The "hate" on Jeeps + Speed

[2nd 392]

I had a 2009 R/T Challenger 6 speed track pak bought brand new. With a Vortech on it, it was kind of stupid fast. But the SRT suspension was absolutely needed, as one of the things they got period correct on the new R/T suspension was the super floaty feel over 125 just like my old Rallye 340. Under damped and floaty. I swapped a complete SRT setup in fairly quickly. The only old Mopar I liked at higher speed was the T/A I had back in the day.

We currently have a 2014 Charger Pursuit. They got huge brakes in early 2014 (14.5" front and the 13.8" rear for R/T and base SRT). Factory oil cooler, external trans cooler, power steering cooler, large radiator. Anything that was suspect I replaced. Low miles when we got it (47K). We bought it to use for open road racing. With a Procharger setup, base tune put it around 460 at the wheels on 91 octane. Custom tune is sitting right on 500HP at the wheels (one size larger pulley, full custom tune). Still on 91 octane. CANNOT run it on anything lower.

The car is limited at 170 which is what the tires are rated for. We've taken two 2nd place finishes at the Silver State, about .030 out of first which irks me. Probably will do it again after we retire. It ran 12.7 @ 111 last time out with 4000' D.A. on the street tires. Obviously quicker at lower altitude, should be in the 12.30's down there. My 60' is around 2.00 which hurts the E.T. a bit, but all I do is drive it to the track, air down to 28 psi, make some runs, air up with a Ryobi pump and drive home. 91 pump gas. I run it like I drive it, no drag radials, no suspension mods. Yes, it would be quicker with better tires, but I'm not spending $1200 to go to the strip once a year.

We bought the 2014 because that was the year (late production) they went to the big brakes, but they also changed the suspension parts in the rear to change camber/caster rates for high speed stability (Pursuit package BR9 in 2014 was when they did this). Everything after early 2014 got the updates. Same stuff the SRT got in 2015 going forward. It's rock solid to 170, can't even imagine trying that in my old Mopars. 150 was getting MIGHTY interesting in those. 150 in this thing feels like you could commute.

Road racing at 110 and 120 average speed (top end in the 140 range for making up time when needed, I've run 10 miles at 140) just feels like it could do it all day. Running 90 miles one way in 45 minutes is not a big deal. Feels like you're moving, but feels like it could do it until it ran out of gas. Temps all stay right where they should be, trans, coolant, oil, all just like you're commuting on a warm day. A/C works at speed which is important when it's a bit warmer out, because full race suits and Nomex aren't exactly cool. Incidentally, we measured fuel mileage in the 110 and 120 classes. It's getting 16.7 at 110 average, 14.5 at 120 average. It gets 25.5 round trip from Boise to Ely NV.

These newer Mopars aren't anything like the old Mopars for that.

This kind of contrasts with the 2 door Wrangler. We have other things to go fast, the Jeep will do 100 and it doesn't feel like it should for any length of time. It's a lot more fun to do other things with it. The bigger the tires get, the slower it should go. I'm a big believer in horses for courses.

Yeah, things have changed in the last 57 years, my 69 Homolgonation (eng ser# HP 36? out of 500) Plymouth had power nothing except to the ground, including the drum brakes, at 6 mpg hwy, 3 city on minimum 100 octane.

Sponsored

 

[Traveller128]

Yeah, things have changed in the last 57 years, my 69 Homolgonation (eng ser# HP 36? out of 500) Plymouth had power nothing except to the ground, including the drum brakes, at 6 mpg hwy, 3 city on minimum 100 octane.

I had a '68 R/T Charger super track pack (4.10s, DANA 60, hemi 4-speed). It got 9 MPG, 10 on a good day. It would run 120 top end, redline for the 440 was 5500. It was a solid 12.90 car at S.I.R. (the old Seattle Internation Raceway before they changed it). It ran fine on 93, but didn't like 88. 3500 lb Borg and Beck style pressure plate, not an easy to drive traffic jam car. Of all my cars, that one was one of my favorites. If I owned it today, I'd swap the gears to the 3.54 super speedway gears and build a stroker 400 block that would hit 6000+.

