Ecodiesel Eco-nomics & Issues

[00 Trans Ram]

Oh, and check out the mileage while towing. 17mpg!!

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[AZ-Chris]

I really don't understand why people seem to be so argumentative about the high oil temperature problem . . . clearly many people just haven't paid much attention to the circumstances where the problem arises. For overheating to take place, all five of the following conditions are typically present.

1. High Engine load (due to overall weight and/or towing)
2. Higher elevations (generally in excess of 1K ft)
3. Mountain road grades generally greater than 7% for prolonged periods (5-mile long pulls are not uncommon in AZ, and the highway from Camp Verde to Flagstaff is more than 20-miles at 7% grade in excess of 3k ft elevation).
4. maintaining posted speed limits (often greater than 75 mph - more typical of the western US)
5. High ambient temperatures

I'll bite.

Towing 5500lb boat/trailer, August in SE LA (average 93*, 93% humidity), at highway speeds. Here are my normal/towing temps. Normal in portrait, towing in landscape.

I suggest, next time use the Off Road Gauge page where most of the relevant information is shown on one screen. Next, you fail to show what your elevation in Louisiana . . . isn't New Orleans near, or even below sea level?

 

[00 Trans Ram]

I really don't understand why people seem to be so argumentative about the high oil temperature problem . . . clearly many people just haven't paid much attention to the circumstances where the problem arises. For overheating to take place, all five of the following conditions are typically present.

1. High Engine load (due to overall weight and/or towing)
2. Higher elevations (generally in excess of 1K ft)
3. Mountain road grades generally greater than 7% for prolonged periods (5-mile long pulls are not uncommon in AZ, and the highway from Camp Verde to Flagstaff is more than 20-miles at 7% grade in excess of 3k ft elevation).
4. maintaining posted speed limits (often greater than 75 mph - more typical of the western US)
5. High ambient temperatures


I suggest, next time use the Off Road Gauge page where most of the relevant information is shown on one screen. Next, you fail to show what your elevation in Louisiana . . . isn't New Orleans near, or even below sea level?

Oh, I'm definitely at sea level. That helps quite a bit. But, the humidity should hurt.

Also, the biggest grade that I ever encounter is 3*. And that's the boat ramp. Biggest grade on-road is 1.5*.

I'll have to look at that screen. Not sure I've paid attention to it!

 

[AZ-Chris]

Oh, I'm definitely at sea level. That helps quite a bit. But, the humidity should hurt.

Humidity???? What's that? Certainly not anything folks in mountain time zone ever think about!

 

[Austintatious]

I really don't understand why people seem to be so argumentative about the high oil temperature problem . . .

It's not argumentative to point out that perhaps it's not a problem unless five or more design parameters like you outlined are exceeded?

Payload capacity of a diesel JL/JT ranges from 1233 to 1351 pounds. Put 350 pounds on the hitch, 400 pounds of passengers, 250 pounds on the roof and 300 pounds of gear in the back and you're there. Now throw in a winch blocking airflow to the radiator, high ambient heat, oversize tires, climbing grades while pulling a load and other factors like you mentioned and why would anyone be surprised to see high engine/oil temps?

I can make any vehicle overheat given the (wrong) circumstances.

 

[wfo9]

One other thing to consider if purchasing the diesel is how much time you spend at idle and low engine loads (like slow speed trail use).. That is often a very problematic use case for them. They really need some load/heat for the emissions to work correctly and to offer a long service life. Obviously if the emissions systems could be deleted... that problem goes away.. To be clear I'm talking long term not a year or two of this type of use intermittently..


As far as operating diesels in the mountains go.. Yep they all run much hotter in those conditions unless they have massive cooling systems.. Just the nature of a diesel producing lots of tq in thin air.. High output, high altitude, with slower speeds is sort of the worst case scenario. If you have ever driven a big rig in the mountains you know how loud the fans are.. the fan noise will dwarf the motor usually. It takes a very large cooling system to keep them cool in those conditions, so it makes sense there would be potential problems in those conditions (especially towing). The JL and JT just don't have a large packaging footprint for cooling.. The RAM would be a different scenario.

