N1 and a ground, which is distal from the fumes of either battery but--????? a direct connect to the ESS battery??? (Is that accurate ..?)

I went here https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-battery-diagram.14401/page-4#post-398713 and referenced your diagram, but I know everyone (especially me) is still learning.

I have learned faster reading what you had to discover. Thank you.

I'm not quite sure I'm following you, are you asking me for reasons why I agree with your jumping only the aux battery? If you haven't seen it yet, I offer an explanation of battery charging here.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-battery-basics.20794/
By just removing either terminal from the main battery, it will be disconnected and leave the aux battery connected. You can then jump the aux battery from the main battery positive terminal and a good ground away from potential battery fumes.

 

[Rahneld]

I'm not quite sure I'm following you, are you asking me for reasons why I agree with your jumping only the aux battery?

Yes. I was checking to see if, at least in theory, what I said would work--so as to gauge if I understood.

Thank you for that.

====

How would you feel--your own concerns about doing this hookup at everyone's own risk acknowledged--about someone permanently installing your 30 amp N2 to N1 connection....BUT, hooking it up to a SPST 30 amp toggle switch, that by default doesn't allow energy (i.e. is "off") to flow in the wire?

The operator would have to, upon cold crank failure, and having determined the ESS battery to solely be the de-engerized battery, flip this switch.

Thank you.

(I'm thinking about the alternative of installing your N2-N1 wire without the fuse, and trying to get the fuse into the slot in the freezing cold, (which I can't find) only for the fuse (with my luck) to fry on insertion....better distancing myself from that with the toggle switch and pre-installed fuse.)

 

[WXman]

@allieboy

Why should I search for YOU ? Takes seconds for you, the OP, to search for yourself.

Bad thing is, with the software this forum uses, a person doesn't even have to do a search. It automatically displays similar threads AS YOU ARE TYPING THE TITLE FOR THE THREAD so I have no idea how so many people keep posting redundant threads. It's mind numbing.

 

[Greg H]

why wouldnt lead acid jumper vs lithium work? dead battery could draw in current before jump?

On the 2.0 the lithium battery is 48v and the lead acid is a 12v battery so they can't jump each other. If your talking about a 12v lithium jumping a 12v lead acid that would work.

 

[TIDALWAVE]

Genesis Dual Battery Kit: I plan on installing a Genesis Kit which replaces the OEM batteries with 2 #25 batteries. Any jumper advice if both Odyssey batteries are too low to start the engine?

 

[Jebiruph]

Yes. I was checking to see if, at least in theory, what I said would work--so as to gauge if I understood.

Thank you for that.

====

How would you feel--your own concerns about doing this hookup at everyone's own risk acknowledged--about someone permanently installing your 30 amp N2 to N1 connection....BUT, hooking it up to a SPST 30 amp toggle switch, that by default doesn't allow energy (i.e. is "off") to flow in the wire?

The operator would have to, upon cold crank failure, and having determined the ESS battery to solely be the de-engerized battery, flip this switch.

Thank you.

(I'm thinking about the alternative of installing your N2-N1 wire without the fuse, and trying to get the fuse into the slot in the freezing cold, (which I can't find) only for the fuse (with my luck) to fry on insertion....better distancing myself from that with the toggle switch and pre-installed fuse.)

The fuse does two things, acts as an on/off switch and provides circuit protection, your toggle switch would not provide any circuit protection and I would not do it.

 

[Jebiruph]

Genesis Dual Battery Kit: I plan on installing a Genesis Kit which replaces the OEM batteries with 2 #25 batteries. Any jumper advice if both Odyssey batteries are too low to start the engine?

The Genesis system it is a battery management system designed to automatically separate the batteries if the voltage drops low enough to impact starting. If properly implemented, the main battery shouldn't get drained, that's the purpose of the system. On the JL 3.6 ESS, it replaces the main and aux batteries with a single battery, it effectively acts as a permanent jumper.

 

[Rahneld]

The fuse does two things, acts as an on/off switch and provides circuit protection, your toggle switch would not provide any circuit protection and I would not do it.

I'm sorry sir. Maybe I was unclear. My thoughts on a toggle switch were as an addition to the 30 amp fuse, not as a replacement for it.

Given that change, what are your thoughts then? I'm thinking that no worse could come of anything provided the toggle switch is rated at (at least) 30 amps as well (as is the wire)

Would that be your general consensus too in light of this clarrification on my part--that it would likely do no harm?

Thank you.

 

[allieboy]

If I have used jumper and removed aux ground...will a powerbank now jump main battery?

 

[Jebiruph]

I'm sorry sir. Maybe I was unclear. My thoughts on a toggle switch were as an addition to the 30 amp fuse, not as a replacement for it.

Given that change, what are your thoughts then? I'm thinking that no worse could come of anything provided the toggle switch is rated at (at least) 30 amps as well (as is the wire)

Would that be your general consensus too in light of this clarrification on my part--that it would likely do no harm?

Thank you.

I agree it will do know harm. I actually do not know what the current demands are for the jumper, 30 amps was the largest conveniently available at the time. Given that switch cost and size increase with current ratings, you might want to experiment with lower value fuses to see how low of a rating is actually necessary before getting the switch.

 

[Jebiruph]

If I have used jumper and removed aux ground...will a powerbank now jump main battery?

It will theoretically work, the variables are how much power is in the powerbank and how drained is the main battery.

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