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Do you think Jeep/Stilantis will also be doing this as well?

MKC JL

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This is half the problem with society. Someone sees a YouTube video and accepts it as the truth.
So your saying it's not true? Curious as to what you have to refute what Toyota stated.
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UniqueUserName

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On a similar vein, I have a 22 JLUR on order and have been trying to find a way that I can remotely unlock the doors through my phone so I don't have to drag that giant assed fob around with me when I go fishing or hunting. The only options I'm finding appear to involve purchasing some kind of subscription (SiriusXM Guardian or Jeep Connect). Am I missing something or is Jeep pushing subscriptions for basic capabilities that really shouldn't need them?

I can remote unlock or start my 2018 Ford truck from my phone without a subscription, whether I have cell service or not.
 

UniqueUserName

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This is half the problem with society. Someone sees a YouTube video and accepts it as the truth.
The other half of the problem is people jumping to conclusions and taking positions without making any effort whatsoever to research and validate whether claims made are factual or not. We see the behavior daily from politicians and "news" programs.

Do you care to refute what was in the video or the underlying articles, which prompted it? We might all benefit from your knowledge, gained through your independent research on the matter.
 

Mikeoso

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Option #1. Government keeps an eye on business, and regulates things...legislated fairness to the consumer, safety, etc etc.

Option #2. Government keeps its hands off and allows free enterprise and individual responsibility.

Want some of each? Who chooses which and how much?
 

UniqueUserName

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Option #1. Government keeps an eye on business, and regulates things...legislated fairness to the consumer, safety, etc etc.

Option #2. Government keeps its hands off and allows free enterprise and individual responsibility.

Want some of each? Who chooses which and how much?
I prefer to vote with my wallet on such matters.
 

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Option #1. Government keeps an eye on business, and regulates things...legislated fairness to the consumer, safety, etc etc.

Option #2. Government keeps its hands off and allows free enterprise and individual responsibility.

Want some of each? Who chooses which and how much?
Well, without getting into politics, the reality is that a company cannot sell you one thing and then take it away or decide to charge you more for it. Regardless of the approach we take to government regulations, I think we can all agree on that basic principle.

So, if for example, a company sells a car saying it includes proximity lock/unlock but then later says you have to pay more to use that feature, it’s breach of contract at the very least (if not downright fraud). That’s not a matter so much if regulation but of basic contract law. The only way they could do that is if they made it clear up front that they may start charging for something later on.
 

Mikeoso

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Mikeoso

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Well, without getting into politics, the reality is that a company cannot sell you one thing and then take it away or decide to charge you more for it. Regardless of the approach we take to government regulations, I think we can all agree on that basic principle.

So, if for example, a company sells a car saying it includes proximity lock/unlock but then later says you have to pay more to use that feature, it’s breach of contract at the very least (if not downright fraud). That’s not a matter so much if regulation but of basic contract law. The only way they could do that is if they made it clear up front that they may start charging for something later on.
Yup. Trouble is that basic contract law IS government regulation, especially when it's in the area of a contract between a business and a consumer. Any attempt to legislate fairness or principle is going to step on somebody's toes. e.g.....lemon laws. Came out of the same basis.

Just as a point of historical interest: the very FIRST US law dealing with finance was an article in the US Constitution (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4). Made bankruptcy subject to federal control, not states. Why? Prevented states setting up as havens for runaway debtors. Regulation...in whose interest?
 

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What does everyone expect? You’re going to whine when capitalism is being exercised and have to pay and whine if the government puts checks and balances in place that allegedly cause rising prices.
 

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I can't see how this would be legal. These are options that you paid for when you bought the car. They can't turn around and say "Oh, you actually want to use those features that you already paid for? You need to give us more money then." Sorry, unless it is clearly stated up front, it would not be legal.

The only thing I could potentially see them getting away with charging for is integration though a phone app, lock/unlock, remote start, etc... With that type of functionality the manufacturer needs to maintain a server that is the communication link between your phone and the car. This would be providing a service, which they would have a right to charge for.