I've really been thinking about another classic car, but I know what the Charger Pursuit is like to drive. It's comfy on road trips (it's a bit stiff suspended, many people complain about them) and it just runs forever smoothly getting 25+ MPG. On 65 mph roads running 70 I get 26+. When we first got it and were running the 2.65 gearing, it did 27-28 regularly on trips, running the 3.06 gears and supercharged it's 25.5. The new ones are SO MUCH better than the old ones at everything that it's hard to go back. It's quiet when you want it to be, noisier when you're on it and it sounds awesome.

If they put the 5.7 in a 2 door I'd be REALLY tempted to swap. We love our '22 but a V8 2 door could possibly swing me to a newer model. I don't like the new screen setup and dash layout, but a V8 would be a towing machine.

 

[2nd 392]

I had a '68 R/T Charger super track pack (4.10s, DANA 60, hemi 4-speed). It got 9 MPG, 10 on a good day. It would run 120 top end, redline for the 440 was 5500. It was a solid 12.90 car at S.I.R. (the old Seattle Internation Raceway before they changed it). It ran fine on 93, but didn't like 88. 3500 lb Borg and Beck style pressure plate, not an easy to drive traffic jam car. Of all my cars, that one was one of my favorites. If I owned it today, I'd swap the gears to the 3.54 super speedway gears and build a stroker 400 block that would hit 6000+.

I've really been thinking about another classic car, but I know what the Charger Pursuit is like to drive. It's comfy on road trips (it's a bit stiff suspended, many people complain about them) and it just runs forever smoothly getting 25+ MPG. On 65 mph roads running 70 I get 26+. When we first got it and were running the 2.65 gearing, it did 27-28 regularly on trips, running the 3.06 gears and supercharged it's 25.5. The new ones are SO MUCH better than the old ones at everything that it's hard to go back. It's quiet when you want it to be, noisier when you're on it and it sounds awesome.

If they put the 5.7 in a 2 door I'd be REALLY tempted to swap. We love our '22 but a V8 2 door could possibly swing me to a newer model. I don't like the new screen setup and dash layout, but a V8 would be a towing machine.

Mine was a Homolgonation 440, Just once but I broke traction and almost instantly hit 8K RPM, 6.5K was my typical go fast shift point. It shook you, the ground and whatever was nearby even at idle jumping ~ 11 - 1400. Gawd I loved that car, but minimum 100 octane. When we lost it
I couldn’t stop the detonation, gave up and traded it for a Harley. Got a 62 6 cyl Chevy PU- but it was the big 292 6 , bought and towed my 63 Jeep home with it, of course I hadn’t changed, soon a Corv-illys Jeep to satisfy this muscle car guy.

 

[Traveller128]

Mine was a Homolgonation 440, Just once but I broke traction and almost instantly hit 8K RPM, 6.5K was my typical go fast shift point. It shook you, the ground and whatever was nearby even at idle jumping ~ 11 - 1400. Gawd I loved that car, but minimum 100 octane. When we lost it
I couldn’t stop the detonation, gave up and traded it for a Harley. Got a 62 6 cyl Chevy PU- but it was the big 292 6 , bought and towed my 63 Jeep home with it, of course I hadn’t changed, soon a Corv-illys Jeep to satisfy this muscle car guy.

I've built a few GM sixes. I went to SAM in Houston and learned how to build the real race engines (drag and NASCAR style stuff). Came back here and worked in a machine shop for a couple years, lead machinist for a year. Money sucked but I like building interesting stuff. Built 235, 261 and 292 motors. There was a call for truck motors in 2010-2012, quite a number of folks were building the big sixes to put in old resto-mods for the look, twin 3 runner cast iron headers, two one barrels, 3 one barrels, etc. Fun stuff that looked cool and wasn't an LS swap. Went back to wrenching because it pays a lot better. Still built engines on the side until a couple years ago.

I've built Jeep motors a fair bit because I was also into AMC's. The 304 is such a misunderstood motor. They are just waiting for some love.

I've been thinking about another AMC just to build another 304 for it. Maybe a CJ5 project after we retire in a couple years.

 

[2nd 392]

I've built a few GM sixes. I went to SAM in Houston and learned how to build the real race engines (drag and NASCAR style stuff). Came back here and worked in a machine shop for a couple years, lead machinist for a year. Money sucked but I like building interesting stuff. Built 235, 261 and 292 motors. There was a call for truck motors in 2010-2012, quite a number of folks were building the big sixes to put in old resto-mods for the look, twin 3 runner cast iron headers, two one barrels, 3 one barrels, etc. Fun stuff that looked cool and wasn't an LS swap. Went back to wrenching because it pays a lot better. Still built engines on the side until a couple years ago.