 

[AZ-Chris]

Many people have experienced the high oil temperature problem while operating their vehicle within the vehicle limitations expressed by Jeep in their manual . . . however, the Jeep manual does not make any allowances for road grade, elevation, or ambient temperature. Certainly anyone would reasonably expect to be able to hold posted speed limits . . . yet the EcoDiesel will derate, while the other engine options do not (or at least have not been reported to do so).

 

[AZ-Chris]

The only temperature issue I've experienced while wheeling was my power steering pump overheating on the trail. I was able to resolve this issue using the "cooldown mode" provided by the Tazer JL mini which forces the engine cooling fan to run full-speed

I've yet to have a high oil temperature issue when rock crawling.

 

[treillw]

If I get the diesel, first thing I'm going to do is fill it with rocks and head over the Beartooth pass.

 

[john adams]

I got the diesel because it seemed more planted (like the 4xe) and more fun because of the giddy-up. I am unlikely to ever tow anything except to help a friend. I travel to the Adirondacks but those are low mountains and also cool. I may go with 35s someday but never 37s and I'm in no hurry for the 35s.

Unless you live if the very high elevations and also high heat and also are towing and probably also running 37s, the overheating limp issues seem irrelevant and overdiscussed here. Not crapping on the people discussing them but I suspect, though I may be wrong, that 90% of diesel buyers will never see limp mode. That said, this board is probably more populated by "power" users who tow, have big tires, and are rocking the mountain life.

 

[AZ-Chris]

Listen, the engine oil temperature issue is just that . . . an "issue"

It's not a show stopper unless you really intend to tow in the mountains (as I had plans to do). I love the EcoDiesel in all other aspects and have no intention to part ways with it any time soon . . . and still hold out hope that Bullet Proof Diesel will provide us with a good solution.

 

[Austintatious]

I got the diesel because it seemed more planted (like the 4xe) and more fun because of the giddy-up. I am unlikely to ever tow anything except to help a friend. I travel to the Adirondacks but those are low mountains and also cool. I may go with 35s someday but never 37s and I'm in no hurry for the 35s.

Unless you live if the very high elevations and also high heat and also are towing and probably also running 37s, the overheating limp issues seem irrelevant and overdiscussed here. Not crapping on the people discussing them but I suspect, though I may be wrong, that 90% of diesel buyers will never see limp mode. That said, this board is probably more populated by "power" users who tow, have big tires, and are rocking the mountain life.

True. I had a 2016 RAM with the Ecodiesel and the forums were/are filled with people complaining about high oil temps. They tend to be power users (towing trailers cross country for a living, etc).

I just checked the JK user forums and people are still asking what a "normal" temp is for a JK. I've seen my 3.6L reach 245 but then I removed the winch and grill inserts and it hasn't gotten that hot since. Thought about a radiator upgrade but......naw.

Back to the OP's concerns - I'm honestly not worried about my JLUSD overheating - I spent a good part of last summer trudging thru very deep and soft sand for miles and miles on PINS and it never got close to overheating.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Many people have experienced the high oil temperature problem while operating their vehicle within the vehicle limitations expressed by Jeep in their manual . . . however, the Jeep manual does not make any allowances for road grade, elevation, or ambient temperature. Certainly anyone would reasonably expect to be able to hold posted speed limits . . . yet the EcoDiesel will derate, while the other engine options do not (or at least have not been reported to do so).

My old JK with the 3.6 derated on me coming up to the Eisenhower tunnel on I70 one hot summer day. I wasn't even towing. And I'm not alone in having this happen.

While maybe not as common as the diesel, derating happens when you're really pushing a modern Wrangler on a steep mountain grade on a hot day regardless of the engine you're running.

 

[AZ-Chris]

If that were a JK in stock configuration, I'd be upset about that . . .

 

[grimmjeeper]

If that were a JK in stock configuration, I'd be upset about that . . .

Not stock. Still. It was a 2 door. Less weight than a stock 4 door all told.

The cooling system in the JK and JL leaves a lot to be desired across the board.

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