The "hate" on Jeeps + Speed

[Remorseless]

If @Terrymo is an old timer what the heck am I? A corpse?

@Terrymo Don't you dare post the creepy corpse rising out of the ground or I'm not talking to you anymore!

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[Terrymo]

If @Terrymo is an old timer what the heck am I? A corpse?

@Terrymo Don't you dare post the creepy corpse rising out of the ground or I'm not talking to you anymore!

That trains coming

 

[James Westfall]

You've never run rock gardens at speed? Time trials with buddies on 7+ rated trails? I'll take the JLUR over any other stock rig at king of the hammers? Rock races are a thing even if you think that's the only place that the wrangler is better than it's competitors.

I think what this comes down to is that "at speed" means something very different to you then it does to me. You aren't running what I consider rock gardens at anything I consider speed in any vehicle that isn't an aircraft.

EDIT - after thinking about this I think I can sum it up with this - if you have to narrowly qualify the conditions under which a given vehicle is "fast" (like "yeah well it's fast when rock crawling off-road" or "it's the fastest vehicle with a SFA") then it's not fast.

 

[AskBin]

Why is it that a lot of people somewhat throw "hate" or "shade" on people who want a Jeep, but also want to drive fast? I've seen it in this forum, on YouTube, all over the internet. I get it, most Jeeps are used for exploring the scenery of the trails, and I am all for that. However, when the Jeep was originally created it was used to transport soldiers over any terrain, and as fast as possible. Key words there: any terrain and as fast as possible. I've dug deep into the "prerunner" scene and can say without a doubt that if a big ole boxy truck can do it, so can a Jeep Wrangler. FOX advertised their 3.0 Race shocks in a stock Jeep Wrangler, drifting and kicking up dirt like any other prerunner. There are a plethora of Gladiator owners who are slamming the dirt roads at high speeds, comparable to even a WRX or Tacoma. Cassie Currie, Debertti, KebbeTech, all of these are some examples of Jeeps going to high speeds and yes they are modified but they have the potential even with limited or minimal mods. I am not saying that a Jeep Wrangler Sport is going to be a podium finish in a rallycross, but at the same time, its not always about the car but the driver. So, yes a Jeep Wrangler *could* enter and win a rallycross. Sure independent suspension is better, but solid axles aren't impossible for fast offroad (or even on-road) travel.
Basically, TL;DR:
From what I have seen in my life, and online, and in person - The Jeep Wrangler is the vehicle that *can* go anywhere, and, in most cases, do anything. It can be a prerunner, and enter rallycross AND can overland or take the trail slow and explore.

Just my thoughts - no hate , no wanting to argue, just wanting to explain why Speed + Jeeps aren't a bad thing.

a jeep at this point in time is probably the worst choice to go fast. when i say worst im not saying bad im saying nearly every single option out there for a modern vehicle will be better off desert running at speed (bronco, ranger, f150 raptor, ram TRX). see rally cars too. the only performance vehicle i can see with a solid front axle are dakar semi trucks (other than tatra for obvious reasons if you know tatras) but theyre also still using leaf springs upfront, and thats more of a weight class and durability reason.

solid axle front suspention is fantastic for low speed articulation, durability, and simplicity. anything else? its dinosaur technology outclassed by pretty much everything

you say youve dug into prerunners but completly failed to mention every single competent prerunner or trophy truck uses extremely long travel independent front suspention. dual A arm IFS is a far FAR better design for performance and handling at speed, on or offroad. even McFearson is a better design for handling and performance.

original jeeps were designed during a time when you need to take a 1/4 ton troop carrier over some stones, they werent hardcore wheeling. ontop of that "as fast as possible" is like 25kph, they arent perticulatly known for eye watering speeds and performance. theyre known for being incredibly capable for the time. weve progressed significantly from the time where a willys was considered capable in its stock form.