With remote start from a key fob there is no service provided. The fob is just a little radio transmitter, and there's a receiver in the car. Unless it was clearly sold as a service at the original point of sale they can't charge you for use.
With Toyota , you can start the car from anywhere , lock it, unlock it etc all from the app from any location on your phone around the world, that is other than doing it from the FOB itself.This would be beneficial to those who might not have the range (apartments, underground garages etc etc) This subscription as i understood it is for the APP itself thru Toyotas Connected Services.The keyfob itself will still work.
I have a 2021 4runner Offroad Premium and has all these services EXCEPT the remote start which it did not come with .I was contemplating doing an aftermarket remote start install myself before this whole story came out.
Personally, after the 3 year trial period i wont be renewing any of the services except the SOS call.The dynamic built in navigation would still work but wont be with all the live updates etc and the other services are meaningless.
 

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On a similar vein, I have a 22 JLUR on order and have been trying to find a way that I can remotely unlock the doors through my phone so I don't have to drag that giant assed fob around with me when I go fishing or hunting. The only options I'm finding appear to involve purchasing some kind of subscription (SiriusXM Guardian or Jeep Connect). Am I missing something or is Jeep pushing subscriptions for basic capabilities that really shouldn't need them?

I can remote unlock or start my 2018 Ford truck from my phone without a subscription, whether I have cell service or not.
If it's the same for the '22 as it is for my '20 - you get 12 months of free service after which time there is a monthly fee. I seem to remember that it's in the $13/month range but I'm not sure as I didn't subscribe. The remote start function on my F150, like yours, is also free even after four years so the subscription fee on the Wrangler caught me off guard. I wouldn't have optioned it if I had done enough research and realized the difference.
 

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We have a 2020 4Runner and had the free app operated remote start for the first year then let it run out. Since then I have found out that simple pressing the lock button on the key-fob three times will remote start the vehicle.
There is no start button on the key-fob and no mention whatsoever about that feature in the owners manual.
For the majority of the owners they wouldn’t even know that trick worked so if Toyota cancelled it are they really taking anything away? It would be a completely different story if one bought the new vehicle and either paid extra for the remote start or was under the impression the vehicle came with it as noted in the paperwork but in this case neither existed so I see no issue with Toyota changing it.
 

Vinman

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With Toyota , you can start the car from anywhere , lock it, unlock it etc all from the app from any location on your phone around the world, that is other than doing it from the FOB itself.This would be beneficial to those who might not have the range (apartments, underground garages etc etc) This subscription as i understood it is for the APP itself thru Toyotas Connected Services.The keyfob itself will still work.
I have a 2021 4runner Offroad Premium and has all these services EXCEPT the remote start which it did not come with .I was contemplating doing an aftermarket remote start install myself before this whole story came out.
Personally, after the 3 year trial period i wont be renewing any of the services except the SOS call.The dynamic built in navigation would still work but wont be with all the live updates etc and the other services are meaningless.
Try pressing the lock button three times on your key-fob, hold the button for about 3-4 seconds on the 3rd press and see if the vehicle starts. Ours does that but it usually takes a few attempts to get it to work.
 

JLUW75

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Well not really clickbait, to update.

After 10 years and was labeled as misleading.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service
It looks like Toyota is just worried about the first owner and is shafting their second owner. With more and more features like navigation, remote start, and other electronic features going to a subscription-based offering, the first owners will get duped into buying cars with features that will stop working one day and most will not know what is going on. Some owners will renew or purchase them but most will get upset and feel betrayed and will sell their cars. This will lead to a reduction in resale value for these cars since now they would be missing some key features that the cars were sold new with. they are making them 10 years to not piss off the first owners but get ready for a reduction of the free trial periods to 3 years or 36k mikes or even 1 year. It is a dangerous short-sighted game Toyota is playing.
 
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JLUW75

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What would stop customers from going to the local audio installers and buying a remote start aftermarket?
But that would seriously chap my ass if anybody did that.
Think about things the things they may charge a subscription for...what about the enhanced cruise control and all the safety features?
with encrypted ECMs and CPUs, it will get harder and harder to mess with the cars. Once the system detects a foreign system or changed load, it will trigger a malfunction or just throw a code and that could cause you to fail emission check like some states are implementing now. so I believe the automakers are colluding with lawmakers to box us in. They take away features or switch to subscription-based offerings and the state won't let you alter your vehicle in any way. You will own nothing and will be happy! that's what we are slowly marching toward.
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