I've built Jeep motors a fair bit because I was also into AMC's. The 304 is such a misunderstood motor. They are just waiting for some love.

I've been thinking about another AMC just to build another 304 for it. Maybe a CJ5 project after we retire in a couple years.

Late 60’s 70’s a friend had a built 292 in a 55 Chevy, it was a riot, nobody expected it to GO, surprised many, including those with SB’s that beat him….. barely. Brag they beat a 6 ? Oh yeah even a tilt glass front end. When they lost it was priceless.
I learned and used the same tactics with my Corv-illys Jeep.
He also had a plain mostly stock looking 57 Ford…. a 427 Side Oiler sleeper.

 

[LSJKU]

You know, I see a lot of folks that bought the Hellcat over the years, sell it in 3 years or so. Bunch of mopar folks I know or have met along the way went back to an SRT 392. No one seems to keep the Hellcat for anything but drag racing. You see the Hellcats at the drag strip but not the road races. Day to day driving, open road racing, they gravitate back to the 392. R/T Scat pack or T/A 392, SRT 392. Just seems to be a better daily. Will still run 170+, runs down the road well on 91 octane, doesn't need the $4400 brake job.

The SRT-392/Tremec is my choice this time. It'll be installed this year after I finish the other mod's I'm working on. The NA SRT spec's out at almost 500HP/500ft-lb, about the same as the LS/16L80 combo I had in my JKU. And that combo was a hoot, Just about perfect for all I want to do. And the SRT will be drop-in plug-n-play compared to the LS install.

There is a Chrysler dealer in Grand Junction, CO I hear that does (or used to do) those conversions, but I have not researched that one myself.

Although I've seen them installed, I cannot come up with a reason for going 700+ HP with a Hellcat, Demon or even Red Eye for day-to-day driving or even off roading. Capability and dependability were the keys I focused on. And having already owned a couple 392s (SRT & Scat), they are about as capable and dependable as they come. And (drum roll, please) it'll make my Jeep sort of "fast." But puleeese don't tell Zandcwhite that....

 

[LSJKU]

I've built a few GM sixes. I went to SAM in Houston and learned how to build the real race engines (drag and NASCAR style stuff). Came back here and worked in a machine shop for a couple years, lead machinist for a year. Money sucked but I like building interesting stuff. Built 235, 261 and 292 motors. There was a call for truck motors in 2010-2012, quite a number of folks were building the big sixes to put in old resto-mods for the look, twin 3 runner cast iron headers, two one barrels, 3 one barrels, etc. Fun stuff that looked cool and wasn't an LS swap. Went back to wrenching because it pays a lot better. Still built engines on the side until a couple years ago.

I've built Jeep motors a fair bit because I was also into AMC's. The 304 is such a misunderstood motor. They are just waiting for some love.

I've been thinking about another AMC just to build another 304 for it. Maybe a CJ5 project after we retire in a couple years.

AMCs ARE misunderstood. I had a 304 sitting on a pallet and didn't know what to do with it. Instead, I paid $50 (and an old bike) for my roommates '71 Matador Police Interceptor and took the 401/T700 out, rebuilt them both and dropped in my rolled '74 CJ5. With a bent roll bar, homemade spring-over lift, giant swampers and a Hurst ratchet shifter thrown in for fun, that Jeep was one fun mudder.

Psssst, it was fast too, but I didn't dare drive it over 65 much; I was afraid it would blow apart, or worse, blow up! Crazy days indeed.

 

[3TV]

Yes, the 3’rd try it was sudden and a lot at ~170, I oh F’d as it felt like the the front wheels were off the ground and was at ~172/3 before I got out of it… Enough, that’s how fast it will go. … dumb ass kid, lucky to be alive along with my buddy with me ….or in jail, did it on hwy 99….
It all started when he wouldn’t quit bugging me to race his 57 Chevy so I asked him for a $20, stuck it with my 20 halfway in the glovebox and “if you get them before I hit 4’th gear you win” …. He never bugged me to race again. I never went anywhere near that fast again either….
I bought the beer with his $20.

between 1977 and 2015 with the GC capped at 160 mph I never had any vehicle capable of speeds remotely close even if I had the inclination anyway.
edit- it just dawned on me a Wrangler with the speed limiter now disabled might be the 3’rd fastest vehicle I have owned, remarkable.