i think alot of old heads also overblow "military grade" most of the time. anything military grade is normally speced by the cheapest possible bidder, to do the job its designed to do. a truck that came in a crate and could have the motor taken out and fixed by a 19 year old with 0 mechanical knowledge is more important than any sort of actual intended performance.

hate comes from, why would you chose the last 1/4 ton solid front axle vehicle for speed on or offroad? every single other possible option will be better than a jeep for that application. its just illogical. and this is coming from a diesel wrangler owner. if you want to put down actual times or go actually fast speeds literally anythign else made for that purpose will serve you better.

that being said, i love that my wranglers one of the queckest vehicles ive owned.puts a smile on my face ripping the back tires loose at any oppertunity and keeping up with my buddys tuned golf in a refridgerator. makes lower speeds feel fast, 80 in this is a different story than 100+ in a raptor. its fun because its stupid to me, but thats a side effect, i wanted to rock crawl and own a diesel for the benefits that has. kinda like how a tw200 is a nimble little ripper in the twisties accidentally

 

[Terrymo]

I think what this comes down to is that "at speed" means something very different to you then it does to me. You aren't running what I consider rock gardens at anything I consider speed in any vehicle that isn't an aircraft.

I think of speed with a physics definition. Others are talking about the sensation of speed, or vehicle A is faster than Vehicle B in an identical setting. A debate where both people mean different things is pointless.

 

[Zandcwhite]

a jeep at this point in time is probably the worst choice to go fast. when i say worst im not saying bad im saying nearly every single option out there for a modern vehicle will be better off desert running at speed (bronco, ranger, f150 raptor, ram TRX). see rally cars too. the only performance vehicle i can see with a solid front axle are dakar semi trucks (other than tatra for obvious reasons if you know tatras) but theyre also still using leaf springs upfront, and thats more of a weight class and durability reason.

solid axle front suspention is fantastic for low speed articulation, durability, and simplicity. anything else? its dinosaur technology outclassed by pretty much everything

you say youve dug into prerunners but completly failed to mention every single competent prerunner or trophy truck uses extremely long travel independent front suspention. dual A arm IFS is a far FAR better design for performance and handling at speed, on or offroad. even McFearson is a better design for handling and performance.

original jeeps were designed during a time when you need to take a 1/4 troop carrier over some stones, they werent hardcore wheeling. ontop of that "as fast as possible" is like 25kph, they arent perticulatly known for eye watering speeds and performance. theyre known for being incredibly capable for the time. weve progressed significantly from the time where a willys was considered capable in its stock form.

i think alot of old heads also overblow "military grade" most of the time. anythign military grade is normally speced by the cheapest possible bidder, to do the job its designed to do. a truck that came in a crate and could have the motor taken out and fixed by a 19 year old with 0 mechanical knowledge is more important than any sort of actual intended performance.

hate comes from, why would you chose the last 1/4 solid front axle vehicle for speed on or offroad? every single other possible option will be better than a jeep for that application. its just illogical. and this is coming from a diesel wrangler owner. if you want to put down actual times or go actually fast speeds literally anythign else made for that purpose will serve you better.

that being said, i love that my wranglers one of the queckest vehicles ive owned.puts a smile on my face ripping the back tires loose at any oppertunity and keeping up with my buddys tuned golf in a refridgerator. makes lower speeds feel fast, 80 in this is a different story than 100+ in a raptor. its fun because its stupid to me, but thats a side effect, i wanted to rock crawl and own a diesel for the benefits that has. kinda like how a tw200 is a nimble little ripper in the twisties accidentally

Almost all rockbouncers still run solid axles and the IFS rigs have nothing in common with the short arm Honda civic IFS on a Bronco, tacoma, etc. Add 6" to those A arms like a raptor or trx and then it's good. 7" of travel just isn't enough to absorb bumps and jumps in a 5k pound rig. Sure it works in 3k pound rally cars, but they are smooth bottomed and the chassis slapping the ground picks up where the suspension leaves off.

 

[Reflektr]

I’m sure someone would disagree, but my JLU doesn’t actually feel like it handles that bad considering what it is. It took some getting used to at first, but after driving it a few months and getting it broken in, it doesn’t seem as poochy as it once did. That being said, when I hop in my truck after driving the Wrangler awhile, it feels like about like a dragster.

Try looking at it this way. It’s kind of like taking the pleasantly-plump girl home from the bar. It can still be a lot of fun if you just close your eyes and use both hands.

 

[Ol’ Timey Manual SWB Guy]

My state has a formula for what’s legal on road:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/massachusetts/540-CMR-6-05

It’s very likely that a true prerunner would qualify (because it’s so wide) and that a WWII Gen. George Patton GP would also qualify (because it’s so short). But a highly modified, lifted, modern JL might not pass its annual inspection.

Just to answer the OP. It’s not hate, it’s “moment.”

In my state, like I said, 2200 is the magic ratio.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I think of speed with a physics definition. Others are talking about the sensation of speed, or vehicle A is faster than Vehicle B in an identical setting. A debate where both people mean different things is pointless.

The OP literally stated off road speed. The physics of traveling through Johnson Valley are far different than the freeway which is far different than Laguna seca which is far different than the drag strip. If you're simply looking at the distance/ time as in true speed, context still matters. Is it only top speed that matters? What is considered fast? 150? 200? 230+ like a Bugatti? Track fast? Drag strip fast? A top fuel dragster would be slower around Laguna seca than any stock street vehicle, must be slow?

 

[Wbino]

Alas, @Tredsdert is no longer with us…

I’ll miss his bizarre sense of jeep modification/destruction.

What happened?

 

[Remorseless]

All the dick measurers in this thread right now

 

[Zandcwhite]

My state has a formula for what’s legal on road:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/massachusetts/540-CMR-6-05

It’s very likely that a true prerunner would qualify (because it’s so wide) and that a WWII Gen. George Patton GP would also qualify (because it’s so short). But a highly modified, lifted, modern JL might not pass its annual inspection.

Just to answer the OP. It’s not hate, it’s “moment.”

In my state, like I said, 2200 is the magic ratio.

I'm guessing that's not enforced much as the jlu's 118.5 and 62.9 give a maximum lift of 3.38"... including the lift from oversized tires. 35s and a 2" lift would barely make it. The JL would fair far worse at 2.75" max. 2" lift and 34s and that's it? It also states the factory track width so a prerunner build would be out unless you stated with a raptor or trx? Glad I don't live in MA, the 3.5" lift and 39s on the JLUR are about double the legal limit there at 6.5"+ over stock.

 

[jeepingib]

If @Terrymo is an old timer what the heck am I? A corpse?

@Terrymo Don't you dare post the creepy corpse rising out of the ground or I'm not talking to you anymore!

Sorry Grandpa, we were pretty sure this time.

 

[Terrymo]

The OP literally stated off road speed. The physics of traveling through Johnson Valley are far different than the freeway which is far different than Laguna seca which is far different than the drag strip. If you're simply looking at the distance/ time as in true speed, context still matters. Is it only top speed that matters? What is considered fast? 150? 200? 230+ like a Bugatti? Track fast? Drag strip fast? A top fuel dragster would be slower around Laguna seca than any stock street vehicle, must be slow?

My older brother who was very intelligent loved to argue for sport. I learned long ago that both sides repeating the same thing stopped being a discussion at some point and usually was about his need to win an argument, He could argue so convincing that if you started to agree with him he would start arguing your original side just to keep things going, I usually went outside and played. He always looked a little disappointed.

 

[Whaler27]

I’ve seen guys use a ratchet as a hammer to drive small nails, and a screwdriver to pry studs apart. Both can work that way in a pinch, but I prefer using a hammer and pry bar for those jobs — and I could never argue that the ratchet is a perfectly sensible hammer.

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