If you've been in the 170s you've got me beat. The Challenger I posted a video of before topped out at 163 and a Yamaha FZ1 bike I owned topped out at 165. I never made it to the 170s and probably won't at this point.

One particular "sensation of speed" that will always remain in my mind though, was when riding in a friend's sand rail. It had a 1000 HP blown V8 and King external bypass coilovers with 30" front wheel travel and 36" rear wheel travel. He took me for a ride at some sand dunes. When I got in the passenger seat I wondered why the grab handle was so close to the seat. When he gave it full throttle across a long uphill section of 3' high sand whoops it pressed me back in the seat so hard that I couldn't reach the grab handle. It had enough power, suspension, and traction with the huge paddles on the rear that it carried the front tires the whole quarter mile up that hill. I remember hearing someone screaming part way up the hill, and after a second of so I realized it was me that was screaming because I was having SO MUCH FUN! That sand rail was completely awesome.

 

[2nd 392]

If you've been in the 170s you've got me beat. The Challenger I posted a video of before topped out at 163 and a Yamaha FZ1 bike I owned topped out at 165. I never made it to the 170s and probably won't at this point.

One particular "sensation of speed" that will always remain in my mind though, was when riding in a friend's sand rail. It had a 1000 HP blown V8 and King external bypass coilovers with 30" front wheel travel and 36" rear wheel travel. He took me for a ride at some sand dunes. When I got in the passenger seat I wondered why the grab handle was so close to the seat. When he gave it full throttle across a long uphill section of 3' high sand whoops it pressed me back in the seat so hard that I couldn't reach the grab handle. It had enough power, suspension, and traction with the huge paddles on the rear that it carried the front tires the whole quarter mile up that hill. I remember hearing someone screaming part way up the hill, and after a second of so I realized it was me that was screaming because I was having SO MUCH FUN! That sand rail was completely awesome.

Damn- and I thought a friend’s 911S built dune buggy was a thrill ride.

 

[jhalla920]

This is not a personal attack on you just on the concept.

If you think any Jeep Wrangler is fast (even just in a straight line) without a motor swap you haven’t driven a real sports car with any real power or anything from the true muscle car era. In comparison a Wrangler has no speed, no handling, and even worse aerodynamics. I think the saying that comes to mind, when someone talks about a Jeep like this, is polishing a turd.

I think you need to go test drive some modern sports cars and then hop back into your Jeep and feel the sad reality creep over you. Quickest best handling car I drove was a Dinan chipped twin turbo 911 putting out 450 horsepower. Hop out of that, change your chonies, and hop into a wrangler and it will feel like a riding lawn mower. Or don’t and continue to live in a happy, happy dream world.

“Change your chonies”. Good one, lol.

 

[3TV]

Damn- and I thought a friend’s 911S built dune buggy was a thrill ride.

And it wasn't screams of fear, more like screams of, "YEAH, YEAH, YEAH."

 

[Mudduck]

Alas, @Tredsdert is no longer with us…

I’ll miss his bizarre sense of jeep modification/destruction.

Yeah, hes a cool dude and funny as all hell. Talked to him earlier today, he is feeling better with less background noise.

 

[FiveBoro]

Dakar JL. Check out that shit lever extension!

https://www.rld-autos.com/fr/blog/article/81-jeep-wrangler-jl-20l-turbo-rallye-raid-dakar.html

 

[LSJKU]

Dakar JL. Check out that shit lever extension!

https://www.rld-autos.com/fr/blog/article/81-jeep-wrangler-jl-20l-turbo-rallye-raid-dakar.html

Okaaay... it's called a "shit lever?"

 

[basiblaster]

Sorta hijacking this to ask:

what would I have to do to help my jeep take bigger hits?

im looking to build a 2 door for 24 hours of Appalachia, there is plenty of technical terrain and crawling, but I want to help my jeep deal with hitting rocks and crosscuts at higher speeds then the average crawler

Sponsored